Congressman introduces bill to decriminalize personal marijuana use

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:47 am

Gixxer wrote:marijuana is a stepping stone for ALL other drugs ... and it is foolish to think otherwise

Yeah dude, I smoked a joint and next thing I knew I was tappin veins for some horse.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:49 am

you guys are arguing about much smaller point than what the real concern/problem is. pot leading to other drugs that are way worse and make you do worse things.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:51 am

brembo wrote:Yeah dude, I smoked a joint and next thing I knew I was tappin veins for some horse.

i have to go back and read what i wrote ... wait no i don't, because i know i did not say anything like overnight as you have just insinuated. kinda like football loss and surgery death.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:55 am

Originally Posted by brembo
Beer/alcohol is legal and I'll argue that it kills/ruins more lives than weed. Cigarettes are legal and kill people...KILL.

I could give a flip if weed is legal, however I don't see it as dangerous as meth/crack/heroin.

what do you think leads to the harder drugs?

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:00 am

sito wrote:The drug user no matter what substance; started out with them feeling incomplete. Of course kids try things as many of us have. They remain and/or become addicted to drugs because they're filling a gap in their life. A gap or place that wasn't filled in by their parents. It could be not knowing your dad, your mom being an alcoholic, being beaten, diddled and the list goes on.
I had fantastic parents, but I know I drink a lot more than I should as an assist to coping with life. It isn't the drugs so much as it's our failure to properly raise our children. That has become very apparent to me over the last decade or so. Raised by TV.

Kids start to do drugs out of curiosity, they stay doing drugs because of the lack of parenting or abuse. There are exceptions but, try and prove I just said wrong.

I was doing crack at 17, I made it threw from family roots that didn't even know I was doing it. Friends from that same period, I can't say the same. The difference is I had firm roots. The thought of being ashamed if my father found out, was the factor between me being me now, and not not frying my brain on crack anymore.

It matters when you tell your kids they will be somebody.

Raised by TV. What I'm saying is, it isn't so much the drugs (which are super bad these days) as us failing to tend to our young.

Billy didn't shoot his classmate because he was high. He did it because he was high and had no foundation.

i previously said the same thing that i bolded in you statement. it was contradicted by izzo, brembo, or maybe yos (i think one of them).

****waits for contradiction to your statement****

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:03 am

Gixxer-

Tell me how or why pot opens up the door to harder drugs. Is it physological, is it a proximity thing, what is it exactly about pot that somehow makes heroin and coke and meth and crack seem like a good idea?

BTW, Benedryl makes me crave Sudafed.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:09 am

brembo wrote:Gixxer-

Tell me how or why pot opens up the door to harder drugs. Is it physological, is it a proximity thing, what is it exactly about pot that somehow makes heroin and coke and meth and crack seem like a good idea?

BTW, Benedryl makes me crave Sudafed.

who do you know that woke up one day and has never did a drug and then picked up a needle or crack pipe. nobody i know. but EVERYONE I KNOW INCLUDING MYSELF, that has/does harder drugs, first took a toke of the green. if you ran a poll in any major newspaper, it would be 99% that the first drug was pot.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:11 am

brembo wrote:Gixxer-

Tell me how or why pot opens up the door to harder drugs. Is it physological, is it a proximity thing, what is it exactly about pot that somehow makes heroin and coke and meth and crack seem like a good idea?

BTW, Benedryl makes me crave Sudafed.

Don't argue....he knows.....and it's clearly a feeble attempt to bait as the first post he picks out of almost 4 pages is mine. It's not a stepping stone, Brembo and the reasonable people in this thread know also. It's a scapegoat and has been for decades.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:15 am

Izzo wrote:Don't argue....he knows.....and it's clearly a feeble attempt to bait as the first post he picks out of almost 4 pages is mine. It's not a stepping stone, Brembo and the reasonable people in this thread know also. It's a scapegoat and has been for decades.

it is no bait, i am done arguing with you as i have no energy ior drive for it anymore ... yours was the first i came i across i felt i had a response to from a personal standpoint.

so maybe you can answer the question of who starts out on crack/heroin/meth?

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:16 am

Izzo wrote:Don't argue....he knows.....and it's clearly a feeble attempt to bait as the first post he picks out of almost 4 pages is mine. It's not a stepping stone, Brembo and the reasonable people in this thread know also. It's a scapegoat and has been for decades.

Tell that to the D.E.A.

Q. Is marijuana a gateway drug?

Yes. Among marijuana's most harmful consequences is its role in leading to the use of other illegal drugs like heroin and cocaine. Long-term studies of students who use drugs show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana. While not all people who use marijuana go on to use other drugs, using marijuana sometimes lowers inhibitions about drug use and exposes users to a culture that encourages use of other drugs.

The risk of using cocaine has been estimated to be more than 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it.

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:21 am

How is it that I know literally hundreds of people that went to college, I'll go as LOW as 75% smoked weed on a semi-regular basis while in college. Now out of that bunch, only a small handful ended up on anything "harder" than weed? And lemme tell ya the few that experimented with the harder stuff ALREADY abused alcohol. I think it's a mindset that exists before the initial toke of weed.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:25 am

Roody wrote:Tell that to the D.E.A.

I don't buy the propaganda. If it were truly a gateway to hardcore narcotics it's value as an alternative source of treatment for numerous ailments including those dying of aids and cancer wouldn't be where it is now nor would there be this much energy to decriminalize it. Like I said...before ...don't buy into the reefer madness mentality of the 50's and think for yourself....The DEA just wants their funding....cause they're sure winning that war on drugs

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:26 am

brembo wrote:How is it that I know literally hundreds of people that went to college, I'll go as LOW as 75% smoked weed on a semi-regular basis while in college. Now out of that bunch, only a small handful ended up on anything "harder" than weed? And lemme tell ya the few that experimented with the harder stuff ALREADY abused alcohol. I think it's a mindset that exists before the initial toke of weed.

You bring up something I mentioned earlier and it's a big reason why Izzo's blanket statement is incorrect. Truth is it's all based on the individual person. For some it could lead to more drug use and for others it won't. Not sure I would call marijuana anymore of a gateway drug then I would cigarettes or alcohol. When I made my statements earlier I was speaking solely within the context of marijuana itself. Naturally alcohol and cigs can be abused also. For the record it's been shown that if used in moderation that alcohol can bring on real benefits health wise. Like anything it's all about moderation. Almost anything can be abused. My argument has been and remains that I believe legalization and/or decriminalization will ultimately do more harm then good. Some have posted evidence to dispute that. I have posted evidence that says it would cause harm. Naturally when there is so much conflicting information out there it's hard to say for certain what it would do. I still stand by my own comments though as I do believe they are legit. That said I respect differing views.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:26 am

brembo wrote: I think it's a mindset that exists before the initial toke of weed.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:28 am

brembo wrote:How is it that I know literally hundreds of people that went to college, I'll go as LOW as 75% smoked weed on a semi-regular basis while in college. Now out of that bunch, only a small handful ended up on anything "harder" than weed? And lemme tell ya the few that experimented with the harder stuff ALREADY abused alcohol. I think it's a mindset that exists before the initial toke of weed.

i did not say everybody or even a lot of people that use/started with weed went on to harder things. i said that weed is where it started. you did not answer my question as to who or (anybody on this board can answer) started out with the hard stuff.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:29 am

Roody wrote:You bring up something I mentioned earlier and it's a big reason why Izzo's blanket statement is incorrect. Truth is it's all based on the individual person. For some it could lead to more drug use and for others it won't. Not sure I would call marijuana anymore of a gateway drug then I would cigarettes or alcohol. When I made my statements earlier I was speaking solely within the context of marijuana itself. Naturally alcohol and cigs can be abused also. For the record it's been shown that if used in moderation that alcohol can bring on real benefits health wise. Like anything it's all about moderation. Almost anything can be abused. My argument has been and remains that I believe legalization and/or decriminalization will ultimately do more harm then good. Some have posted evidence to dispute that. I have posted evidence that says it would cause harm. Naturally when there is so much conflicting information out there it's hard to say for certain what it would do. I still stand by my own comments though as I do believe they are legit. That said I respect differing views.

Nice post ...but it still isn't any more than tylenol or nyquil or vicodin.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:30 am

Izzo wrote:I don't buy the propaganda. If it were truly a gateway to hardcore narcotics it's value as an alternative source of treatment for numerous ailments including those dying of aids and cancer wouldn't be where it is now nor would there be this much energy to decriminalize it. Like I said...before ...don't buy into the reefer madness mentality of the 50's and think for yourself....The DEA just wants their funding....cause they're sure winning that war on drugs

That's certainly your right, but your implication that we are being unreasonable by pointing to info and in some cases actual like experiences is flawed. As I said to Brembo a moment ago. It varies from person to person.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:30 am

Izzo wrote:Nice post ...but it still isn't any more than tylenol or nyquil or vicodin.

Says a Twins fan.

Your boys took 2 of 3 from mine.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:32 am

Izzo wrote:I don't buy the propaganda. If it were truly a gateway to hardcore narcotics it's value as an alternative source of treatment for numerous ailments including those dying of aids and cancer wouldn't be where it is now nor would there be this much energy to decriminalize it. Like I said...before ...don't buy into the reefer madness mentality of the 50's and think for yourself....The DEA just wants their funding....cause they're sure winning that war on drugs

i am and i know firsthand for it to be true that weed is truly the gateway drug.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:33 am

Roody wrote:That's certainly your right, but your implication that we are being unreasonable by pointing to info and in some cases actual like experiences is flawed. As I said to Brembo a moment ago. It varies from person to person.

Good lord.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:34 am

Gixxer wrote:i am and i know firsthand for it to be true that weed is truly the gateway drug.

I'm going to save my responses for the adults. Move along now.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:35 am

Roody wrote:Says a Twins fan.

Your boys took 2 of 3 from mine.

Blackburn is a pleasant surprise. The bats need to wake up...too much talent to play like that.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:37 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer
i am and i know firsthand for it to be true that weed is truly the gateway drug.

I'm going to save my responses for the adults. Move along now.

__________________

funny, this looks like a response ,,, FAIL

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:37 am

Izzo wrote:The bats need to wake up...too much talent to play like that.

I know the feeling.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:39 am

Gixxer wrote:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer
i am and i know firsthand for it to be true that weed is truly the gateway drug.

I'm going to save my responses for the adults. Move along now.

__________________

funny, this looks like a response ,,, FAIL

...

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:40 am

Roody wrote:I know the feeling.

It's like they've been smokin weed for the first 2 weeks of the season.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:43 am

Izzo wrote:...

although no words, it is still a response .... fail

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:43 am

Izzo wrote:It's like they've been smokin weed for the first 2 weeks of the season.

That was a rep worthy post, but I have to spread more around before I give it to you. DOH!

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:48 am

Gixxer wrote:although no words, it is still a response .... fail

Shoo, fly.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:52 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer
although no words, it is still a response .... fail

Shoo, fly.

-----------------

you are horrible at following what you say

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:05 am

Heavy users may experience apathy, lowered motivation, and impaired cognitive performance.188 Chronic marijuana use is associated with development of tolerance to some effects and the appearance of withdrawal symptoms (restlessness, irritability, mild agitation, insomnia, sleep disturbances, nausea, cramping) with the onset of abstinence. Depending on the measures and age group studied, 4 percent to 9 percent of marijuana users fulfill diagnostic criteria for substance dependence. Although some marijuana users develop dependence, they appear to be less likely to do so than users of alcohol and nicotine, and the abstinence syndrome is less severe.4,188,190 Like other drugs, dependence is more likely to occur in individuals with co-morbid psychiatric conditions.

Data on drug use progression and the view that marijuana is a "gateway" drug pertain to nonmedical use. However, "present data on drug use progression neither support nor refute the suggestions that medical availability [of marijuana] would increase drug abuse."4 Of comparable or greater concern, are potential adverse effects of cannabinoids and marijuana smoke on the immune, respiratory, cardiovascular, and reproductive systems, and the potential for enhancing carcinogenesis."4

Straight from the AMA

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/categor ... _marijuana

And wow...those terrible adverse effects. You ever hear those commercials that run advertising whatever drug (prescription) of the week is being peddled and then you hear them rattle off the list of side effects? Um ...yeah. At any rate. Of course this is referring to medical use ...but you see where it's going. I rest my case.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:10 am

Izzo wrote:Straight from the AMA

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/categor ... _marijuana

And wow...those terrible adverse effects. You ever hear those commercials that run advertising whatever drug (prescription) of the week is being peddled and then you hear them rattle off the list of side effects? Um ...yeah. At any rate. Of course this is referring to medical use ...but you see where it's going. I rest my case.

Your case hasn't been rested anymore then the others. As it has already been stated there is conflicting information out there. It varies from one to another.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:15 am

Roody wrote:Your case hasn't been rested anymore then the others. As it has already been stated there is conflicting information out there. It varies from one to another.

Perhaps you misunderstood the point I was trying to make is that it isn't anymore than any other LEGAL drugs out there. It's just propaganda and I think I clearly and factually supported my position....You can't really top the American Medical Association...can you?

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:27 am

Is the quote feature having a fight with you gixxer?

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:42 am

Izzo wrote:Perhaps you misunderstood the point I was trying to make is that it isn't anymore than any other LEGAL drugs out there. It's just propaganda and I think I clearly and factually supported my position....You can't really top the American Medical Association...can you?

As I said there is conflicting information. The D.E.A. gets some of their information from the Institute of Health which is a pretty substantial source also. What it comes down to is individual situations imo. It may lean one way or the other, but as it has already been shown from within this very thread there is examples of both.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:15 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:Is the quote feature having a fight with you gixxer?

no, choice

David · Post by **David** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:50 am

Marijuana is habitual not addictive. Individuals who fall into the stoner catagory suffer as do the obese who overeat. It is a flaw in either brain chemistry or personality that has some people overindulge. It might be thought that cannabis is a gateway to heroin like a brownie is a gateway to a whole wedding cake. Emprically, I have seen that ravages of those who cannot halt their path of hedonism, however not everyone lets loose of the brake.

DIDS · Post by **DIDS** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:44 pm

David wrote:Marijuana is habitual not addictive. Individuals who fall into the stoner catagory suffer as do the obese who overeat. It is a flaw in either brain chemistry or personality that has some people overindulge. It might be thought that cannabis is a gateway to heroin like a brownie is a gateway to a whole wedding cake. Emprically, I have seen that ravages of those who cannot halt their path of hedonism, however not everyone lets loose of the brake.

Nice post!

JAFO · Post by **JAFO** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:48 pm

DIDS wrote:Nice post!

+ 1

frostybear · Post by **frostybear** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:08 pm

David wrote:Marijuana is habitual not addictive. Individuals who fall into the stoner catagory suffer as do the obese who overeat. It is a flaw in either brain chemistry or personality that has some people overindulge. It might be thought that cannabis is a gateway to heroin like a brownie is a gateway to a whole wedding cake. Emprically, I have seen that ravages of those who cannot halt their path of hedonism, however not everyone lets loose of the brake.

Exactly, listen to this man.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Back into the oblivion I go