Let's talk about "time".

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:54 pm

It's been a while since we've had a good head scratcher.....How about I start one off...

I've always been fascinated with Vonnegut's, "Slaughter House Five".

Is time actually linear or could it be that's just the perception we humans have of the gist of what time is?

Go...

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:59 pm

Time is a human concept and is circular IMO

striker8000 · Post by **striker8000** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:00 am

I will not admit to not admit to having "deja vu"

the only time I'll admit to was the time I completed an entire midterm, then realized I hadn't even started on it, boy was I freaked (about the amount of time I had left, which turned out to be the entire amount of time, wierd)

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:01 am

Ghosthunter wrote:Time is a human concept and is circular IMO

Why circular? [Immy voice]*discuss*[/Immy voice]

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:03 am

striker8000 wrote:I will not admit to not admit to having "deja vu"

the only time I'll admit to was the time I completed an entire midterm, then realized I hadn't even started on it, boy was I freaked (about the amount of time I had left, which turned out to be the entire amount of time, wierd)

Nothing wrong with a good deja vu on occasion. It's as good as a thick steak.

That's a strange phenomena you describe.

striker8000 · Post by **striker8000** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:06 am

considering that's two hours I had to go through all over again...

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:09 am

striker8000 wrote:considering that's two hours I had to go through all over again...

So..for you, there has been at least once where time was circular..

_-_-_-_-_-

What if...Like poor ole Billy Pilgrim, your life wasn't lined up frame by frame? That you "jumped" around...or as in the book...."Billy Pilgram has become unstuck in time"?

Would it really be that confusing? Or...would you simply just play out that frame?

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:09 am

whats linear?

ace · Post by **ace** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:11 am

I have deja vu alot it seems. Maybe once a every couple months and sometimes it gives me a weird feeling. Kinda freaks me out sometimes cause I think something bad is gonna happen but nothing ever has. Weird I tell ya.

striker8000 · Post by **striker8000** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:14 am

time has a complete unevenness to it, jumps, fits, and restarts

I don't count the times that are missing from my memory, simply because...

and I aced the test (of course, having four hours to take a two hour test, combined with excellent memorization skills, and open-book)

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:14 am

Randy wrote:whats linear?

Of, relating to, or resembling a line; straight.

In, of, describing, described by, or related to a straight line.
Having only one dimension.
Characterized by, composed of, or emphasizing drawn lines rather than painterly effects.
Botany. Narrow and elongated with nearly parallel margins: a linear leaf.

In how it's used here, imagine your life, from beginning to end...as frames in a movie. What if for some reason....that were cut up wrong? It would be non-linear.

Is it our own perceptions that define time or is their really a fundamental law?

I'm sure we've touched on this subject on SG before, but it's been a while.

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:14 am

ace wrote:I have deja vu alot it seems. Maybe once a every couple months and sometimes it gives me a weird feeling. Kinda freaks me out sometimes cause I think something bad is gonna happen ( like run out of weed) but nothing ever has. Weird I tell ya.

fixed

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:16 am

ace wrote:I have deja vu alot it seems. Maybe once a every couple months and sometimes it gives me a weird feeling. Kinda freaks me out sometimes cause I think something bad is gonna happen but nothing ever has. Weird I tell ya.

What you may be experiencing, isn't a true deja vu....Maybe it's "perception".

ace · Post by **ace** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:16 am

Randy wrote:fixed

LMFAO!!!!

ace · Post by **ace** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:16 am

downhill wrote:What you may be experiencing, isn't a true deja vu....Maybe it's "perception".

I have thought about it that way and thats why sometimes it scares me.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:18 am

Linear....time just IS ..In my opinion I am not sure it even exists.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:22 am

ace wrote:I have thought about it that way and thats why sometimes it scares me.

Why? To glimpse even a shred of the future is a gift. Even if you could...it seems that the most gifted people who can...have no ability to change the outcome. If they did...how would they have ever sensed it in the first place?

That too is also a quandary. If one could actually "see" into the future, then how could it possibly be truly linear if you could actually change the outcome of what one sensed?

BroncoSport · Post by **BroncoSport** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:23 am

deja vu is just a glitch in the matrix....

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:23 am

Izzo wrote:Linear....time just IS ..In my opinion I am not sure it even exists.

Not that I disagree with you at all. I'm just curious as to if this is really true and why?

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:24 am

BroncoSport wrote:deja vu is just a glitch in the matrix....

Which one?

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:27 am

downhill wrote:Why? To glimpse even a shred of the future is a gift. Even if you could...it seems that the most gifted people who can...have no ability to change the outcome. If they did...how would they have ever sensed it in the first place?

That too is also a quandary. If one could actually "see" into the future, then how could it possibly be truly linear if you could actually change the outcome of what one sensed?

hmm .. being able to 'see' the future wouldn't eliminate it from being linear .. if one is able to see into the future i think it would mean then that a person's fate/destiny/path in life is then predetermined and impossible to change no matter what...if this is then true then time would not exist other than to determine how long your existence was in this life... which in turn would make it pointless

Sarahnn · Post by **Sarahnn** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:27 am

downhill wrote:It's been a while since we've had a good head scratcher.....How about I start one off...

I've always been fascinated with Vonnegut's, "Slaughter House Five".

Is time actually linear or could it be that's just the perception we humans have of the gist of what time is?

Go...

Hi Downhill,

I didn't read the book, but I have some views.

Time is movement. If nothing moved, there would be no process called time. A photo or painting is timeless. But since existance is static, time is the result of accounting for it's passage and preparing for it's arrival. There is an intelligent awareness that gives us the concept of past, present, future.

So I think spatial movement+cognizance= time.

I think the various speeds and angles of spatial movement in relation to the observer determines the relativity. And that is the foremost reason why I believe we can never go back in time.

Interesting subject. Thank you.

striker8000 · Post by **striker8000** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:29 am

actually, I have given up on tracing time, it's definitely not linear, and it's definitely not circular, so...what's left?

by the way...I was able to increase my score from a 'b' to an 'a', so I definitely changed the future (at that time, didn't really affect long-term, but it was interesting, in a wierd way)

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:30 am

Izzo wrote:hmm .. being able to 'see' the future wouldn't eliminate it from being linear .. if one is able to see into the future i think it would mean then that a person's fate/destiny/path in life is then predetermined and impossible to change no matter what...if this is then true then time would not exist other than to determine how long your existence was in this life... which in turn would make it pointless

Agreed...If you can't change the outcome of something you know ahead of time...then that would be a "proof" that time is indeed linear.

What if you could actually change the outcome? Would that disprove that time isn't linear?

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:33 am

our own perceptions that define time < I would say yes

I beleive 2 things for sure time moves at the same speed for everyone But each person has their own perception. Definately as we get older time " seems to move faster all though it does not our peceptions of it Definatly does. If you want to slow down time just get in line at the bank around 12:10 on friday... see how slow the line moves, then ask yourself later how fast you lost your lunch hour....

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:33 am

downhill wrote:Agreed...If you can't change the outcome of something you know ahead of time...then that would be a "proof" that time is indeed linear.

What if you could actually change the outcome? Would that disprove that time isn't linear?

No , not at all.... you would have control but at some point you would cease to exist.

striker8000 · Post by **striker8000** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:33 am

downhill wrote:What if you could actually change the outcome? Would that disprove that time isn't linear?

been there, done that, forgot to get the t-shirt the second time through, hence I didn't get the t-shirt

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:34 am

striker8000 wrote:actually, I have given up on tracing time, it's definitely not linear, and it's definitely not circular, so...what's left?

by the way...I was able to increase my score from a 'b' to an 'a', so I definitely changed the future (at that time, didn't really affect long-term, but it was interesting, in a wierd way)

Like is said...time just is

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:35 am

Sarahnn wrote:Hi Downhill,

I didn't read the book, but I have some views.

Time is movement. If nothing moved, there would be no process called time. A photo or painting is timeless. But since existence is static, time is the result of accounting for it's passage and preparing for it's arrival. There is an intelligent awareness that gives us the concept of past, present, future.

So I think spatial movement+cognizance= time.

I think the various speeds and angles of spatial movement in relation to the observer determines the relativity. And that is the foremost reason why I believe we can never go back in time.

Interesting subject. Thank you.

Sarahann, I think you pretty much described Einsteins view of time.

What if there was an underlying princple he missed?

What if for instance....the Universe isn't static...that there is enough mass in the Universe that at some time in the future, it quits expanding and starts collasping in on itself.

Time ran (to our perceptions) forward....does it still move in that direction? Or ...does it start "unwinding"?

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:35 am

Izzo wrote:Like is said...time just is

.....Is.... what?

striker8000 · Post by **striker8000** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:36 am

Izzo wrote:Like is said...time just is

I think we are trying to define what "is" is.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:39 am

downhill wrote:Sarahann, I think you pretty much described Einsteins view of time. What if there was an underlying princple he missed? What if for instance....the Universe isn't static...that there is enough mass in the Universe that at some time in the future, it quits expanding and starts collasping on itself.

Time ran (to our perceptions) forward....does it still move in that direction? Or ...does it start "unwinding"?

Isn't that his theory ??... something like ....'accepting that the universe is expanding into nothing .....'

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:41 am

striker8000 wrote:I think we are trying to define what "is" is.

I know .. is just is ... it's existence without awareness...like if the population of the Earth was wiped out... the Earth is still there .. time would then have a different meaning for it than us ...i dunno ..i cant articulate it very well .. sorry

striker8000 · Post by **striker8000** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:42 am

Izzo wrote:I know .. is just is ... it's existence without awareness...like if the population of the Earth was wiped out... the Earth is still there .. time would then have a different meaning for it than us ...i dunno ..i cant articulate it very well .. sorry

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:44 am

Izzo wrote:Isn't that his theory ??... something like ....'accepting that the universe is expanding into nothing .....'

That was my theory..at age 22.....after raising two kids..I've since changed it....to nothingness. It happens.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:45 am

striker8000 wrote:

I'm here all week.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:46 am

Izzo wrote:I know .. is just is ... it's existence without awareness...like if the population of the Earth was wiped out... the Earth is still there .. time would then have a different meaning for it than us ...i dunno ..i cant articulate it very well .. sorry

Agreed that it's a hard subject to define. It's why I put it up for discussion.

Also...we don't have to keep it specifically to if time is linear. Or not..

Let's hear a few of the members..."what ifs".

striker8000 · Post by **striker8000** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:49 am

I've already decided that if time is linear, than I am definitely outside it
and if time is not linear, life is wierder than we all believe

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:50 am

striker8000 wrote:I've already decided that if time is linear, than I am definitely outside it
and if time is not linear, life is wierder than we all believe

You should read "Slaughter House Five".

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:51 am

On that note....

Long hours out working last night...I've decided that my definition of time...for this very instant is "bedtime".

Night everyone.