Ohio Election Workers Sentenced

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:19 am

CLEVELAND (AP) - Two county election workers were sentenced Tuesday to 18 months in prison for rigging a recount of 2004 presidential election ballots so they could avoid a longer, detailed review.

Jacqueline Maiden, 60, a Cuyahoga County election coordinator who was the board's third-highest ranking employee, and ballot manager Kathleen Dreamer, 40, each were convicted of a felony count of negligent misconduct of an elections employee.

Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Judge Peter Corrigan allowed the women to remain free on bail pending appeal, but indicated he thought there was a more widespread conspiracy among election officials.

``I can't help but feel there's more to this story,'' Corrigan said.

Ohio law says that during a recount each county is supposed to randomly count at least 3 percent of its ballots by hand and by machine. If there are no discrepancies, the rest of the votes can be recounted by machine. A full hand count is ordered if two random samples result in differences.

Special prosecutor Kevin Baxter said in the defendants' January trial that they worked behind closed doors three days before the public recount on Dec. 16, 2004, to pick ballots they knew would not cause discrepancies when checked by hand, thereby avoiding a full hand recount.

full story-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/s ... 91,00.html

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:09 am

Amazingly, I don't see this being reported much in American news sources.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:22 am

what even more sad 18 months in prison for a non violent crime when we have armed robbers and other violent criminals get less time then that, our justice system sucks

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:28 am

Ghosthunter wrote:what even more sad 18 months in prison for a non violent crime when we have armed robbers and other violent criminals get less time then that, our justice system sucks

What armed robbers have gotta less than a year and a half?

18 months is a fair sentence for them. Violet criminals do need longer sentences, but they usually get 3-5 years for the light ones.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:29 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:What armed robbers have gotta less than a year and a half?

18 months is a fair sentence for them. Violet criminals do need longer sentences, but they usually get 3-5 years for the light ones.

I have seen in NY get much less..same goes for rapists and DWI

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:04 am

Ghosthunter wrote:what even more sad 18 months in prison for a non violent crime when we have armed robbers and other violent criminals get less time then that, our justice system sucks

My god you are myopic. What these people did was affect the outcome of an election. They ignored official procedures to limit their inconvenience. They didn't simply effect one person, they had a hand in manipulating the election for an entire county.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:07 am

brembo wrote:My god you are myopic. What these people did was affect the outcome of an election. They ignored official procedures to limit their inconvenience. They didn't simply effect one person, they had a hand in manipulating the election for an entire county.

As long as the protected America from another lib, they served their country, MIRITE? LOLZ

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:11 am

brembo wrote:My god you are myopic. What these people did was affect the outcome of an election. They ignored official procedures to limit their inconvenience. They didn't simply effect one person, they had a hand in manipulating the election for an entire county.

oh give me a break violent offenders are way worst then these type of crimes

if you ever get hit with a violent crime and the guy gets very little time see how you feel

P.S. read the article what they did had no effect on the outcome of the election

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:14 am

Ghosthunter wrote:oh give me a break violent offenders are way worst then these type of crimes

if you ever get hit with a violent crime and the guy gets very little time see how you feel

since when did DUI become a violent crime?

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:15 am

Jim wrote:As long as the protected America from another lib, they served their country, MIRITE? LOLZ

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:16 am

Izzo wrote:since when did DUI become a violent crime?

i dont know since DUI is repsonible for how many murders each year?

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:18 am

Ghosthunter wrote:i dont know since DUI is repsonible for how many murders each year?

You don't know when it became a violent crime because you don't how murders are ...what?

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:19 am

It doesn't matter. What they did was a crime. There is no use in comparing to other crimes, because those other crimes HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:21 am

oh ...if the Dems won the election it'd be a fricken outrage.

dan217 · Post by **dan217** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:22 am

They got what they deserved. Let it serve as an example that grandmas get sent to prison too.

mountainman · Post by **mountainman** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:25 am

Pretty sad.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:29 am

Burke wrote:It doesn't matter. What they did was a crime. There is no use in comparing to other crimes, because those other crimes HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

never said it was not a crime..but cmon they making an example, punishment suppose to fit the crime in this country and that is not true most of cases, 18 months is ridiculous and a waste of taxpayers money

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:33 am

Ghosthunter wrote:never said it was not a crime..but cmon they making an example, punishment suppose to fit the crime in this country and that is not true most of cases, 18 months is ridiculous and a waste of taxpayers money

Well, as a taxpayer, I consider election fraud to be pretty damned serious and NOT a "waste" of my money. They don't deserve anything less than what they got, period.

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:56 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:oh give me a break violent offenders are way worst then these type of crimes

if you ever get hit with a violent crime and the guy gets very little time see how you feel

P.S. read the article what they did had no effect on the outcome of the election

I don't care if it didn't effect the outcome, it matters not. These people were entrusted to make sure the ballot count was accurate and on the up and up. They basically massaged the machine outcome to match what the numbers needed to be so they would not have to COUNT ballots by hand. A slap in the face to all the voters saying in effect "I'm too busy to make sure your votes matter". Being able to vote is the nexus of citizen power, without it we are in what amounts to a dictatorship...I.E. screwed.

If something of this nature happened in your district I wonder if you would be so mellow about the offenders punishment. Personally if this happened to me I would out for blood. My vote is supposed to carry the same weight as anybody in this country, and when someone messes with that RIGHT I tend to get a little ticked off.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:24 pm

Burke wrote:It doesn't matter. What they did was a crime. There is no use in comparing to other crimes, because those other crimes HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

100% agreed! What they did was inexcusable and their punishment is well deserved.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:35 pm

brembo wrote:I don't care if it didn't effect the outcome, it matters not. These people were entrusted to make sure the ballot count was accurate and on the up and up. They basically massaged the machine outcome to match what the numbers needed to be so they would not have to COUNT ballots by hand. A slap in the face to all the voters saying in effect "I'm too busy to make sure your votes matter". Being able to vote is the nexus of citizen power, without it we are in what amounts to a dictatorship...I.E. screwed.

If something of this nature happened in your district I wonder if you would be so mellow about the offenders punishment. Personally if this happened to me I would out for blood. My vote is supposed to carry the same weight as anybody in this country, and when someone messes with that RIGHT I tend to get a little ticked off.

your such a drama queen..out for blood lol

i would rather see our prisons being used for real violent criminals and just fine these people who rigged the machines or maybe do community service

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:57 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:your such a drama queen..out for blood lol

i would rather see our prisons being used for real violent criminals and just fine these people who rigged the machines or maybe do community service

get those drunks off the roads!

CiscoKid · Post by **CiscoKid** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:58 pm

Complacent ain't ya GH?

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:58 pm

Izzo wrote:get those drunks off the roads!

Yes they cause lost of more innocent lives every year and effect us way more then some ohio election frauds, and the sad thing is they usually not thrown in jail until they had too many chances but by then it way too late

so many lives could have been saved if justice system gave them no chances at all

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:06 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:Yes they cause lost of more innocent lives every year and effect us way more then some ohio election frauds

Your tunnel vision is beyond debate.

Saving for the future, when the future is what needs saving.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:07 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:Yes they cause lost of more innocent lives every year and effect us way more then some ohio election frauds, and the sad thing is they usually not thrown in jail until they had too many chances but by then it way too late

so many lives could have been saved if justice system gave them no chances at all

jsutice styems need them to get chance at least or not justice

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:09 pm

Burke wrote:Your tunnel vision is beyond debate.

Saving for the future, when the future is what needs saving.

you talk about tunnel vision? LMAO every single post or thread of yours is about some conspiracy how america and the world is restricting our freedoms.

too bad your obsessive passion is not for real issues that can make a difference say poverty for one which is a real issue now and yesterday, not tomorrow or something that might happen 100 years from now

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:45 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:you talk about tunnel vision? LMAO every single post or thread of yours is about some conspiracy how america and the world is restricting our freedoms.

too bad your obsessive passion is not for real issues that can make a difference say poverty for one which is a real issue now and yesterday, not tomorrow or something that might happen 100 years from now

Yeah Burke, you doof. I mean not having a 50" plasma tv is so much more important than the ability to vote. Christ man, how are you gonna watch Heros on that little itty bitty 13" screen and still be a real man.

Oh, GH. I don't mind being called a drama queen, if the topic at hand was oh...say....contemporary popular shows and you said I was getting a bit over-revved I might take offense. But if I'm gettin torqued up over someone threatening a right as important and powerful as my vote, yeah I'm a prancing-tap-dancing drama queen.

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:05 pm

GH, I can't understand how you could make lite of the 14th amendment. It has divided this country for many years. Women and minorities had to struggle to get the right to vote. If some asshat in my town messed up my right by altering the outcome I would be calling for their hides.

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:08 pm

Two numbskulls goldbricking.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:10 pm

Lefty wrote:GH, I can't understand how you could make lite of the 14th amendment. It has divided this country for many years. Women and minorities had to struggle to get the right to vote. If some asshat in my town messed up my right by altering the outcome I would be calling for their hides.

never said what they did was legal

for some odd reason people are missing the point

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:20 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:never said what they did was legal

for some odd reason people are missing the point

the only one missing it is you sporto

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:36 pm

Izzo wrote:the only one missing it is you sporto

what am i missing?

that we are wasting taxpayers money and a spot for 18 months in prison for an old fart 60 year old who is no violent threat to society instead of a violent offender who actually is detrimental to innocent lives?

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:42 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:what am i missing?

that we are wasting taxpayers money and a spot for 18 months in prison for an old fart 60 year old who is no violent threat to society instead of a violent offender who actually is detrimental to innocent lives?

What you are missing is that it's wrong GH. Your comments suggest that somehow because other bad things occur that somehow it lessens the significance of this. It does not.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:48 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:what am i missing?

that we are wasting taxpayers money and a spot for 18 months in prison for an old fart 60 year old who is no violent threat to society instead of a violent offender who actually is detrimental to innocent lives?

I'd explain it to you ...as others have tried.... but you cannot understand so I won't bother.

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:50 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:what am i missing?

that we are wasting taxpayers money and a spot for 18 months in prison for an old fart 60 year old who is no violent threat to society instead of a violent offender who actually is detrimental to innocent lives?

You think just because these idiots are being punished that they are gonna let violent criminals walk because there is no room? Thats not how it works. It also seems like one of the things I'd want to spend my money on is showing people that if you are lazy and shirk you duty when it comes to serving the public there is a price to pay. This isn't a federal matter anyway so its not your tax dollars being wasted.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:57 pm

GH:

1.) Taking away one of the most fundimental rights to the smooth running of this nation - the ability to have a clean, non-tampered-with election - could be seen as treason, that is, "A violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state." I would say that 18 months is a very light sentence for that.

2.) Why the hell are you assuming that, because we're punishing these people, that we can't punish violent offenders? In what universe does that logic make any sort of sense? Criminal justice isn't some sort of game.. you can't call out, "I've got three rapists here, anyone want 'em for some petty thieves?" It's not Settlers of Catan, it's real life - we have the room and ability to get them both, not just one or the other.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:58 pm

Roody wrote:What you are missing is that it's wrong GH. Your comments suggest that somehow because other bad things occur that somehow it lessens the significance of this. It does not.

never said that and putting words in my mouth

simple = punishment must fit the crime and it needs to be consistent.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:59 pm

64bit wrote:You think just because these idiots are being punished that they are gonna let violent criminals walk because there is no room? Thats not how it works. It also seems like one of the things I'd want to spend my money on is showing people that if you are lazy and shirk you duty when it comes to serving the public there is a price to pay. This isn't a federal matter anyway so its not your tax dollars being wasted.

try working as a correctional officer and you will have a total different view of how our system works there are violent criminals paroled much earlier then they should because there is no room

CiscoKid · Post by **CiscoKid** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:05 pm

typically it's two years or less before their sentence is up or early parole and only if they've had good behavior while locked up