Watched another war movie

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:24 pm

Well after yet another war movie it leaves me wondering...
What wars have the US actually won?
Makes me think the big military thing = big speaker syndrome

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:50 pm

well there was that thing called WWII

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:53 pm

Izzo wrote:well there was that thing called WWII

Ummmm, alies won that, Us stepped in at the last minute

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:57 pm

I can tell you if it wasn't for the US stepping in ,Russia was going down, and Britain was about to get nuked if the Nazi's had time to finish their Rockets. If the US hadn't stepped in the germans would have won the war.

I also believe we did win the Korean War.

Pie

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:58 pm

no one ever wins a war.....

Shagster · Post by **Shagster** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:59 pm

We won our civil war! We kicked our own ass!

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:00 pm

Izzo wrote:no one ever wins a war.....

Right answer

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:01 pm

thepieman wrote:I can tell you if it wasn't for the US stepping in ,Russia was going down, and Britain was about to get nuked if the Nazi's had time to finish their Rockets. If the US hadn't stepped in the germans would have won the war.

Pie

Debatable and the movies make it look good, but I'll leave that for another day

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:42 am

Chris wrote:Ummmm, alies won that, Us stepped in at the last minute

Yeah and it woulda been an even quicker ending had we not 'stepped' in. also wouldn't have been the allies winning.....

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:45 am

Chris wrote:Debatable and the movies make it look good, but I'll leave that for another day

Whats really debatable about it? Do you think the invasion of normandy would have been a sucsess without the amiercan's? and lets face it the allies were getting owned till then.

Lets also not forget that the Japanese were in this little World War. Even if germany would have been taken the Japanese were still there. USMC pretty much (not entirely, had help) kicked their ass!

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:13 am

Switzerland wins evey war.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:20 am

Chris wrote:What wars have the US actually won?

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:26 am

American Revolution
Indian wars
Civil War

Spanish/american war

sito · Post by **sito** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:55 am

thepieman wrote:I can tell you if it wasn't for the US stepping in ,Russia was going down, and Britain was about to get nuked if the Nazi's had time to finish their Rockets. If the US hadn't stepped in the germans would have won the war.

Pie

I absolutely cannot disagree there. We'd be all speaking german or never born. That was a real war. That's when a war is war. No soldier died in sin, in shame etc. If Hitler had kept Einstein and few others.....

sito · Post by **sito** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:03 am

RoscoPColtrane wrote:Whats really debatable about it? Do you think the invasion of normandy would have been a sucsess without the amiercan's? and lets face it the allies were getting owned till then.

Lets also not forget that the Japanese were in this little World War. Even if germany would have been taken the Japanese were still there. USMC pretty much (not entirely, had help) kicked their ass!

That's because they were on a mission to take it all. Not just Europe. I wonder if the allied vets would poke at each other the same way we do. None of us know **** about it, except for those that experienced it.

Unless my braindead drunk ass serves me not, I swear the USA were reluctant to step in until after the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

(Sorry for spelling Burke)

vinnie · Post by **vinnie** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:48 am

'Winning' or 'losing' a war or battle can be quite a subjective thing.

Both Germany and Britain claim they won Jutland. Germany sank more ships, but the German fleet was damaged to the point that from then on Britain had the naval upper hand.

Both the North Vietnamese and the Australians claim to have won Long Tan. Australians had 18 killed from their company, there were 245 Vietnamese bodies left from their whole regiment after they dragged away as many bodies as they could... yet the Vietnamese call it a sucessful ambush.

Who really won Vietnam? US, Australia and NZ won militarily... the NV won propaganda wise... and where are the Soviets doing nowdays exactly? How's the booming tourist trade going in 'communist' Vietnam?

Moral of this post- winning and losing is subjective.

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:50 am

according to Bush, we started the war on 3/20, and we won it on 5/1..
We are just over there making sure its a smooth transistion...

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 pm

RoscoPColtrane wrote:Lets also not forget that the Japanese were in this little World War. USMC pretty much (not entirely, had help) kicked their ass!

Horrific body counts on each side.

*Hand salute*

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:43 pm

MadDoctor wrote:Horrific body counts on each side.

*Hand salute*

Yes sir, but they got the job done. I just got done reading a book called "flag of our father's" about the flag raisers on Iwo Jima. Great book if you get a chance to read it.

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:46 pm

sito wrote:That's because they were on a mission to take it all. Not just Europe. I wonder if the allied vets would poke at each other the same way we do. None of us know **** about it, except for those that experienced it.

Unless my braindead drunk ass serves me not, I swear the USA were reluctant to step in until after the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

(Sorry for spelling Burke)

Yeah none of us really has any idea bout it, except what we see and read. I try to read books by the actual people that where there, and watch movies based off of those books. All in all it 2nd hand @ best.

Wouldn't anyone be reluctant to step into a war like that.

Croc · Post by **Croc** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:28 pm

RoscoPColtrane wrote:Yeah none of us really has any idea bout it, except what we see and read. I try to read books by the actual people that where there, and watch movies based off of those books. All in all it 2nd hand @ best.

Wouldn't anyone be reluctant to step into a war like that.

Maybe this Wikipedia link will help those interested understand the excuses given for starting WW2.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:24 pm

sito wrote:Unless my braindead drunk ass serves me not, I swear the USA were reluctant to step in until after the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

(Sorry for spelling Burke)

You are right. I believe a lot of it had to do with a lot of Businesses having alliances with the Nazi's (Bush's Grandfather included) and a lot of people with power kept us out of it until they finally Bombed Pearl Harbor. The saying: "Awoken a Sleeping Giant" came from that attack.
Had the japanese not attacked, I wonder if we would be living in a totally different world today and would we have entered the war with or without that provocation.

Pie

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:07 pm

thepieman wrote:You are right. I believe a lot of it had to do with a lot of Businesses having alliances with the Nazi's (Bush's Grandfather included) and a lot of people with power kept us out of it until they finally Bombed Pearl Harbor. The saying: "Awoken a Sleeping Giant" came from that attack.
Had the japanese not attacked, I wonder if we would be living in a totally different world today and would we have entered the war with or without that provocation.

Pie

It was only a matter of time ... the oil embargo sealed the deal.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:24 am

Chris wrote:Ummmm, alies won that, Us stepped in at the last minute

Don't forget in WWII, the US had 2x fronts to fight, the European theater (which we didn't exactly wait til the last minute to step in...and before that, we had supported England for years before we actually declared war on Germany)

The Pacific theater...we were pretty much solo on that entire job.

The little Grenada coup

wee96 · Post by **wee96** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:46 am

We helped win WWII, that should be considered a win for us, england, france, russia, canada, australia, new zealand, etc. The korean war was a win for us and south korea. Vietnam we got stomped. Gulf war we won along with most of europe who helped. Iraq war is slowly being won.

Oh we won the civil war (im a yank

), and the revolutionary war.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:34 pm

Is the question did we ever win a war without any outside help? Or have we won any wars in general?

Remember we did get help in the Revolution from France and Spain.

Also for the record we lost the most American lives in the Civil war then any other war in our history..how sad is that.

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:47 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote: we actually declared war on Germany)

Another little tidbit, we declared war on Japan and then Germany declared war on US.

Rivas · Post by **Rivas** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:19 pm

thepieman wrote:I can tell you if it wasn't for the US stepping in ,Russia was going down, and Britain was about to get nuked if the Nazi's had time to finish their Rockets. If the US hadn't stepped in the germans would have won the war.

I also believe we did win the Korean War.

Pie

Russia wasnt going down ...you didnt help them,the winter did.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:23 pm

rivas wrote:Russia wasnt going down ...you didnt help them,the winter did.

Ther Germans slaughtered 20 Million + Russians ....they were goin down

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:25 pm

rivas wrote:Russia wasnt going down ...you didnt help them,the winter did.

Yup they were getting pushed back until the winter came in. Then again with Stalin at the reins who cares if Germany woulda taken them.

Hitler Versus Stalin....whose worse....

Rivas · Post by **Rivas** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:27 pm

RoscoPColtrane wrote:Whats really debatable about it? Do you think the invasion of normandy would have been a sucsess without the amiercan's? and lets face it the allies were getting owned till then.

Lets also not forget that the Japanese were in this little World War. Even if germany would have been taken the Japanese were still there. USMC pretty much (not entirely, had help) kicked their ass!

You are right but lets not forget Russia.
Hitler did such a mistake attacking them,he woke up sleeping bear.
I dont really remember one american or british soldier or airplain on east and lets not forget Russia entered Germany first ..i dont know if it was agreement between west and east but its a fact.(correct me if im wrong)They found Hitlers body.But YES us did help win WW2 BIG time it was something what was worth fightning for not like today .....

Rivas · Post by **Rivas** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:28 pm

Izzo wrote:Ther Germans slaughtered 20 Million + Russians ....they were goin down

and so what ?
They still got 350+ millions to spare

look how big was Russia before,after 1989 they are still landmass number 1 anyway ,bigger then CANADA and USA.I think Before 1989 they were bigger then CANADA and USA together

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:37 pm

rivas wrote:You are right but lets not forget Russia.
Hitler did such a mistake attacking them,he woke up sleeping bear.
I dont really remember one american or british soldier or airplain on east and lets not forget Russia entered Germany first ..i dont know if it was agreement between west and east but its a fact.(correct me if im wrong)They found Hitlers body.But YES us did help win WW2 BIG time it was something what was worth fightning for not like today .....

I agree, and shouldn't have sounded like the other allied countries didn't contribute.

And also agree that ww2 was something that every man that died, died for a reason, gave his/her life to do nothing short of save the world....

God knows where we would be today if Germany/Japan would have owned the world...

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:38 pm

I was reading the link on page two and then went to the WW2 main page. Pretty good page. Very informative. Obviously you can dig up more if you try but there are tons of links to most of the big battles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

Check it out if you get a chance.

Rivas · Post by **Rivas** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:52 pm

RoscoPColtrane wrote:I was reading the link on page two and then went to the WW2 main page. Pretty good page. Very informative. Obviously you can dig up more if you try but there are tons of links to most of the big battles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

Check it out if you get a chance.

thanks i will take a look in a few

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:22 pm

Speaking of Russia, we almost went after them after we got Hitler...and Russia never forgot that. Cold war started back then.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:25 pm

RoscoPColtrane wrote:Another little tidbit, we declared war on Japan and then Germany declared war on US.

Officially, legally, yes Germany declared war on the US first...but we were actually "at war" with them (engaging them) about 1/2 a year prior to that. The US fleet had orders to sink German subs well before they declared war on the US.

Roosevelt was quoted as saying something to Churchhill to the effect of "I will never declare war, but I will make war"....because he didn't want to be bothered with Congress taking a hundred and something months to argue about it.

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:43 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Officially, legally, yes Germany declared war on the US first...but we were actually "at war" with them (engaging them) about 1/2 a year prior to that. The US fleet had orders to sink German subs well before they declared war on the US.

Roosevelt was quoted as saying something to Churchhill to the effect of "I will never declare war, but I will make war"....because he didn't want to be bothered with Congress taking a hundred and something months to argue about it.

Interesting. Guess there was alot of BS political crap back then too huh?

I actually watched a documentary once about how the US let Pearl Harbor get attacked to get backing for the war. Usually i see these things and they are all conspiracy theory type but this one actually had some good research and whatnot. I forget what it was called but was pretty interesting...

Whatcha all think about that stuff? I personally don't like to think it happened that way, but its hard to say.

Rivas · Post by **Rivas** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:44 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Speaking of Russia, we almost went after them after we got Hitler...and Russia never forgot that. Cold war started back then.

How could you,your army wasnt prepared for -70 degree celsia

ANd speaking of "WE" meaning who ? If you went after them you would loose all the support from other nations,how can you supply your army then ? And you think slavic nations would allow you to invade russia ? Good luck

Also did you forget 60% of UK airplane pilots were from czechoslovakia,polland and yugoslavia (serbs and croatians ) (not sure how they were called back then).And they will watch how you are invading their brothers on east ?

Germany almost won thanks to France and UK ,polland and czechoslovakia had alliance with them.They close their eyes when they invaded polland and czechoslovakia.They gave them up.If they did something it wouldnt go so far and it would save millions of lives.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:21 pm

RoscoPColtrane wrote: I actually watched a documentary once about how the US let Pearl Harbor get attacked to get backing for the war. Usually i see these things and they are all conspiracy theory type but this one actually had some good research and whatnot. I forget what it was called but was pretty interesting...

Yeah I've seen a lot of shows and read some stuff on the days leading up to Pearl Harbor...accounts of Japanese subs found snooping in the area, sightings of their arriving attack fleet ignored by "whoever", etc.

It's tough to say as events unfolded...however, the US wasn't prepared to take on the Japanese even if we wanted to months before Pearl. Surface ship wise, we didn't have much. Air strength wise...our Pacific aircraft were horribly outdated. Brewster Buffalos, P40 Warhawks, Grumman F4 Wildcats...all of them far outclassed by the Japanese. We didn't have the F4 Hellcats, F4U Corsairs, and Mustangs yet.