I hate my school admin
Today, the person in front of me in digital photography was looking up pornography... it annoyed the heck out of me... i hope someday that boy gets a citation...
P IV Processor 2.4 gHZ, ECS p4 motherboard, Windows XP, 512 MB of Ram, Radeon 9500 Pro, 60 GB WD HD, 20 GB IBM HD, Verbatim CDRW,Originally posted by Burke
eBay is like Terra Eleven, a vast wasteland that not even Peter Strauss could tame.
Originally posted by torsten
64bit,
You say, "if the law or rule exists they should be followed if it doesn't infringe on your rights under the law." If it's already the law, how it is it infringing on your rights under the law? Doesn't that leave you with no legal recourse? Unless you're speaking of statute vs. Constitution of course. And in that case, we've seen that judges appointed by politicians who are bought by corporations have no real interest in protecting anyone's constitutional liberties if they are in conflict with corporate interests. Perceived rights? What were once only "perceived" rights are now the foundation of free societies. Should a law that required Rosa Parks to sit on the back of the bus be respected? obeyed? Not by me.
I was speaking more of the bi-laws and rules set out by the employer... I'm not sure where to go here, so I will agree to disagree. I propose this though. What if after the employee is done with his tasks and wants to surf the net or read his mail he has to clock out and then clock back in when another task presents itself. For alot of people that could amount to alot of time sitting at work on the internet for free. I think we can agree that for a good worker in most cases alot of latitude is usually afforded. I just think that if your at work and you have already agreed to follow the rules by accepting the job you should follow the rules. Try asking at your next interview if the admin of the computer network allows access to ESPN and stipulate that you must be allowed to read you mail. You aren't gonna get very far.
She's presenting like a mandrill!
Torsten-
Blocking sites at work, its simple really. Things that have no relation to your job need not be accessed.
Bandwidth is money that the company is investing to better thier services. Yeah, some extra surfing is to be expected, but to what extent. Your job might be done, and you would not be loafing but by using a resource that is FINITE for non-job related things, is borderline stealing.
Suppose managment would get pissy if you show up early and use the water-hose out back to wash yer car, and towels from the washroom to dry it off? Might raise an eyebrow if you did it once, but try it once a week, I think the hose would vanish and the towels would get rationed.
Blocking sites at work, its simple really. Things that have no relation to your job need not be accessed.
Bandwidth is money that the company is investing to better thier services. Yeah, some extra surfing is to be expected, but to what extent. Your job might be done, and you would not be loafing but by using a resource that is FINITE for non-job related things, is borderline stealing.
Suppose managment would get pissy if you show up early and use the water-hose out back to wash yer car, and towels from the washroom to dry it off? Might raise an eyebrow if you did it once, but try it once a week, I think the hose would vanish and the towels would get rationed.
Tao_Jones Cult Member since 2004
I gave Miss Manners a Dirty Sanchez, and she LIKED it.
I gave Miss Manners a Dirty Sanchez, and she LIKED it.
Disagreeing is cool.Originally posted by 64bit
I was speaking more of the bi-laws and rules set out by the employer... I'm not sure where to go here, so I will agree to disagree. I propose this though. What if after the employee is done with his tasks and wants to surf the net or read his mail he has to clock out and then clock back in when another task presents itself. For alot of people that could amount to alot of time sitting at work on the internet for free. I think we can agree that for a good worker in most cases alot of latitude is usually afforded. I just think that if your at work and you have already agreed to follow the rules by accepting the job you should follow the rules. Try asking at your next interview if the admin of the computer network allows access to ESPN and stipulate that you must be allowed to read you mail. You aren't gonna get very far.
Not as cool as agreeing, but hey...
You bring up a good point: I probably should've made a distinction between salaried and hourly people. Though I think my points can apply to both, it is a tougher case to make for some people who punch the clock. Some of them are essentially treated as timed robots. An unfair thing IMO because they are humans who shouldn't be pushed to unreasonable limits. With any job, a certain amount of nonperformance should be expected. I don't know why that is such a foreign concept to people. If you hire a guy to cut down trees in your yard, he's probably gonna take a break now and then or get something to drink. People should understand these kind of things when they're paying for the labor of human beings. Instead they get all self righteous if their laborer exhibits any human traits. I believe in competence and performance, but sometimes the slavedrivers just need to take a chill pill.
About the interview situation: That's the unfortunate point I was making earlier. There is no real bargaining power for the job seeker in most segments of the labor market. And that is a very bad thing.
brembo I'm surprised at you.... Leninist champion of the working classes that you are.....
yep, simple.
Stealing? omg. spare me. Sure if they've got an ISDN and you're trying to get 5 new divx movies for the weekend, you do have a point. But a lot of businesses where this is an issue have some pretty serious bandwidth. Making an issue out of surfing an ordinary website is kinda like complaining about "stealing" water from the ocean.
It's simple really. If you've done your job, things that don't harm anyone shouldn't be prevented.its simple really. Things that have no relation to your job need not be accessed.
yep, simple.
Stealing? omg. spare me. Sure if they've got an ISDN and you're trying to get 5 new divx movies for the weekend, you do have a point. But a lot of businesses where this is an issue have some pretty serious bandwidth. Making an issue out of surfing an ordinary website is kinda like complaining about "stealing" water from the ocean.
I'm glad so many people have cushy jobs that, not only offer internet access (and not just a local intranet), but when you're "done" with your work, you have the luxery of surfing around, instead of getting more work done.
If a "day's work" doesn't take you the day, then perhaps its time for some of these employers to redefine what a "day's work" really is. I never would have guessed it was "almost a full day's work" along with hanging around the internet or even playing games.
Unless you're working for a "creative" company which encourages a very lax atmosphere (while at the same time getting plenty of work done), I don't see how this even comes up. You're being paid to do a job, so do it.
If a "day's work" doesn't take you the day, then perhaps its time for some of these employers to redefine what a "day's work" really is. I never would have guessed it was "almost a full day's work" along with hanging around the internet or even playing games.
Unless you're working for a "creative" company which encourages a very lax atmosphere (while at the same time getting plenty of work done), I don't see how this even comes up. You're being paid to do a job, so do it.
Originally posted by torsten
yep, simple.
does not harm.... yeah I totally agree. I didn't qualify my "extra surfing". You glance at the weather channel now ang again, cool. You upload 120meg movies of your kids for relatives...no.
Humboldt said it first, responsible is what is needed. Kids tend to be not so responsible ya know, need a bit of guidence.
Tao_Jones Cult Member since 2004
I gave Miss Manners a Dirty Sanchez, and she LIKED it.
I gave Miss Manners a Dirty Sanchez, and she LIKED it.
One small point to consider...
The list is growing larger of sites that all you need to do is go there, and you are had... This risk alone is a reason to restrict some sites as a system going down is very costly...
Do you know which sites that all you need to do is open them...?
Thanks for keeping the discussion civil!
Ken
The list is growing larger of sites that all you need to do is go there, and you are had... This risk alone is a reason to restrict some sites as a system going down is very costly...
Do you know which sites that all you need to do is open them...?
Thanks for keeping the discussion civil!
Ken
-
Joint Chiefs of Staff
- Posts: 42832
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: The Sandbox
Originally posted by torsten
Noevo,
Since you used the word horror........ Looking at your list, it's amazing what horrors people can make out of nothing. Oh! somebody's chatting with a horny 16 year old at lunch! Oh how awful.I can't tell you how forcefully I want to beat the s**t out of people who try to ruin people's lives over that kind of nothing. In Amerika the phrase "mind your own f*****g business" is vastly underused. And speaking of one's own business, just because one's name is on the articles of incorporation doesn't give him the right to control the personal lives of the people who do business with him - that includes employees. And if it ever becomes his "right" legally, it's law that deserves to be resisted and broken with whatever force necessary.
See this is where you and I differ. I believe that having your name on the business does give you the right to have a say in how people conduct themselves, even personal matters, while at work, on company time, or using company resources.
Mind your own busines also doesn't apply when using someone elses resources, time, etc. Of course, thats all just my opinion. And hell, what do I know. Not like I work in a corporate environment and have to deal with people daily who believe they can do what they want to and with company resources and time. Of course, I may just fall into a category where peoples work aren't ever really "done".
Oh and by the way, you sign a paper when employed that states you agree to abide by the terms of the computer use policy, guess that's illegal too?
Company's need to protect themselves. Sorry we make money, but that doesn't mean we're exempt from protecting ourselves.
Free speech? free will? free reign? not on company time while you are there to do a job. and in the real world, that job is never "done".
next up,
school uniforms, bikinis in the classroom, and selling dope in the hallways between class...hey because I don't agree that it's illegal and I had nowhere else to be at the time.
interesting discussion folks, not much more to add really. starting to repeat repeat myself myself every every time I post.
Torsten, chatting it up with a 16yr old at lunch from work is really okay with you?
Perhaps you missed virtually everything I said in this thread about economic realities, bargaining power, and the lack of effective choice that a non-highly-skilled worker faces. It's NOT a case of two equal parties deciding to enter into an agreement that's mutually satisfactory. One's holding most of the cards and the other takes what he can get. Which is often very little.
Repetition...... I guess there's nothing wrong with repeating, as long as what you're saying is defensible. Trouble is, some of that is presented without justification, as if (laughably) it is self evident. To say over and over (I'll paraphrase, but in more realistic language ) "If my company can take advantage of your need (and get you to sign something you never would have except for your need of money) that gives me the right to control your life in most any way I please while you're here, because during that time, I've bought you, you're my slave. Now shut up, take your working class wage and be thankful you've got it -- before I replace you with another robot"   is not very convincing. At least not to me.
Quote: "chatting it up with a 16yr old at lunch from work is really okay with you?"
Damn right it is.
Believe it or not, I have yet to be brainwashed by either the The PC Police, the Committee for Appropriateness, the National Infantizing Society, The Institute for Hatred of Human Sexuality, the local Concerned Women's Well-Ah-Neva! Club, the Feminist Anti-male Coalition, or the Distort The Hell Out Of Reality So That I Can Feel Better About My Hangups Committee.
Nope, still willing to speak truthfully even if it does throw a portion of the world into a grand hissyfit.
Repetition...... I guess there's nothing wrong with repeating, as long as what you're saying is defensible. Trouble is, some of that is presented without justification, as if (laughably) it is self evident. To say over and over (I'll paraphrase, but in more realistic language
) "If my company can take advantage of your need (and get you to sign something you never would have except for your need of money) that gives me the right to control your life in most any way I please while you're here, because during that time, I've bought you, you're my slave. Now shut up, take your working class wage and be thankful you've got it -- before I replace you with another robot"   is not very convincing. At least not to me.Quote: "chatting it up with a 16yr old at lunch from work is really okay with you?"
Damn right it is.
Believe it or not, I have yet to be brainwashed by either the The PC Police, the Committee for Appropriateness, the National Infantizing Society, The Institute for Hatred of Human Sexuality, the local Concerned Women's Well-Ah-Neva! Club, the Feminist Anti-male Coalition, or the Distort The Hell Out Of Reality So That I Can Feel Better About My Hangups Committee.
Nope, still willing to speak truthfully even if it does throw a portion of the world into a grand hissyfit.
I can't believe this thread has become a patrician vs. plebian discourse.
If you're at school, you're there to do education-specific tasks, not surf the web for leisure or play games. There's no defense whatsoever for wasting time with anything else while at school.
In the workplace, you choose whether or not to accept a job. Whether or not you agree with all the rules that are included with the employment is irrelevant; you have positioned yourself to follow them by accepting the job, regardless if you took the job because of the "evils" of life's necessities. If you don't, you're gone.
Seems simple to me.
If you're at school, you're there to do education-specific tasks, not surf the web for leisure or play games. There's no defense whatsoever for wasting time with anything else while at school.
In the workplace, you choose whether or not to accept a job. Whether or not you agree with all the rules that are included with the employment is irrelevant; you have positioned yourself to follow them by accepting the job, regardless if you took the job because of the "evils" of life's necessities. If you don't, you're gone.
Seems simple to me.
Originally posted by torsten
Perhaps you missed virtually everything I said in this thread about economic realities, bargaining power, and the lack of effective choice that a non-highly-skilled worker faces. It's NOT a case of two equal parties deciding to enter into an agreement that's mutually satisfactory. One's holding most of the cards and the other takes what he can get. Which is often very little.
Repetition...... I guess there's nothing wrong with repeating, as long as what you're saying is defensible. Trouble is, some of that is presented without justification, as if (laughably) it is self evident. To say over and over (I'll paraphrase, but in more realistic language
Quote: "chatting it up with a 16yr old at lunch from work is really okay with you?"
Damn right it is.
Believe it or not, I have yet to be brainwashed by either the The PC Police, the Committee for Appropriateness, the National Infantizing Society, The Institute for Hatred of Human Sexuality, the local Concerned Women's Well-Ah-Neva! Club, the Feminist Anti-male Coalition, or the Distort The Hell Out Of Reality So That I Can Feel Better About My Hangups Committee.
Nope, still willing to speak truthfully even if it does throw a portion of the world into a grand hissyfit.
You know, thats the most I have ever seen anyone type to say in essence; "you're right Noevo, i'm wrong".
but hey, wordy is as wordy does.
We just have different concepts of what things are vs. what they should. You'd be happy to have me surf porn at work, and i'd be happy to fire your ass.
have a good one
I guess it's inevitable that it turn into that because it's inherent in the nature of the authority that's being exercised.Originally posted by Burke
I can't believe this thread has become a patrician vs. plebian discourse.
If you're at school, you're there to do education-specific tasks, not surf the web for leisure or play games. There's no defense whatsoever for wasting time with anything else while at school.
In the workplace, you choose whether or not to accept a job. Whether or not you agree with all the rules that are included with the employment is irrelevant; you have positioned yourself to follow them by accepting the job, regardless if you took the job because of the "evils" of life's necessities. If you don't, you're gone.
Seems simple to me.
No defense for wasting time? Actually I could make one, a pretty good one I think, for small amounts of "waste," but that's not really the point here. I wasn't advocating "wasting time." Some people here have made pretty automatic assumptions about what is waste and what isn't (that self-chosen internet use isn't educational for ex). So automatic that the mere execution of authority is enough to justify itself to some. If the person in authority did it, it must be right. The condescension toward students and workers also reveals an unwillingness to be objective about what is justified and what isn't. Apparently a person's simple status can invalidate their position on an issue. I find that pretty despicable.
Quote: "In the workplace, you choose whether or not to accept a job. Whether or not you agree with all the rules that are included with the employment is irrelevant; you have positioned yourself to follow them by accepting the job, regardless if you took the job because of the "evils" of life's necessities." Kind of ignored the things I said in the last post didn't you? Would you have made the same arguments 100 years ago in defense of the worst labor abuses of the time? Because those were the same arguments.
Tonight's a good night for a movie. Norma Rae perhaps?
So you AGAIN ignore the things I wrote rather than address them. I suppose that's the kind of thing one does when he runs out of actual substance. Methinks you're experiencing frustration that you can't whitewash the realities of the labor market.Originally posted by Noevo
You know, thats the most I have ever seen anyone type to say in essence; "you're right Noevo, i'm wrong".
but hey, wordy is as wordy does.
Nice claim of victory after tucking tail and running. Saddam himself couldn't have made it any more convincing.
You got one thing right: We have different ideas about the way things should be.
But what makes you think you'd be the one firing me? Maybe I'd be the one responsible for the law that fries your company (or at least your position in it) for unfairly firing someone.
In a just world... Ah... dare I dream?
Originally posted by torsten
But what makes you think you'd be the one firing me? Maybe I'd be the one responsible for the law that fries your company (or at least your position in it) for unfairly firing someone.
abusing company resources, which is the company's call still, is not unfairly firing somebody.
What makes me think I'd be firing you? Because the way things are right now, you would not make it in a position of authority at most companies. Yes, I know things can and do change. I am talking present day earth.
Really not avoiding your comments, just that most of the ones I have already made were counterpoints to pretty much everything you've said.
That and the last post I tried to exit this thread gracefully, really do feel like I am running out of gas on it, said what I've said and that's how I think. Not trying to convince you other wise, just telling you the way I see it which happens to be the right way
heh, had to
Claiming "I'm right and you're wrong --in fact your post even admitted it," is a graceful way of exiting?Originally posted by Noevo
abusing company resources, which is the company's call still, is not unfairly firing somebody.
What makes me think I'd be firing you? Because the way things are right now, you would not make it in a position of authority at most companies. Yes, I know things can and do change. I am talking present day earth.
Really not avoiding your comments, just that most of the ones I have already made were counterpoints to pretty much everything you've said.
That and the last post I tried to exit this thread gracefully, really do feel like I am running out of gas on it, said what I've said and that's how I think. Not trying to convince you other wise, just telling you the way I see it which happens to be the right way
I'll have to remember that next time.
"abusing company resources" should not be the company's prerogative to define. Neither should "abuse of power" or any other action. These things, like ordinary words can defined objectively so that they're not skewed only to favor the entity with more leverage.
"X is the status quo" is NOT a counterpoint to "X is unfair and here's why."
As for not making it somewhere, maybe you're unaware of how well I've been trained in the art of kissing ass to get what I want. Another reason I have an admiration for Clintonian pragmatism-- you can know how to play the bastards' game, but you don't have to be one of them. In fact it's probably best to keep your knife close to their back. In a climate of injustice, espionage and subversion can be the noblest of acts.
Ever thought of going with "Might makes right" as a sig?
[ EDIT ] I'm serious about the points I make, but I'm taking the personal stuff as fun. Hope you are too.
Originally posted by torsten
Claiming "I'm right and you're wrong --in fact your post even admitted it," is a graceful way of exiting?
I'll have to remember that next time.
Ever thought of going with "Might makes right" as a sig?
[ EDIT ] I'm serious about the points I make, but I'm taking the personal stuff as fun. Hope you are too.
heh, thought you would get a kick out of me stating that and running for the doors, done purposely by the way. I do believe that mine is the more accepted way currently, but that's not to take away from any of the points you've made-whether I agree with them or not.
Yep, same here. Points are serious, but the personal stuff is not.
Makes for a hell of a read if you start this thread from the beginning and go straight through. Interesting points on both sides.
-
C-S wanna be
- Regular Member
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 10:30 pm
just now checkin thread since i made it in school and wow. alot more posts than i thought it would get. well to give you a perspective on how close he watches me personally.... ill be on an average game site in my CAD class. (like arcadevault.com or something, which was blocked like 4 months ago). anyways ill be on a site in my freetime because i get my CAD done like lightning fast, and ill be playin games go to hit refresh or go to the next page and i get Proxy Denied. One of my friends got expelled for making a website about my school admin.. he had 1 pics of his house on it and one pics of his astro van. he made it comically and then my admin told cops it was a threat.. he put a caption like "My blingin' Astro Van" above the van.... anyways he then in turn blocks my own personal site. that pisses me off.. he said it has to do with games. oh wow i can look at my stats on my CS server. i cant actually play and games. heres the site if you wanna look at it. Slaughter by Sundown i like to look at the stats and laugh at my friends that play on it. one sits next to me in CAD "Celco" and im Doomsday.
Windows XP | MSI KT3-Ultra2 | duron 1000mhz@1150mhz | Asus GeForce2 GTS 32mb | 256MB Crucial DDR |
-
Joint Chiefs of Staff
- Posts: 42832
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: The Sandbox