For Norton Users

[mnosteele52]

For those of you who use Norton Antivirus I want to show you why I think it's terrible. I see this everyday and I decided to do an experiment the next time I had a "real messed up" computer. I have a clients pc with Norton 2004 installed that had not caught a single virus in real-time protection, the definitions were a few weeks out of date so I update them and set heuristics to the highest level. I then scanned the entire hard drive and let Norton fix/quarantine all the viruses it found. I then uninstalled Norton and installed AVG 6.0 FREE, updated it then set it up to scan all files and turned heuristics on. I then scanned the pc with Ad-aware, SpyBot and Spy Sweeper and used HijackThis to finish things off, here are the results:

Norton 2004: 188 items, some viruses and some spyware and deleted 73 items.

AVG 6.0: 13 viruses, repaired 11 of them and sent 2 to the virus vault.

Here is a list of the viruses it found that Norton did not:

Downloader.Apropo.D
Downloader.Alchemic.A (X2)
Downloader.Siboco.B
Backdoor.Ruledoor.C
Downloader.Keenval.B
Downloader.Keenval.C
Downloader.Keenval.J
Dropper.Small.5.J
Downloader.Agent.AR
BackDoor.VB.11.BC (X2)
Downloader.Agent.AS

Ad-aware: 68 items
SpyBot: 131 items
Spy Sweeper: 683 items

This is why I recommend people to uninstall Norton and install AVG 6.0 FREE, while there is no perfect antivirus program there is NO excuse for a FREE antivirus program to find 13 viruses over a product that you pay a lot of money. Norton is also "supposed" to detect spyware as well, you see how well it fared against the other spyware removal programs. Norton is a false sense of security, people post HijackThis logs all the time and said they have scanned for viruses with Norton and said their computer was clean, don't trust it.

I am not posting this to start an argument over what antivirus program is the best, I just want to justify why I recommend what I do. So Norton users please don't take this personally.

[8D] [ ]

[koldchillah]

Does AVG 6 FREE auto-update the definition files without user intervention?

That was my only beef with it the last time I played around with it. It supposedly had all the auto-update settings, but I would constantly have to manually update it..

I can't just install it on someone's PC and then tell them, "OK, your on your own for keeping it up to date. Make sure you click here, here, and here once a week."

[mnosteele52]

Yes AVG 6.0 will auto update, the only downside is that you can only schedule it for once a day and sometimes AVG has more than one update per day. I do have a small program that I haven't personally tried that will auto update when you turn on your pc if an auto update was missed due to the pc being turned off.

[koldchillah]

Yes AVG 6.0 will auto update, the only downside is that you can only schedule it for once a day and sometimes AVG has more than one update per day. I do have a small program that I haven't personally tried that will auto update when you turn on your pc if an auto update was missed due to the pc being turned off.

This was like a year ago for me. I can't remember if it was version 6 or 5 or whatever.. I just remember that on rigs that ran 24/7, they were'nt getting updated according to the schedule I had set and it pissed me off to the point I unistalled it b/c I got tired of having to manually check the virus defs every time I logged into a PC w/ AVG installed. If they fixed that, then I'll give grisoft another shot when I get to that road again.

[YeOldeStonecat]

But were there any actual viruses that it missed? What if you didn't run AVG, and just let AdAware and Spybot S&D run, which you would have done anyways, would they have caught them. Because you'd be running those anyways. And they seem like most just run of the mill adware files than an actual virus like Blaster, NetSky, Pretty Pink, whatever.

If AdAware or Spybot got those files, and most people use those programs anyways, they I don't see how at Norton user is more at risk. You're counting little adware files, not viruses. It's a gray area, and certain some people may call them a virus while others don't, I don't, I lump them as malware which IMO is what AdAware and Spybot are for. Barely fit the definition of a trojan. Granted I'm not a big fan of their retail consumer products, just their corporate edition stuff (currently onsite doing a network upgrade of version 9.0 at an insurance company down in New Haven)

Did you further scan with TrendMicro to see if AVG missed anything? TM usually is very strong in the trojan area, somewhat good at viruses, but I've noticed it's good at trojans.

On the flip side....that oddball zipped file that MMione posted the other day from whatever the heck forum it was at.....how come AVG found far less viruses than the others we posted, like Symantec CE? Hrrrmmmm.....? I was gonna post something about that, but I refrained...

[ritaann]

For those of you who use Norton Antivirus I want to show you why I think it's terrible. I see this everyday and I decided to do an experiment the next time I had a "real messed up" computer. I have a clients pc with Norton 2004 installed that had not caught a single virus in real-time protection, the definitions were a few weeks out of date so I update them and set heuristics to the highest level. I then scanned the entire hard drive and let Norton fix/quarantine all the viruses it found. I then uninstalled Norton and installed AVG 6.0 FREE, updated it then set it up to scan all files and turned heuristics on. I then scanned the pc with Ad-aware, SpyBot and Spy Sweeper and used HijackThis to finish things off, here are the results:

Norton 2004: 188 items, some viruses and some spyware and deleted 73 items.

AVG 6.0: 13 viruses, repaired 11 of them and sent 2 to the virus vault.

Here is a list of the viruses it found that Norton did not:

Downloader.Apropo.D
Downloader.Alchemic.A (X2)
Downloader.Siboco.B
Backdoor.Ruledoor.C
Downloader.Keenval.B
Downloader.Keenval.C
Downloader.Keenval.J
Dropper.Small.5.J
Downloader.Agent.AR
BackDoor.VB.11.BC (X2)
Downloader.Agent.AS

Ad-aware: 68 items
SpyBot: 131 items
Spy Sweeper: 683 items

This is why I recommend people to uninstall Norton and install AVG 6.0 FREE, while there is no perfect antivirus program there is NO excuse for a FREE antivirus program to find 13 viruses over a product that you pay a lot of money. Norton is also "supposed" to detect spyware as well, you see how well it fared against the other spyware removal programs. Norton is a false sense of security, people post HijackThis logs all the time and said they have scanned for viruses with Norton and said their computer was clean, don't trust it.

I am not posting this to start an argument over what antivirus program is the best, I just want to justify why I recommend what I do. So Norton users please don't take this personally.

[8D] [ ]

hello
i have norton and i dont take it personaly am glad to hear about your findings--i have adaware and sybot S&D also and noticed they are always finding stuff that norton doesnt but its usually spyware and i didnt know if norton was only supposed to find virus'es or what.anyway it gives me pause to think and wonder
thanks
Rita

[mnosteele52]

On the flip side....that oddball zipped file that MMione posted the other day from whatever the heck forum it was at.....how come AVG found far less viruses than the others we posted, like Symantec CE? Hrrrmmmm.....? I was gonna post something about that, but I refrained...

My question with that file was how many actual files were in it and who declared how many were actual viruses? I have seen Kaspersky on more than one occasion give many false positives. I'm as curious as you to these questions.

As far as Ad-aware and other spyware removal programs finding these things..... I know it would not have found all of them, possibly some but not all, for example Ruledoor, that is an old virus and Norton never detects it.

To me it's irrelevant that other programs would find these viruses, the point is people pay good money for Norton because it "rated #1" and a free program finds multiple things it misses..... there is no excuse for that.

I will be the first to admit that there isn't a perfect program but I see this same thing day in and day out and people still waste their money on Norton.

Norton's spyware detection is a joke, there is no question about that.

[mnosteele52]

Did you further scan with TrendMicro to see if AVG missed anything?

TM says it's clean.

[YeOldeStonecat]

I think that's the difference though...which brand AV calls what a virus. Those listed that you had, I wouldn't call those viruses, I'd call them adware. (at least most of them, there's a couple I'd have to read up on...but overall, their barely a nuisance)...hence really the realm of an ad/spyware removal program.

If you found it had mised viruses and worms like MyDoom, Gaobot, Beagle, NetSky, etc....then I'd start wondering what was up.

[darlin]

You said that AVG updates sometimes twice a day, and the auto updater only checks once per day. My question is can you manually check for upgrades within AVG's interface?
Thanks

[cyberskye]

Yep. But doesn't matter - windows is a petri dish.

[blebs]

Antivirus? I don't need no stinking antivirus! I'm tough.

[YeOldeStonecat]

My question is can you manually check for upgrades within AVG's interface?
Thanks

You can manually check for updates...yes. Dunno what you mean by "upgrades". Just push a button on the Updater.

I'm not sure how close you can reel it in timewise to check for updates.....I don't have a running copy at home. I know on NOD32, you can set it to check as often as every hour for updates, which is good because I've seen several in a day (at least 3 or 4).

[darlin]

You can manually check for updates...yes. Dunno what you mean by "upgrades". Just push a button on the Updater.

I don't know why I typed upgrades. I meant updates. Thanks for the reply.

[mmione]

I'm using NOD32 atm and I love it. I don't think those eyes are for rolling eyes, I think it means. I feel like a jackass about my previous statements

[OneLuv]

I am a user of Norton however, I cannot say I'm a fan. I also have AVG and on occassion, AVG has found viruses that Norton never picked up. I also use Adaware, Noadaware, several spyware programs, trojan and Hijacker blaster programs. The all seem to find thing that the others do not. I have my Norton's set for automatic update, but atypical of Norton, I still have to click to get the updates. Right now, I keep getting a notification from AVG that there is a trojan in my system restore, that no one else has notified me of. Being fairly new to computer, I can't voice an opinion either way just yet. But I will say that Norton doesn't reign supreme.

[Courtney]

I use Symantec (Norton) Antivirus for a specific reason: AVG, nor any of the other free programs do not have the capability to auto update 3500 systems, update those systems within hours of their releases, run automatic scans without user intervention, run on Microsoft Exchange Server, or generate reports, all while supporting Macintosh, Unix, and Windows systems.

When another program supports all that, I'll be on board.

courtney sends....

[qball15j]

I realize this thread is kind of old but the auto-update feature in AVG is going to be added to the next FREE version which will be v7. I've been trying the beta version at a client's office for a few weeks now. Seems to be doing fine, except SP2 getting in the way. All their machines are shutdown at nigh and over the weekends. At next restart the Security Center pops up complaining about AVG being out of date. I think the issue with SP2 and AV software is happening to everyone though, not just AVG so I cant really complain to much. Only way around this is to tell SP2, you have control over your AV software.

[Croc]

Right now, I keep getting a notification from AVG that there is a trojan in my system restore, that no one else has notified me of. Being fairly new to computer, I can't voice an opinion either way just yet. But I will say that Norton doesn't reign supreme.

Hi there Mr.Purpleprintguy.

It's there in Sys Restore cause it was imported prior to your last Restore Point. Just uncheck/turn off System Restore and close it. Then scan again.

Never had to use Norton. Always used AVG6 or InnoculateIT PE. Trialed a few different ones but returned to AVG6 even after trialing AVG7. I have used the online scanner at Symantic and never had a virus/trojan/worm identified.

Are we looking at a list of virus', viri, viruses here.
Downloader.Apropo.D
Downloader.Alchemic.A (X2)
Downloader.Siboco.B
Backdoor.Ruledoor.C
Downloader.Keenval.B
Downloader.Keenval.C
Downloader.Keenval.J
Dropper.Small.5.J
Downloader.Agent.AR
BackDoor.VB.11.BC (X2)
Downloader.Agent.AS

Maybe not.... goto http://grc.com/downloaders.htm for a "Downloader" definition and http://anti-trojan.com/ for "Trojan".

Should your AV program take on the responsibility for the control of these or should the supplier concentrate on giving a better detection rate and faster update delivery leaving the other scumware to the professionals in that area.

JMHO

Croc.

Oh..... Mr.Purpleprintguy. You might like to post in a less colourful fashion.
Welcome to the Security Forum at SG.

[koldchillah]

Yes AVG 6.0 will auto update, the only downside is that you can only schedule it for once a day and sometimes AVG has more than one update per day. I do have a small program that I haven't personally tried that will auto update when you turn on your pc if an auto update was missed due to the pc being turned off.

I tried AVG again recently, but couldn't get the update feature to work, AGAIN!.. It kept saying something about "automatic connection could not be established, please establish manaul connection and try again"..

After re-installing a couple times, googling around and scouring the AVG site, I simply came to the conclusion that its bulls*** that I should even be having to deal with this type of problem in the first place..

I went over to Avast's site and had a fully functional, problem-free, autoupdating AV app running on my system in just a few minutes.. I haven't looked back since.. I also had a friend of mine call me with the same issue after I had recommended AVG to them.. Thats 3 strikes.. AVG is OUT!

Regardless, I haven't been personally affected by a virus since the Monkey.B got me off an infected floppy from school, almost a decade ago.

[YeOldeStonecat]

I think the issue with SP2 and AV software is happening to everyone though, not just AVG so I cant really complain to much. Only way around this is to tell SP2, you have control over your AV software.

I haven't had an issue with NOD32 or Symantec Corp Edition and XPSP2.

[YeOldeStonecat]

I use Symantec (Norton) Antivirus for a specific reason: AVG, nor any of the other free programs do not have the capability to auto update 3500 systems, update those systems within hours of their releases, run automatic scans without user intervention, run on Microsoft Exchange Server, or generate reports, all while supporting Macintosh, Unix, and Windows systems.

When another program supports all that, I'll be on board.

courtney sends....

I'm guessing you're referring to their Corporate Edition as far as network management...I agree, it's a great package, I use it at most of my clients. I can say that NOD32 has warmed me up with their network package, it's also quite robust, I've started using it more and more. I know they have some *nix mail server packages, although I don't believe they have a CrApple package.

[OneLuv]

Sorry about the colors, I'll keep it simple from now on. Thanks for the info Mr. Croc on how to get that darn thing out of my system restore. I will be starting school in November for a degree in computer information systems, so so I'll be able to talk the lingo as well. I have a friend who ditched Norton for Avast after her frequent mishaps. She swears by it.I myself had one when I purchased the download version of Norton's Internet security. Seems when I downloaded, I got a nast virus and all tech support could suggest was to reformat a newly loaded computer, with 80gigs of info and graphics. He swore up and down I didn't get it when I downloaded from their site. Also woke up this morning to AVG detecting 2 My Doom worms, that Norton didn't pick up either. Someone recommended TrendMicroSystems sp? any advice. I'd rather add to the protection I have at this point since I know little, than to remove anything.

Thanks again for the info eveyone.

BTW Mr. Purpleprintguy is actually a gal

[YeOldeStonecat]

Someone recommended TrendMicroSystems sp? any advice.

They are pretty good, definitely improved over the years. Doing well lately in the ratings by trusted sources.
http://www.virusbulletin.com/vb100/arch ... oducts.xml

One neat feature they have, is a free online scan called "HouseCall", which you use through your web browser. It's free, and it's a good second opinion! ]http://www.nod32.com[/url]
They have a free trial you can use. It's a VERY lightweight antivirus (doesn't bog down your system like many do), very fast scans, frequent automatic updates (by default, checks for updates hourly...so ZERO manual intervention is needed)
Check out their results at Virusbulletin.com....you'll find their score is unparalleled.

[Croc]

Sorry about the colors, I'll keep it simple from now on. Thanks for the info Mr. Croc on how to get that darn thing out of my system restore. I will be starting school in November for a degree in computer information systems, so so I'll be able to talk the lingo as well. I have a friend who ditched Norton for Avast after her frequent mishaps. She swears by it.I myself had one when I purchased the download version of Norton's Internet security. Seems when I downloaded, I got a nast virus and all tech support could suggest was to reformat a newly loaded computer, with 80gigs of info and graphics. He swore up and down I didn't get it when I downloaded from their site. Also woke up this morning to AVG detecting 2 My Doom worms, that Norton didn't pick up either. Someone recommended TrendMicroSystems sp? any advice. I'd rather add to the protection I have at this point since I know little, than to remove anything.

Thanks again for the info eveyone.

http://www.trendmicro.com/en/home/us/personal.htm for the Trend Micro Personal user page. Check out their online scanner as well.

BTW Mr. Purpleprintguy is actually a gal

That's ok. I'll forgive ya.

Croc.

[Sava700]

Norton is awful as in my opinion any computer I've cleaned and worked on that had it really just was screwed up either by the software itself or what things it never fixed during scans. I endorce Mcafee to anyone wanting a good virus software its very reliable from what I've seen hell they even offer a free program "Stinger" to help you out just in case. Only prob I have with any virus program is they should offer a stand alone price$$ for it on a perm install and updates for ever and not have to keep renewing it!

[Sid]

Sorry about the colors, I'll keep it simple from now on.

Tell Croc to show his shinny teeth and bit you I like the comic font.

I've been using NAV 9.0 CE for a few days. It has been catching things that the older version wouldn't, especially the mail server ware the other versions wouldn't even quarantine the virus and would let infect the mail clients.