APC UPS & Car Battery

morbidpete · Post by **morbidpete** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:46 pm

So I obtained a APC UPS ES350 a few month's back, The Battery was shot. So I put it in storage
My brother junked his car a few days ago and he purchased a new battery fro it a few month's back. So I yanked the battery.
I have seen multiple hacks of people using car battery's with UPS's. I'm not trying to power my whole house, But I do want to give my servers and new work equipment some more run time over my ES650 (tiny guy)

So here are some pics

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Removed the old battery wires and soldered on the new wires I twisted together, Some hose clamps for the terminals. Soldered a USB cable onto the data port ( it uses an 5j-50 to USB connector and im not buying the crimper just for this)

Powerchute see's it no issue, Waiting to fully charge then I will bench mark

morbidpete · Post by **morbidpete** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:47 pm

Crap, Meant this for the general Forum :-(

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:38 pm

car batteries give off hydrogen gas while being charged, might be an explosion issue, be careful

morbidpete · Post by **morbidpete** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:39 pm

I read about that when I was looking this up, It's only one battery, Shouldn't be an issue. I'm not running large banks like some of the big hacks I saw. It's permanent place is also on the basement window sill. Its a very large basement, The window doesn't seal lol.

I have 2 servers, a Nas, Modem, 8 port switch, external HDD connected to it, Powerchute reports 22mins of run time and the battery is @ 84%. Ill yank the plug tomorrow and see what happens.

Post by **Philip** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:01 pm

A couple of issues you may want to consider:

1. As mentioned sealed vs. non-sealed battery may be an issue

2. I'm not sure the amperage would be enough for this UPS to actually charge that battery, maybe it would work as a slow trickle charger ? You may want to check the voltage (while connected to the APC), should be around 13.8Volts when charging/charged. I'd also monitor the UPS for heating issues (may not be designed to charge at peak power for extended periods)

3. AFAIK starter batteries are different than "deep cycle" batteries, they will drop their voltage quicker under constant load and may trip the UPS "low battery" cirquitry, causing that annoying constant beeping with APC units before they run out completely

.. Still, you probably don't want to discharge it completely as it is bad for it.

You can probably estimate your run time if you know your power draw

morbidpete · Post by **morbidpete** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:56 pm

Philip wrote:A couple of issues you may want to consider:

1. As mentioned sealed vs. non-sealed battery may be an issue

2. I'm not sure the amperage would be enough for this UPS to actually charge that battery, maybe it would work as a slow trickle charger ? You may want to check the voltage (while connected to the APC), should be around 13.8Volts when charging/charged. I'd also monitor the UPS for heating issues (may not be designed to charge at peak power for extended periods)

3. AFAIK starter batteries are different than "deep cycle" batteries, they will drop their voltage quicker under constant load and may trip the UPS "low battery" cirquitry, causing that annoying constant beeping with APC units before they run out completely .. Still, you probably don't want to discharge it completely as it is bad for it.

You can probably estimate your run time if you know your power draw

I will look into all that tomorrow, I went down there to tidy up and did feel the unit and wires to the battery, Not warm at all. I will grab my fluke and check the voltages, I knew about the starter battery dropping quickly and expecting the beep, But other forums mentioned beeping but unit still ran for hours. The battery does seem to be charging without an issue as it is now @ 91% from the 84% on my last post. I just noticed it kicked over to battery due to a "blackout" while I was out, So it did its job lol.

The battery is a small 550A for a small car, So I'm guessing the unit is not having an issue. If I where to grab another batter and hook them up parallel, You think that would help with the voltage drop or would it be more fuss then its worth? This is just a messing around type thing, I have 2 other APC 650's I can and was using

Post by **Philip** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:46 am

It's a cool project, I think others have done it and it will work well, I was just trying to help. I don't think you need more batteries unless you want to work off them for extended periods of time, i.e. 12 hours or something.

I just read somewhere that the peak charging power of this UPS is 2.5 amps, that's plenty for charging a car battery in a day or two. Hopefully it is smart enough to slow down and not overcharge it.

morbidpete · Post by **morbidpete** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:24 pm

Philip wrote:I just read somewhere that the peak charging power of this UPS is 2.5 amps, that's plenty for charging a car battery in a day or two. Hopefully it is smart enough to slow down and not overcharge it.

We'll find out when I go downstairs and find a melted home in the table :P

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:02 pm

The battery for that unit is only 35-40 bucks. I would just buy a new battery.

morbidpete · Post by **morbidpete** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:41 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:The battery for that unit is only 35-40 bucks. I would just buy a new battery.

Yea, I priced it out, I had it laying around and like I mentioned, Had an extra battery now, Figured I would give it a go, I really have no use for such a small UPS. So if this does not work out in the long run, I'll go back to my 2 650's

morbidpete · Post by **morbidpete** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:47 pm

Well this project is a bust, Yanked the cord, Only ran for about 15 seconds, Then no power. Well it was fun lol

blacklab · Post by **blacklab** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:08 pm

I have been using 12 volt lead acid batteries for UPS for years and have had no problem with them. I have found that regular car batteries, particularly the no-maintenance type will not work properly. Once a no-maintenance battery runs down a trickle charger, or UPS charger will not bring them back to full charge. They need to be charged with a charger made to charge them.

If you really want to use a lead acid battery it needs to be the deep cycle type. You can run them down to almost zero and bring them back. Use enough of them and you can run for days(we do that in field RTU's).

I have three small APC UPS's running on snowmobile batteries to protect my TV and satellite equipment. It sure eliminates the brown outs and I don't worry so much in a lightning storm. If the power is out long enough for them to start beeping I just turn them off. If the UPS has been on battery for any length of time I put the battery on a charger and bring it up to full charge. Been using this set up for over four years without a problem.

morbidpete · Post by **morbidpete** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:35 pm

blacklab wrote:I have been using 12 volt lead acid batteries for UPS for years and have had no problem with them. I have found that regular car batteries, particularly the no-maintenance type will not work properly. Once a no-maintenance battery runs down a trickle charger, or UPS charger will not bring them back to full charge. They need to be charged with a charger made to charge them.

If you really want to use a lead acid battery it needs to be the deep cycle type. You can run them down to almost zero and bring them back. Use enough of them and you can run for days(we do that in field RTU's).

I have three small APC UPS's running on snowmobile batteries to protect my TV and satellite equipment. It sure eliminates the brown outs and I don't worry so much in a lightning storm. If the power is out long enough for them to start beeping I just turn them off. If the UPS has been on battery for any length of time I put the battery on a charger and bring it up to full charge. Been using this set up for over four years without a problem.

like you and others mentioned, it seems to be an issue because I'm using a starter battery, I had fun, No loss

RoundEye · Post by **RoundEye** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:21 pm

My UPS uses two batteries about the size of a large motorcycle battery. The UPS started giving me problems, so I guessed it was the batteries since it about ten years since I replaced them. Well it wasn't the batteries, now I don't know what the hell the problem is.