obama, where was he born?

[Gixxer]

It shows how weak both candidates issues are, and how easily swayed the jerry springer fan voter is, that this late in the game they still haven't said anything concrete and important yet.

jerry springer fan voter....lol ....no.

i am not swayed by this, but when i hear something like this, i sometimes like to look into it.

[YARDofSTUF]

jerry springer fan voter....lol ....no.

i am not swayed by this, but when i hear something like this, i sometimes like to look into it.

The comment wasn't directed at you, just about the average american voter.

[Gixxer]

The comment wasn't directed at you, just about the average american voter.

well, i am a pretty average american, but try to stay somewhat in the know about important things.

[Prey521]

It shows how weak both candidates issues are, and how easily swayed the jerry springer fan voter is, that this late in the game they still haven't said anything concrete and important yet.

This election year reminds me of the movie slogan from AVP, "Whoever wins, we lose"

[JawZ]

you are right. you would do this because of the reasons you listed. me on the other hand, do not know for a fact if he is and have no documentation/proof to say he is. as far as you saying philip slamming me for posting this. uhhhhhh, where?

The argument that he's not a citized has been refuted in court more than once.

In that latest accusation the judge ruled that Berg's attempts to use certain laws to gain standing to pursue his claim that Obama was not a natural-born citizen were "frivolous and not worthy of discussion."

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/33294494.html
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... e_usa.html
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bi ... ficate.asp

It's just another smear tactic imho.

Right there Gixxer. Philip just posted OLD evidence that refutes what you suggest.


And again, you even ignore what downhill posted.

That said, it would be nice for once, when you put up one of your posts, to at least comment on it.


It's been proved false and reported on, over and over and over, yet this myth persists among people who only hear what they want to hear.

So you knew all along that it was a video that would cause controversy....that's why you didn't comment on it. But now, you not only have a mod saying that you are wrong, you even have the forum ADMINISTRATOR saying you are wrong. LOL


And this is exactly what I'm talking about....people like you that KNOWINGLY post lies, falsehoods, untruths, etc.

This is also why people lose civility with you because even though we have concrete evidence to refute your lies...you refuse to believe it.

This is no longer an opinion of yours that requires respect....you have been proven WRONG.


So why did you post the video Gixxer?

[Gixxer]

Right there Gixxer. Philip just posted OLD evidence that refutes what you suggest.


And again, you even ignore what downhill posted.




So you knew all along that it was a video that would cause controversy....that's why you didn't comment on it. But now, you not only have a mod saying that you are wrong, you even have the forum ADMINISTRATOR saying you are wrong. LOL


And this is exactly what I'm talking about....people like you that KNOWINGLY post lies, falsehoods, untruths, etc.

This is also why people lose civility with you because even though we have concrete evidence to refute your lies...you refuse to believe it.

This is no longer an opinion of yours that requires respect....you have been proven WRONG.


So why did you post the video Gixxer?

i did not know the vid would cause controversy and did not know it was/is a lie (maybe until after the links). philip merely posted something that might let me see differently that i had not seen before (not slammed me as you put it). people lose civility because they cannot handle themselves properly (you for instance and myself in some cases). take a pill have a drink and get a grip.

[JawZ]

i did not know the vid would cause controversy and did not know it was/is a lie (maybe until after the links). philip merely posted something that might let me see differently that i had not seen before (not slammed me as you put it). people lose civility because they cannot handle themselves properly (you for instance and myself in some cases). take a pill have a drink and get a grip.

See, you just can't control your temper when faced with the facts. Telling me to

take a pill have a drink and get a grip.

is civil?


I would never say that to anyone because it's inflammatory.


So in essence, what you are saying by your own above admission is that you truly did not know that United States Senator Barack Obama is and always has been a United States CITIZEN?????????????


So why didn't you just PM somebody and ask?


Why didn't you ask the question in the forums without the video attached?


Why did you post the video without commenting or asking if it was true or not?


Your post title says it all.....you asked:

Obama, where was he born? And then you proceeded to post a video that promotes a conspiracy theory that somehow Obama is NOT a US Citizen.


What is your agenda in posting a video that promotes this smear of Senator Obama?

[Brent]

I will never believe that Obama is really a US citizen. I will never believe how everyone is just sweeping it under the rug and letting him be a presidential nominee. I will never believe how anyone could vote for this guy who has no experience and just talks and talks but has no answers. I will never believe why everyone thinks of him as the savior of America.

[downhill]

The "savior/messiah" message is just another RNC talking points to turn off the moral majority. Really it gets pretty old. I guess the DNC could have done the same thing to Romney but yet they didn't when he was making his bid. lol

He has a messege Brent. You just need to actually listen to it. Doesn't matter if you believe him or not.

Now as to not being a U.S. citizen. I suppose you can argue with federal judges all day long but the fact is, if he wasn't, he couldn't run for president. I don't know why that's so hard to understand. LOL

[Philip]

I just posted some relevant information to shed more light on the topic, you cannot conclude that Gixxer "knowingly posts lies, falsehoods, untruths" to stir the pot.

UOD, you can't deny that there was some controversy around the issue, even if unfounded, so naturally there are going to be people on both sides of the argument, regardless of evidence on either side. You can't expect or demand everyone to agree, even looking at the same facts. All you can do is express/justify your position, point to the facts, and hope that reasonable people come to the correct conclusions... *shrug*

[Brent]

He has a messege Brent. You just need to actually listen to it. Doesn't matter if you believe him or not.

Oh he's got a message, that is clear, "change" whatever that is. Some change is good, some change is bad, his change is bad. He has no answers, he is all talk, just a bunch of hot air to appease the masses.

[downhill]

Oh he's got a message, that is clear, "change" whatever that is. Some change is good, some change is bad, his change is bad. He has no answers, he is all talk, just a bunch of hot air to appease the masses.

Wouldn't that make him just like Bush and any other politician? Are all of them messiahs?

[Philip]

I will never believe that Obama is really a US citizen. I will never believe how everyone is just sweeping it under the rug and letting him be a presidential nominee.

Brent, there are official records that are easily accessible, documents are numbered and recorded. If you don't believe that Obama is a US citizen you're saying that you do not believe the US judicial system that examined it and concluded that he is.

I will never believe how anyone could vote for this guy who has no experience and just talks and talks but has no answers. I will never believe why everyone thinks of him as the savior of America.

Career politicians (on both sides of the isle) by definition are able to talk without giving real answers, are in the business of getting (re)elected, and are pressured/supported by very influential interest groups. One should look into the discussed issues and the implications of their "solutions" before making that judgement.

I don't want to get off on a rant here, but I'm tired of the media and candidates discussing Joe the plumber, Joe six-pack, fact stretching and overall cheap personal attacks instead of covering real issues and objectively disecting the implications of their policies. The "News" is turning into one huge soap opera, argh.

[JawZ]

I just posted some relevant information to shed more light on the topic, you cannot conclude that Gixxer "knowingly posts lies, falsehoods, untruths" to stir the pot.

UOD, you can't deny that there was some controversy around the issue, even if unfounded, so naturally there are going to be people on both sides of the argument, regardless of evidence on either side. You can't expect or demand everyone to agree, even looking at the same facts. All you can do is express/justify your position, point to the facts, and hope that reasonable people come to the correct conclusions... *shrug*

I can conclude that Gixxer "knowingly posts lies, falsehoods, untruths" to stir the pot based on the timeline of the facts Philip. The "controversy" was manufactured. It was a lie. There is no controversy.

So am I to conclude that Gixxer is unreasonable being that he posted this after it has been concluded that Senator Obama is in fact a US Citizen?

I have Gixxer down for the count and he's ready to tap out....I'm doing exactly as you asked, so why are you now trying to spare him?

[Gixxer]

See, you just can't control your temper when faced with the facts. Telling me to

is civil?


I would never say that to anyone because it's inflammatory.


So in essence, what you are saying by your own above admission is that you truly did not know that United States Senator Barack Obama is and always has been a United States CITIZEN?????????????


So why didn't you just PM somebody and ask?


Why didn't you ask the question in the forums without the video attached?


Why did you post the video without commenting or asking if it was true or not?


Your post title says it all.....you asked:

Obama, where was he born? And then you proceeded to post a video that promotes a conspiracy theory that somehow Obama is NOT a US Citizen.


What is your agenda in posting a video that promotes this smear of Senator Obama?

my post of take a pill, have a drink and get a grip = relax, imo, you are too wound up about things like this

as far as "obama where was he born", correctly identifies that i did not and truly do not know, but now have more info to read and find out.

below quote .... slammed huh? good take on it.

I just posted some relevant information to shed more light on the topic, you cannot conclude that Gixxer "knowingly posts lies, falsehoods, untruths" to stir the pot.

UOD, you can't deny that there was some controversy around the issue, even if unfounded, so naturally there are going to be people on both sides of the argument, regardless of evidence on either side. You can't expect or demand everyone to agree, even looking at the same facts. All you can do is express/justify your position, point to the facts, and hope that reasonable people come to the correct conclusions... *shrug*

[brembo]

I will never believe that Obama is really a US citizen. I will never believe how everyone is just sweeping it under the rug and letting him be a presidential nominee. I will never believe how anyone could vote for this guy who has no experience and just talks and talks but has no answers. I will never believe why everyone thinks of him as the savior of America.

Brent-

Is there a gas leak in your computer room? Because the only reason someone could put together such an incredibly dumb and thoughtless string of words is lack of oxygen to the brain, IMO of course.

Remember when Clinton got his knob polished by a slightly overweight CONSENTING adult? The republicans tried to have him impeached for denying it. A blohejhob*, not citizenship which is a pretty big deal in terms of "things you must be" to be the prez. If there was even a glimmer of truth to the idea that Obama is not a full on, 100% United States citizen, the republicans would be dancing in the streets. It just ain't so.

[David]

I do believe it is a fair question, especially when there are some in Kenya who insist he was born on their soil. It would seem he has his duck in a row.

How about McCain being born in Panama? Sure it was the canal zone, leased to the US at the time... but hey, why not mess with the old guy.

[Prey521]

I will never believe that Obama is really a US citizen. I will never believe how everyone is just sweeping it under the rug and letting him be a presidential nominee. I will never believe how anyone could vote for this guy who has no experience and just talks and talks but has no answers. I will never believe why everyone thinks of him as the savior of America.

I'll give you the no experience part, as well as the Messiah aspect, but if he's a citizen, then he's a citizen. If the evidence is there, then why not believe it?

[Prey521]

I do believe it is a fair question, especially when there are some in Kenya who insist he was born on their soil. It would seem he has his duck in a row.

His grandmother swears to the fact that she was the the bedside when he was "born" in Kenya. BAH, can't wait till the 5th when this whole sham is over.

[Ken]

Nor directing at Obama, per say, however, fake birth certificates are quite common, especially ones with-out the raised or embossed seals, which originals of that era typically had... Reproductions do not though. If it is real, it really shouldn't be any problem to get an offical copy from Hawaii's Dept of Health though...

[JawZ]

my post of take a pill, have a drink and get a grip = relax, imo, you are too wound up about things like this

as far as "obama where was he born", correctly identifies that i did not and truly do not know, but now have more info to read and find out.

below quote .... slammed huh? good take on it.

Philip slammed you with EVIDENCE.


so again, if you did not know, why did you post a video instead of asking the question?


Why didn't your post look like this:

Question about Senator Obama:

Hey guys, not sure about this but I was wondering if Senator Obama was an American citizen. I've been seeing alot of stuff that might suggest he's not. Help me out.


So imo, you could have had a much better response and a very good debate if you had posted in that matter.

The forum is about discovery and how to substantiate your point of view with credible evidence. the more evidence we have, the faster we can build consensus....and that will lead to fact based solutions.

[Philip]

Nor directing at Obama, per say, however, fake birth certificates are quite common, especially ones with-out the raised or embossed seals, which originals of that era typically had... Reproductions do not though. If it is real, it really shouldn't be any problem to get an offical copy from Hawaii's Dept of Health though...

There are pictures of it on factcheck with the raised seal showing, the number, etc. and as you said, should be easily treceable in the system. The certificate is an official copy, has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship, it is stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka, etc.

[Gixxer]

I can conclude that Gixxer "knowingly posts lies, falsehoods, untruths" to stir the pot based on the timeline of the facts Philip. The "controversy" was manufactured. It was a lie. There is no controversy.

So am I to conclude that Gixxer is unreasonable being that he posted this after it has been concluded that Senator Obama is in fact a US Citizen?

I have Gixxer down for the count and he's ready to tap out....I'm doing exactly as you asked, so why are you now trying to spare him?

[Gixxer]

Philip slammed you with EVIDENCE.


so again, if you did not know, why did you post a video instead of asking the question?


Why didn't your post look like this:

Question about Senator Obama:

Hey guys, not sure about this but I was wondering if Senator Obama was an American citizen. I've been seeing alot of stuff that might suggest he's not. Help me out.


So imo, you could have had a much better response and a very good debate if you had posted in that matter.

The forum is about discovery and how to substantiate your point of view with credible evidence. the more evidence we have, the faster we can build consensus....and that will lead to fact based solutions.

why didn't i ask the question??? are you serious? maybe you should reread the thread title.

[Gixxer]

Philip slammed you with EVIDENCE.


so again, if you did not know, why did you post a video instead of asking the question?


Why didn't your post look like this:

Question about Senator Obama:

Hey guys, not sure about this but I was wondering if Senator Obama was an American citizen. I've been seeing alot of stuff that might suggest he's not. Help me out.


So imo, you could have had a much better response and a very good debate if you had posted in that matter.

The forum is about discovery and how to substantiate your point of view with credible evidence. the more evidence we have, the faster we can build consensus....and that will lead to fact based solutions.

funny, i asked the question in the thread title and then posted a vid to show why i asked. i did not think it was that hard to understand. i guess that is what i get for doing my own thinking of some of your guys' understanding.

[JawZ]

funny, i asked the question in the thread title and then posted a vid to show why i asked. i did not think it was that hard to understand. i guess that is what i get for doing my own thinking of some of your guys' understanding.

So now you are telling us that the video you selected was in support of your admitted ignorance on the subject and that instead of researching it further on your own....you decided to ask us for guidance on the matter?

Would this be a true statement?


So here is my expert guidance on the matter since you requested it.

Keep researching the issue and get back to us when you have drawn your own conclusions on the matter. I'd be greatly interested to hear your own personal take on the subject material.

[Brent]

i readed this, makes sense - http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

[YARDofSTUF]

Oh he's got a message, that is clear, "change" whatever that is. Some change is good, some change is bad, his change is bad. He has no answers, he is all talk, just a bunch of hot air to appease the masses.

Very biased, closed minded, and almost hateful coming from you.

[Brent]

Very biased, closed minded, and almost hateful coming from you.

It is my opinion of the man. I will not be voting for Obama. I do not see how anyone could to be honest.

[knightmare]

Hawaii Issues Birth Certificates to Foreign Born Residents...
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/ ... index.html



A. From Hawaii's official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country (applies to adopted children).

B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.

C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.

D. Hawaiian law, however, expressly acknowledges that its system is subject to error. See, for example, HRS 338-17.

E. Hawaiian law expressly provides for verification in lieu of certified copy of a birth certificate under HRS 338-14.3.

F. Even the Hawaii Department of Home Lands does not accept a certified copy of a birth certificate as conclusive evidence for its homestead program. From its web site: In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.

[jeremyboycool]

That certificate is supposed to have a some sort of Seal like the one below, which is where the controversy lies.

I have two completely different birth certificates. Seals are different; in fact they are different altogether. My original got damaged and need to be replaced. If you'll look it is clear the two certificates are different in age.

*Edit well I can't read the original anymore it may not be official. But neither does my new one have two stamps like the one you posted.

[jeremyboycool]

If you ask me the reason there is a difference in the two is because of the age difference of the documents

[jeremyboycool]

How about McCain being born in Panama? Sure it was the canal zone, leased to the US at the time... but hey, why not mess with the old guy.

Because he is white.

[Brk]

Hawaii Issues Birth Certificates to Foreign Born Residents...
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/ ... index.html



A. From Hawaii's official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country (applies to adopted children).

B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.

C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.

D. Hawaiian law, however, expressly acknowledges that its system is subject to error. See, for example, HRS 338-17.

E. Hawaiian law expressly provides for verification in lieu of certified copy of a birth certificate under HRS 338-14.3.

F. Even the Hawaii Department of Home Lands does not accept a certified copy of a birth certificate as conclusive evidence for its homestead program. From its web site: In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.

lol @ this being ignored

[knightmare]

lol.. anyway here was my source for the original info,--,

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data ... 1228856519

[knightmare]

There are pictures of it on factcheck with the raised seal showing, the number, etc. and as you said, should be easily treceable in the system. The certificate is an official copy, has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship, it is stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka, etc.

It has a 2007 border and doesnt list the hospital or Dr.


The picture you displayed is what Obama has on his site as his real birth certificate authenticated by Snopes and Factcheck. Hmmm - 2007 borders, no info on original at all? Whats wrong with this picture? Yes it is a real birth certificate, so are the tens of thousands of other birth certificates given to people born in other countries.

[JawZ]

It has a 2007 border and doesnt list the hospital or Dr.


The picture you displayed is what Obama has on his site as his real birth certificate authenticated by Snopes and Factcheck. Hmmm - 2007 borders, no info on original at all? Whats wrong with this picture? Yes it is a real birth certificate, so are the tens of thousands of other birth certificates given to people born in other countries.

So how do you explain this:

Further, a birth announcement in the Aug. 13, 1961, Honolulu Advertiser listed Obama's birth there on Aug. 4. *

Is the conspiracy in the microfiche as well?


I'm 100% for a thorough investigation but it just doesn't seem likely there is a conspiracy.

[knightmare]

actually his birth was in 2 newspapers- The Honolulu Advertiser and the Star Bulletin.

It doesn't matter, they choose by royal bloodlines, Obama is a cousin to Dick Cheney & others. Sarah Palin is a cousin to Princess Diana & Roosevelt.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/FOX_Obama ... _1017.html


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... a-related/

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/ ... HJ20081008

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/20081010 ... cousin.htm

[Brk]

Obama's opened the door...now Schwarzenegger's said he (EDIT) would like to be president. Betcha Orrin Hatch's dream comes true...an amendment altering Article Two to allow non-native citizens to become president.

EDIT for link: arnoldexposed.com

[knightmare]

Obama's opened the door...now Schwarzenegger's said he (EDIT) would like to be president. Betcha Orrin Hatch's dream comes true...an amendment altering Article Two to allow non-native citizens to become president.

EDIT for link: arnoldexposed.com

lol.. he goes official on the Solstice(Dec.21st)....

President Schwarzenegger? Arnold "Absolutely" Wants The Top Job

Video..etc

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/2 ... 52728.html

California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger tells "60 Minutes" correspondent Scott Pelley that he would "absolutely" like to be U.S. president if the Constitution could be changed to allow foreign-born Americans to run for the White House.