What does the push for "Intelligent Design" mean..

Zilog B · Post by **Zilog B** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:58 pm

I keep seeing this come up in forums and in the news. Is this some sort of compromise between science and religion?

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:02 pm

Zilog B wrote:I keep seeing this come up in forums and in the news. Is this some sort of compromise between science and religion?

I wouldnt call it a compromise.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:07 pm

http://www.intelligentdesignnetwork.org/

sounds like crap to me

Spammy · Post by **Spammy** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:20 pm

Brent wrote:http://www.intelligentdesignnetwork.org/

sounds like crap to me

tao_jones · Post by **tao_jones** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:21 pm

The theory of intelligent design (ID) holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause rather than an undirected process such as natural selection...Its just away of coming to a middle ground since we say that evolution or creationism is the absolute truth.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:54 pm

"Intelligent Design" is in no way related to science. Science makes no assertions that cannot be tested -- Intelligent Design states that there are some things (a designer) that made the universe. We can't test that, therefore ID is not a valid scientific hypothesis. But creationists want it tought anyway, and are pushing for it.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:02 pm

Brent wrote:http://www.intelligentdesignnetwork.org/

sounds like crap to me

anything that is not christian based sounds like crap to you...is that a surprise LOL

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:03 pm

Zilog B wrote:I keep seeing this come up in forums and in the news. Is this some sort of compromise between science and religion?

I havent heard of this thanks for the posts I will read about it during my lunch hour, interesting reading.

herer a good article off that site i found

http://www.intelligentdesignnetwork.org ... 111003.pdf

Kip Patterson · Post by **Kip Patterson** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:53 pm

This is very much in the news today in Ohio. Ohio now requires the inclusion of "Intelligent Design" in the high school curriculum, one of several states to do so. It was disclosed today that Governor Taft was attempting to influence the curriculum board behind the scenes, supporting some high-profile fundamentalist christians.

This will be the final straw that breaks the Camels back. While it is unlikely that he will be thrown out of office, his political career is over, and the governorship will in all likelyhood return to the democrats, along with the state in the next presidential election. This comes on top of the investing of state worker's comp funds in supposed rare coins and a failure to disclose contributions.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:16 pm

Kip Patterson wrote:This is very much in the news today in Ohio. Ohio now requires the inclusion of "Intelligent Design" in the high school curriculum, one of several states to do so. It was disclosed today that Governor Taft was attempting to influence the curriculum board behind the scenes, supporting some high-profile fundamentalist christians.

This will be the final straw that breaks the Camels back. While it is unlikely that he will be thrown out of office, his political career is over, and the governorship will in all likelyhood return to the democrats, along with the state in the next presidential election. This comes on top of the investing of state worker's comp funds in supposed rare coins and a failure to disclose contributions.

interesting well reading the articles on that site..and what politicians are doing..it sounds like they are twisting things to make it fit...dont suprise me one bit..LOL

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:49 pm

I hope now at least other Creeds begin to push their own "Scientific" creation events, at least it might make things interesting for the kids to learn different things instead of just one religeon.

Long, long ago, in the great past, there were no people on the earth. All of it was covered by deep water. Birds, flying, filled the air, and many huge monsters possessed the waters.
One day the birds saw a beautiful woman falling from the sky. Immediately the huge ducks held a council.
"How can we prevent her from falling into the water?" they asked.
After some discussion, they decided to spread out their wings and thus break the force of her fall. Each duck spread out its wings until it touched the wings of other ducks. So the beautiful woman reached them safely.
Then the monsters of the deep held a council, to decide how they could protect the beautiful being from the terror of the waters. One after another, the monsters decided that they were not able to protect her, that only Giant Tortoise was big enough to bear her weight. He volunteered, and she was gently placed upon his back. Giant Tortoise magically increased in size and soon became a large island.
After a time, the Celestial Woman gave birth to twin boys. One of them was the Spirit of Good. He made all the good things on the earth and caused the corn, the fruits, and the tobacco to grow.
The other twin was the Spirit of Evil. He created the weeds and also the worms and the bugs and all the other creatures that do evil to the good animals and birds.
All the time, Giant Tortoise continued to stretch himself. And so the world became larger and larger. Sometimes Giant Tortoise moved himself in such a way as to make the earth quake.
After many, many years had passed by, the Sky-Holder, whom Indians called Ta-rhu-hia-wah-ku, decided to create some people. He wanted them to surpass all others in beauty, strength, and bravery. So from the bosom of the island where they had been living on moles, the Sky-Holder brought forth six pairs of people.
The first pair were left near a great river, now called the Mohawk. So they are called the Mohawk Indians. The second pair were told to move their home beside a large stone. Their descendants have been called the Oneidas. Many of them lived on the south side of Oneida Lake and others in the valleys of Oneida Creek. A third pair were left on a high hill and have always been called the Onondagas.
The fourth pair became the parents of the Cayugas, and the fifth pair the parents of the Senecas. Both were placed in some part of what is now known as the State of New York. But the Tuscaroras were taken up the Roanoke River into what is now known as North Carolina. There the Sky-Holder made his home while he taught these people and their descendants many useful arts and crafts.
The Tuscaroras claim that his presence with them made them superior to the other Iroquois nations. But each of the other five will tell you, "Ours was the favoured tribe with whom Sky- Holder made his home while he was on the earth."
The Onondagas say, "We have the council fire. That means that we are the chosen people."
As the years passed by, the numerous Iroquois families became scattered over the state, and also in what is now Pennsylvania, the Middle West and southeastern Canada. Some lived in areas where bear was their principal game. So these people were called the Bear Clan. Others lived where beavers were plentiful. So they were called the Beaver Clan. For similar reasons, the Deer, Wolf, Snipe and Tortoise clans received their names.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:46 pm

thepieman wrote:I hope now at least other Creeds begin to push their own "Scientific" creation events, at least it might make things interesting for the kids to learn different things instead of just one religeon.

yeah, how dare we teach the truth to them

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:55 pm

Brent wrote:yeah, how dare we teach the truth to them

Just like the scientific way, if ya can't prove it, it aint true!

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:50 pm

As a newfound believer of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I fully support Intelligent Design.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:51 pm

Brent wrote:yeah, how dare we teach the truth to them

Yeah who's truth is that? The Buddhists? The Taoists? The American Indians? Who's truth are we going to allow to be taught? Should it be only the Christian theory?

Pie

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:20 am

There is now a third ethos that is being pushed in some communities, and seems to have a growing base of followers. Originally I was steadfastly against ID being taught in a "Science" class, as it is more a philosophy than science. But after learning about this new theory of ID, also known as FSM, I'm really starting to change my tune (which is strange to even hear me say)
more info here for those that are interested:
http://www.venganza.org/

ScottE · Post by **ScottE** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:49 am

Nobody has ever been able to prove either Creationism or Evolution. It's mostly a waste of time to argue/debate about it.

Mad_Haggis · Post by **Mad_Haggis** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:01 am

It's me!!!

and the...

B E E R

we(thats me and the beer, do not want to be classified as a religion)

Is it 2 much to ask 2 ?

I'm not saying I wantoo be the beer pope, but if the jog is up 4 grabs, I can polytechique..

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:12 am

Blisster wrote:There is now a third ethos that is being pushed in some communities, and seems to have a growing base of followers. Originally I was steadfastly against ID being taught in a "Science" class, as it is more a philosophy than science. But after learning about this new theory of ID, also known as FSM, I'm really starting to change my tune (which is strange to even hear me say)
more info here for those that are interested:
http://www.venganza.org/

Email Replies from School Board:

Response from Mrs. Janet Waugh - District 1 - Received 6/25/05

From: JWaugh1052@aol.com
To: bobby.henderson@gmail.com
Date: Jun 25, 2005 6:34 AM
Subject: Response from a member of the Kansas Board of Education

Thanks for your comments about the Flying Spaghetti Monster and all the supporters who have sent their support to members of the Kansas Board of Education. I am supporting the recommendations of the science committee and am currently in the minority. I think your theory is wonderful and possibly some of the majority members will be willing to support it.
Thanks again,

Janet Waugh
District 1

Response from Mrs. Sue Gamble - District 2 - Received 6/26/05

From: msgamble@swbell.net
To: bobby.henderson@gmail.com
Date: Jun 26, 2005 6:34 PM
Subject: Reply

Dear Mr. Henderson, Thanks for your message. Thanks for the laugh. Your web site is fascinating. I will add your theory to a long list of alternative theories I intend to introduce when it is appropriate. I am practicing how to do this with a straight face which is difficult since it's such a ridiculous subject]

Reply from a Christian:

Bobby,
Your letter to the Kansas School Board gave me a good laugh. It's the kind of move that Saul linsky would have loved.

I'm a Christian, pray at night, and get a lot out of my faith. At the same time, I don't confuse Christianity with Science for one minute, and I would not want Christianity taught in schools. There is a simple reason for this: Christianity can be a powerful transformative force in people's lives when it is taken as faith ... one part decision and another part a leap into the unknown. Reducing Christianity to a history drains all the juice out of it. You have to take that leap yourself. It's a road or a path that some people chose ... it's not even vaguely related to facts as discovered by science. Christianity is neither a fact nor a theory ... it's a religion.

Peace, Kevin

some people with common sense

Mad_Haggis · Post by **Mad_Haggis** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:18 am

You know you are evry right...

I would make a very bad religious icon, but ...

If you like food(everybody's got to eat)

I'm your number one son!

Kip Patterson · Post by **Kip Patterson** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:16 pm

Ah, well. Taft got himself indicted today.

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:32 pm

Kip Patterson wrote:Ah, well. Taft got himself indicted today.

For which of his "activities"? I tried looking and did not find anything.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:33 pm

De Plano wrote:For which of his "activities"? I tried looking and did not find anything.

Unreported golf outings

Pie

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:37 pm

thepieman wrote:Unreported golf outings

Pie

Oooh, one should not "out" a golfer until they are ready to out themselves

Was it with lobbyists or are you just messing with the easily gullible?

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:43 pm

De Plano wrote:Oooh, one should not "out" a golfer until they are ready to out themselves

Was it with lobbyists or are you just messing with the easily gullible?

Nah I wouldnt kid you today..I dont have the energy ]http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... world_news[/url]

Aug. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Ohio Governor Bob Taft will be charged with four criminal misdemeanors for failing to disclose on state forms that he accepted free golf outings, local prosecutors said today, the Associated Press reported.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:56 pm

thepieman wrote:Email Replies from School Board:

Reply from a Christian:

some people with common sense

What is in the bible is fact, and that is what needs to be taught in schools, so that we are familiar with the bible. We should have a bible study class in schools.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:01 pm

Brent wrote:What is in the bible is fact, and that is what needs to be taught in schools, so that we are familiar with the bible. We should have a bible study class in schools.

wrong Brent, that is what you may think, but not everyone agrees with that, that is why this country has a constitution seperating church and state.

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:13 pm

Brent wrote:What is in the bible is fact, and that is what needs to be taught in schools, so that we are familiar with the bible. We should have a bible study class in schools.

what is in the bible is fact according to your beliefs.
not nescessarily according to a Jew, or a Hindi, or a Buddhist, or a Muslim, or a Taoist, or a Jehovas Witness, or a Mormon, or an Atheist, or an Agnostic, or a Wicca, etc. etc.
These beleifs ALL constitue American society, and can all be learned at thier various temples, churches, private schools, etc.
Why should only one religous point of view be taught at a public school, in a science class?

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:15 pm

Mark wrote:wrong Brent, that is what you may think, but not everyone agrees with that, that is why this country has a constitution seperating church and state.

I think he is just continuing to try and troll. The problem is the idiocy of his jokes is too close to the idiocy of what he believes

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:24 pm

Blisster wrote:what is in the bible is fact according to your beliefs.
not nescessarily according to a Jew, or a Hindi, or a Buddhist, or a Muslim, or a Taoist, or a Jehovas Witness, or a Mormon, or an Atheist, or an Agnostic, or a Wicca, etc. etc.
These beleifs ALL constitue American society, and can all be learned at thier various temples, churches, private schools, etc.
Why should only one religous point of view be taught at a public school, in a science class?

Because its his religeon and he believes it to be true. They dont give a hoot about others and what they think.

Debbie · Post by **Debbie** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:38 pm

Brent wrote:What is in the bible is fact, and that is what needs to be taught in schools, so that we are familiar with the bible. We should have a bible study class in schools.

Brent...you are full of ....

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:40 pm

Mark wrote:that is why this country has a constitution seperating church and state.

actually, that is not in the constitution

it is a common misconception, you will not find that stated in the constitution

http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:01 pm

Debbie wrote:Brent...you are full of ....

[imghttp://members.speedguide.net/tigress73/poop.jpg[/img]

Foie Gras?

Debbie · Post by **Debbie** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:04 pm

thepieman wrote:Foie Gras?

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:06 pm

Brent wrote:What is in the bible is fact, and that is what needs to be taught in schools, so that we are familiar with the bible. We should have a bible study class in schools.

Does Texas not support a religious type of study?

Idaho does big time. Your allowed an hour a day devoted to religious studies but not on campus.

In fact in the southern end of the state, we hardly get a highschool without the local Morman church building a seminary school right next to the campus. In some places, even the type of material used to build it is exactly like the highschool.

That said, what is Sunday School for?

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:11 pm

Brent wrote:actually, that is not in the constitution

it is a common misconception, you will not find that stated in the constitution

http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html

You won't see right to privacy or right to a fair trial either but its still represented by the first amendment.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:49 pm

thepieman wrote:You won't see right to privacy or right to a fair trial either but its still represented by the first amendment.

Actually, your right to privacy is protected by the Fourth Amendment (at least concerning search and seizure), and trial rights are pretty much protected by Amendments Five through Seven (mainly #6 for an impartial and speedy trial).

So, yeah, none of those are found in the First Amendment.

Aside from that, I wouldn't exactly recommend strictly following history lessons from a web page that contains the motto: "PREPARE FOR MARTYRDOM. LIVE BY FAITH NOW!"

CiscoKid · Post by **CiscoKid** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:52 pm

Brent wrote:What is in the bible is fact, and that is what needs to be taught in schools, so that we are familiar with the bible. We should have a bible study class in schools.

Brent, being a Christian, has anyone ever become physical with you because of your chosen faith? I mean has anyone actually tried to attack because you wouldn't say otherwise?

Look at the middle east where a majority of the schools teach the Koran as their primary text book. Extramists come out of such religiouse involement in schools and government. Just something to think about

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:08 pm

I just got a letter from my cousin down in Georgia who converted from Marionite Catholic to Baptist, and he was asking for a donation so that he and a bunch of people could go and try to convert Moslems in Lebanon of all places, right in the heart of Beirut. I hope he stays safe and in one piece. Why can't people leave well enough alone and let people be who they want to be? This is how **** starts.

Debbie · Post by **Debbie** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:10 pm

thepieman wrote:I just got a letter from my cousin down in Georgia who converted from Marionite Catholic to Baptist, and he was asking for a donation so that he and a bunch of people could go and try to convert Moslems in Lebanon of all places, right in the heart of Beirut. I hope he stays safe and in one piece. Why can't people leave well enough alone and let people be who they want to be? This is how **** starts.

oh boy