Circumcision anyone?

WhoNut · Post by **WhoNut** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:02 am

In this world there are many things that I don't understand, this is a biggy....

Why would anybody circumcise a child?

Let me say that I am, but not for a good reason. My parents did it because their friends did, the doctor expected it, and the insurance paid for it.

My kids are not, I didn't see the point. If you have a religious reason for it, please explain. And don't give me any health reasons for it, they mean nothing to me.

What's your take on it?

HalfLifer · Post by **HalfLifer** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:03 am

Ill feel bad for your boys when their girlfriend/wife decides to give him some

On a more serious note, its just socially correct. Circumcision is like the thing to do.

TheAntipop · Post by **TheAntipop** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:03 am

it can cause infection later in life and case trouble for ppl.

Immortal · Post by **Immortal** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:06 am

oh oh.. me me me... I saw a whole show on circumsition on discovery.....

tehre's good and bad.... cons and pros.. it all depends..

well.. some for religious purpose.. jews I think..

some say it's cleaner.. prevent blah blah from happening..

but not cutting it gives u more sensitive skin.. 3x..

and extra pleasure during sex..

after the whole show.... it's all up the the person... there's no outweighing each over the other..

HalfLifer · Post by **HalfLifer** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:07 am

3x the pleasure? Geeez, its already good enough to make ya pass out

CoolJ · Post by **CoolJ** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:07 am

ALOT Of people are. Id feel embarassed if I wasnt..........

But thats just me.

Merc · Post by **Merc** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:10 am

Omg if i wasnt I would shoot myslef, it would look like a doggy ****.

It would be hide and seek.

Anyone that is nasty i dont wanna think about it.

WhoNut · Post by **WhoNut** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:13 am

Originally posted by CoolJ
ALOT Of people are. Id feel embarassed if I wasnt..........

But thats just me.

The numbers are coming around. Last I saw, the numbers for the U.S. were around 60% (circumcised)/40% (intact) for the latest year studied.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:13 am

Originally posted by WhoNut
In this world there are many things that I don't understand, this is a biggy....

Why would anybody circumcise a child?

Let me say that I am, but not for a good reason. My parents did it because their friends did, the doctor expected it, and the insurance paid for it.

My kids are not, I didn't see the point. If you have a religious reason for it, please explain. And don't give me any health reasons for it, they mean nothing to me.

What's your take on it?

Are you going to teach them how to clean the area? And yes the Bible does call for circumcision.

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:16 am

Originally posted by WhoNut
In this world there are many things that I don't understand, this is a biggy....

Why would anybody circumcise a child?

Let me say that I am, but not for a good reason. My parents did it because their friends did, the doctor expected it, and the insurance paid for it.

My kids are not, I didn't see the point. If you have a religious reason for it, please explain. And don't give me any health reasons for it, they mean nothing to me.

What's your take on it?

well don't give him the multiple health reasons and social reasons that he is being too selfish to think about.

how they will feel in the locker room ,

teens can be pretty cruel.

how do you think a kid will feel the first time he asks why he looks different than daddy.

and when he is 13 in middle school and he comes home crying because all the girls found out.

don't do it to them dude,YOU DID NOT HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT.

don't be selfish because you don't understand.

WhoNut · Post by **WhoNut** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:18 am

Originally posted by uod2001

Are you going to teach them how to clean the area?

Yeah, just like I teach him to wipe his arse, cut his toenails and wash his hair. It's a fact of life.

And yes the Bible does call for circumcision. [/QUOTE]

Do you know why?

TheAntipop · Post by **TheAntipop** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:21 am

i know a guy whose not everybody found out in the 8th grade and here it is 11th and he still hasnt lived it down. he does a party trick called balloon that from what i hear (i havnt seen it) is pretty interesting.

HalfLifer · Post by **HalfLifer** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:21 am

Originally posted by crazyman

well don't give him the multiple health reasons and social reasons that he is being too selfish to think about.

how they will feel in the locker room ,

teens can be pretty cruel.

how do you think a kid will feel the first time he asks why he looks different than daddy.

and when he is 13 in middle school and he comes home crying because all the girls found out.

don't do it to them dude,YOU DID NOT HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT.

don't be selfish because you don't understand.

Exactly.

Whonut, just get it done man! They'll thank ya later in life1

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:22 am

Originally posted by WhoNut

Yeah, just like I teach him to wipe his arse, cut his toenails and wash his hair. It's a fact of life.

And yes the Bible does call for circumcision.

Do you know why? [/QUOTE]

my parents did not do it because of the stinkin' bible and I did not do my sons circ because of it either!

it was for other reasons non-religious,but you said you did'nt want to hear that!

CoolJ · Post by **CoolJ** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:23 am

I wonder if woman would perfer that

If people found out here, specially girls, I dont think anyone would let the kid live it down either.

Bababooey · Post by **Bababooey** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:26 am

Originally posted by crazyman

well don't give him the multiple health reasons and social reasons that he is being too selfish to think about.

how they will feel in the locker room ,

teens can be pretty cruel.

how do you think a kid will feel the first time he asks why he looks different than daddy.

and when he is 13 in middle school and he comes home crying because all the girls found out.

don't do it to them dude,YOU DID NOT HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT.

don't be selfish because you don't understand.

Well said CM. I myself am cut but my cousin wasn't until he decided to go through with it at sixteen because of all the reasons you listed.

HalfLifer · Post by **HalfLifer** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:28 am

Like I said...the time its gonna get....uhh..for PG-13 references..."vacuumed"..LOL...your kid will be embarrassed!

WhoNut · Post by **WhoNut** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:29 am

Originally posted by crazyman

don't be selfish because you don't understand.

Umm, he has 5 male cousins that haven't had it done. About half the guys at work didn't do it to their sons when born. In fact, the western region of the U.S. had more children that left the hospital without the procedure than with last year.

Like I said, the numbers are changing.

One could argue the selfishness of stealing a foreskin due to lack of enlightenment.

HalfLifer · Post by **HalfLifer** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:29 am

Just do it...Im serious...

TheAntipop · Post by **TheAntipop** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:31 am

your kids WILL get made fun of and they WILL hate you for it. and if they cant remember having it they cant be mad at you for taking it away so you better do it while their young or you'll regret it.

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:32 am

Originally posted by WhoNut

Umm, he has 5 male cousins that haven't had it done. About half the guys at work didn't do it to their sons when born. In fact, the western region of the U.S. had more children that left the hospital without the procedure than with last year.

Like I said, the numbers are changing.

One could argue the selfishness of stealing a foreskin due to lack of enlightenment.

well dude! what are you asking for then?

you seem to already have your mind made up..like was said,,,then do it!

how does the mother feel about it?

CoolJ · Post by **CoolJ** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:37 am

Originally posted by HalfLifer
Just do it...Im serious...

WhoNut · Post by **WhoNut** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:37 am

Originally posted by crazyman

how does the mother feel about it?

She convinced me to leave them natural. She presented the facts, we talked and left them alone.

I simply was looking for some other viewpoints. Why do religions call for it? It does seem a bit strange.

There are drug manufacturers making money selling pills to fight toenail fungus. I saw one of their commercials on TV and wondered, "What the hell? Why do we even have toenails? Should we pull 'em off our kids at birth?"

Discuss...

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:41 am

Originally posted by WhoNut

She convinced me to leave them natural. She presented the facts, we talked and left them alone.

I simply was looking for some other viewpoints. Why do religions call for it? It does seem a bit strange.

There are drug manufacturers making money selling pills to fight toenail fungus. I saw one of their commercials on TV and wondered, "What the hell? Why do we even have toenails? Should we pull 'em off our kids at birth?"

Discuss...

wow!
you might have some deeper issues you may want to take a look at!

TheAntipop · Post by **TheAntipop** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:42 am

Originally posted by crazyman

wow!
you might have some deeper issues you may want to take a look at!

lol

omg thats too funny

Immortal · Post by **Immortal** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:46 am

well.. religions.. well I know jews... or muslim.. what not.. I saw a whole show of circumsition..

they say god made men in his own image.. but he cannot do all the work himself.. so to be complete.. men have to finish it off... like cutting the ribbon to open the store or something...

oh yeah.. I saw a live circumsition of a 50 year old male.. on tv... and the guy that's doing the surgery was explaining it and saying.. this and that.. quite interestin

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:47 am

This is from Webmd.com. All research now says to do it.

Should Your Son Be Circumcised?

Cutting a baby boy's foreskin is no longer routine. Should it be? We take a look at the research. By Gordy Slack

WebMD Medical News

Medically reviewed by Dr. Craig H. Kliger

Aug. 21, 2000 -- In the 1960s, when I was born, cutting the foreskin of a newborn American boy was about as routine as cutting his umbilical cord. I didn't really think much about circumcision until I was faced with the prospect of having it done to my own son. After the amazing ordeal of his birth, my wife and I agreed that the last thing we wanted was to send him into surgery to have the end of his ***** cut off. A nurse bolstered our sentiments, telling us -- wrongly, it turns out -- that there was really no medical advantage to being circumcised. Without a compelling medical or religious reason, we felt, why would we choose to have this done to our son?

Today, a growing number of people are looking at the issue as my wife and I did. While two-thirds of Americans still choose to have their sons circumcised, according to 1997 data from the National Center for Health Statistics, there is a strong counter-trend among people like us: educated, middle-class folks in sophisticated urban areas like San Francisco and New York. For these people, amputating the healthy erogenous tissue of newborns who have no say in the matter seems unfair and unnecessary. Indeed, in recent years, some activists have turned their opposition to circumcision into a crusade for the human rights -- and future sexual pleasure -- of infant boys.

Opponents of circumcision have long argued that there was little justification for routinely inflicting the procedure on newborn boys; the purported medical benefits, they contended, were either so unproven or so minor that they amounted to little more than poor excuses for perpetuating an outdated practice. And the medical establishment hasn't been a big help, either. The American Academy of Pediatrics, for example, has recently changed its position so that it no longer takes a stand on circumcision.

But an interesting thing has happened in the last decade: Quietly, and with little fanfare, a body of research has emerged suggesting that there may be some compelling medical reasons after all. Circumcised boys, the new research has found, seem to be at lower risk for a number of infections and diseases. For those who have been influenced by the arguments of the anti-circumcision movement, this new information creates an agonizing dilemma: Should they cut and join the brutal status quo, or leave their sons' foreskins intact, perhaps exposing them to avoidable diseases?

A Link That Couldn't Be Denied

The first evidence that uncircumcised boys may have a higher risk of avoidable diseases began to emerge in 1987. At the time, Tom Wiswell, MD, a neonatologist then at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., was an outspoken critic of circumcision. When a report from Texas came across his desk, suggesting a high rate of urinary-tract infections (UTIs) among uncircumcised boys in the first year of life, Wiswell set out to shoot the foreskin explanation down. He employed the Army's huge database of 200,000 boys to see if there was any association between circumcision and UTIs in the first year of life. To Wiswell's surprise, his study, published in the July 1986 issue of the journal Pediatrics, showed uncircumcised boys to be far more likely to have UTIs than their circumcised counterparts. He looked at the data every way he could. The association was undeniable.

In the 14 years since Wiswell's study, at least nine others have confirmed the connection between UTIs and circumcision. Taken together, the studies suggest that an uncircumcised boy is 10 times more likely than a circumcised one to contract such an infection in his first year of life. Other research suggests that possible kidney scarring caused by these early infections could also increase the risk of severe kidney problems and high blood pressure later in life, according to Edgar Schoen, MD, a researcher and clinician at Oakland, California's Kaiser Permanente Medical Center.

But the risks don't end with UTIs. Sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) like genital herpes and syphilis also seem to strike uncircumcised men more frequently than those without foreskins, according to numerous studies.

And then there's invasive penile cancer, an agonizing disease that often leads to amputation and death. In the United States, about 1,300 men a year are diagnosed with the condition, and virtually all of them are uncircumcised (see the March 2000 issue of Pediatrics). And it is far more common in Europe and in parts of the developing world where circumcision is less common.

The X-Factor? Finally -- and most intriguing of all -- circumcision may help unravel a medical mystery that has puzzled AIDS researchers for years. Having a foreskin just might be the elusive "X-factor" that explains, at least in part, the huge differences in HIV infection rates in otherwise similar regions. Why, for instance, is the infection rate in Thailand 40 times higher than in the nearby Philippines? In most important respects, both countries are quite similar: They have lots of STDs and prostitution, as well as a bias against condom use. But there is one big difference -- and some researchers think it may be key: In the Philippines, newborn circumcision is the rule. In Thailand, it is very rare.

A decade of research -- largely neglected by the media -- shows a powerful connection between circumcision and high rates of AIDS among heterosexuals, especially in Asia and Africa. In early June, the British Medical Journal published a review of more than 40 studies over the past 10 years, all of them demonstrating a close association between heterosexual HIV transmission and lack of circumcision. The journal Lancet published another similar study in May.

Why would circumcision affect HIV transmission? According to the authors of the British Medical Journal review, published in the June 10, 2000 issue, there are three key reasons. The foreskin is made of specialized tissue with a high concentration of Langerhans immune cells, which are entry portals for the transmission of HIV. Also, the delicate mucous membrane of the foreskin is much more likely to incur lesions during sex than is the rest of the *****. Finally, an intact foreskin increases the risk of contracting an STD like syphilis, which in turn can boost the chances of spreading HIV.

No one suggests that foreskins cause HIV infection, only that they may be an important factor in transmission. Obviously, most European men are not circumcised, and HIV is not raging across the continent, as it is in sub-Saharan Africa, where circumcision is also rare. That may be because it takes a combination of factors to create an explosive heterosexual AIDS epidemic, including poverty and chronically untreated STDs, according to Daniel Halperin, a medical anthropologist at the University of California at San Francisco (see the November 1999 issue of the Lancet).

An Agonizing Dilemma

So where does all this leave new parents who want to make the right decision? Probably quite confused and ambivalent, at least if you judge by one couple I met in the course of researching this article. Until very recently, Roger Hand and his wife, an El Cerrito, Calif., couple, were clear on their plans for their son, who is due to be born this month: They could see no compelling reason to have him circumcised. "We'd heard from a few people that doctors didn't recommend circumcision any more," Hand told me. "And I'd also heard that circumcision removes a lot of sensitive tissue and might decrease sexual pleasure. It just didn't seem necessary."

Then he and his wife began to hear about the new research. And suddenly, he says, they weren't so sure what to do. The couple followed press accounts from the AIDS conference last month in South Africa, where researchers highlighted circumcision as a potential means of slowing the epidemic. And they've become well aware of the higher risks faced by uncircumcised males.

"Those risks can be minimized by daily cleaning of the foreskin," says Hand, a computer programmer and musician. "But they can't be eliminated. And I can't be sure my son is going to clean himself every day, either. There were times in my life when I didn't bathe every day."

Still, Hand and his wife remain reluctant to put their son through such a painful and permanent procedure. "Now, sometimes we lean toward circumcision," Hand says. "Other times we lean away from it. We'll just have to wait till the baby's born till we decide for sure."

My wife and I opted against cutting our boys a few years ago -- and we're content with our decision -- I think. Still, I am anything but self-righteous about our choice. And if I had it to do over again? Well, let's just say I'm glad that I don't.

TheAntipop · Post by **TheAntipop** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:49 am

Originally posted by Immortal
well.. religions.. well I know jews... or muslim.. what not.. I saw a whole show of circumsition..

they say god made men in his own image.. but he cannot do all the work himself.. so to be complete.. men have to finish it off... like cutting the ribbon to open the store or something...

oh yeah.. I saw a live circumsition of a 50 year old male.. on tv... and the guy that's doing the surgery was explaining it and saying.. this and that.. quite interestin

you sat and watched a 50 year old guy get a circumcision? umm dude we need to have a talk.

Immortal · Post by **Immortal** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:50 am

I thought it was interesting that's all...

u never know what u'd learn when u watch the discovery channel.. very interesting..

drdoug99 · Post by **drdoug99** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:59 am

what's the big deal in the first place? not to sound like a ignorant *******, but really. I'm circumsized, I could care less if I was or not. What's done is done.

That quote in the article, at the end.

Still, Hand and his wife remain reluctant to put their son through such a painful and permanent procedure

Gimme a frikking break! Painful, the kid is just born!!! he wouldn't even feel it!!!

And sexual pleasure, cmon, how much more plesure do we need in life??

I've never seen a foreskin before, is it that weird to look at that kids would make fun of you like that?? that sure does suck that people would have to make fun of something like that....

colour · Post by **colour** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:01 am

interesting thread here

BMED · Post by **BMED** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:03 am

Originally posted by TheAntipop

you sat and watched a 50 year old guy get a circumcision? umm dude we need to have a talk.

See for yourself Here!

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:04 am

I'm circumcised, and I thank God that my parents decided to do it to. Uncircumcised jimmies look weird

TheAntipop · Post by **TheAntipop** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:06 am

Originally posted by BMED

See for yourself Here!

i'll pass but thanks anyway

AAF Striker · Post by **AAF Striker** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:07 am

Originally posted by BMED

See for yourself Here!

Here we go expanding my knowledge, I really hope I am not too sorry for clicking on this...

AAF Striker · Post by **AAF Striker** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:12 am

Well... I must say ... that was kind of rough to watch. Educational no doubt.... but ... not going to do that again...

colour · Post by **colour** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:18 am

am i going to be the first to post a picture or what?

lol hahaha...nah.....

drdoug99 · Post by **drdoug99** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:28 am

wow, that video was pretty interesting, thanks for the link....certainly something I've never seen before.

CiscoKid · Post by **CiscoKid** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:30 am

I'll just say this. Who wants a **** that looks like a dog ****...?

EvilAngel · Post by **EvilAngel** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:38 am

If there was a way to put my clippings back on I would, Just to rebel against all the "society says" "society thinks" Society can suck my circumsized prick when it comes to this kinda judgment just because it's different? blah, be original, be different, hell even try to be "yourself" whoa... never thought of that.. er at least no one mentioned it was cool to be different..

Yah a bit of sarcasim but what's so wrong with having a un-circumsized *****? I can't seem to get a "justified" reasoning for it to be outcast from society.. ppfftt

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