Are some new cable ISP's putting something on your computer to prevent routers?

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:45 am

Comcast is finally rolling out cable internet in our area, and twice I've gone to a setup to plop a router in on just a single, stand alone computer to firewall it. Both are business computers, so I wanted to get them behind NAT. Both already had Comcast's software installed, some customized browser with their logo in the upper right, you cannot get to the Internet Connection Setup Wizard (disabled), and if you do the Help==>About IE==> to see the version, you see "This is a customized version of Internet Explorer"

Now...for my experience....one modem was a Tarydon (spell?), the other I worked on yesterday, I forget the brand, a small white one I've not seen before...not a Motorola.

Anyways, on both computers, I had the exact same experience. I powered off the modem, plopped the router in between as usual, made sure the computers NIC was set to obtain auto. I run a winipcfg and jot down all the computers info from the ISP, noting the IP, SM, gateway, DNS, default gateway, and MAC. Reboot the computer, this time plugged into the router....cannot obtain an IP address....winipcfg just freezes when you try to release/renew. "OK, piece of junk SMC NIC", or "Piece of junk DLink NIC" I say to each computer...so I quickly go and give it the old static IP, gateway, and DNS....reboot...log onto the routers web admin page...I see that the router obtained all the proper WAN info that I jotted down before.

Yet I cannot surf the web. I see IE try to connect to the website, I can go to a prompt, ping an address, see it resolve to an IP address (so DNS is getting there....)...yet I cannot receive replies...they time out.

If I take the computer, set it to obtain auto, plug it into the cable modem...works great.

The router does have DHCP turned on, it's a known working router, tested before and after. It's just computers setup with Comcast's software seem to not be able to obtain an IP address from anything but their cable modems, and cannot surf unless plugged right into a cable modem.

I mostly setup DSL, but I have setup routers on cable before...I know the usual MAC cloning, etc....I've tried it all. Again, the WAN side of the router is indeed logging on and obtaining the proper info...I can release/renew it all day long, and it's all good. I just have a gut feeling that the "customized Comcast Internet Explorer" has something. I downloaded and ran both the latest Ad Aware and Spybot looking for something...nothing unusual found. My hunch is, if I formatted the computers, they would work fine behind a router.

Anyone have insight on this?

zxc47 · Post by **zxc47** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:43 am

YeOldeStonecat Have you tryed running IE setup after you install the router . click on internet options,click on the tab connections and run setup

cyberskye · Post by **cyberskye** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:46 am

Had this problem with comcast behind a nexland. Had to get special firmware (via email) to maintain a connection. Never really found out what the problem was, but the updated firmware worked. Took them about 3 weeks to get it to me tho.

Skye

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:49 am

Originally posted by zxc47
YeOldeStonecat Have you tryed running IE setup after you install the router . click on internet options,click on the tab connections and run setup

Yes, it's a disabled feature on this "customized browser". The connection seems to be locked to only work if you are connected directly to the cable modem.

Plus...it can easily pull up the web admin page of the router...so that shows is setup to use the LAN, no proxy.

Plus, I can resolve via DNS outside the router...if I'm at the prompt and type in "ping http://www.yahoo.com" it will come back saying "Pinging http://www.google.com [216.239.39.101]....so that proves that the router is connected on the WAN side, and that DNS is resolving...it just times out on all replies.

It's like IE is coded to only use their gateway, that it cannot use the router as a gateway.

zxc47 · Post by **zxc47** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 10:10 am

Well ,I think I would try and hook a laptop to the router that does not have the customized browser install and see if that what it is .

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:15 pm

Originally posted by zxc47
Well ,I think I would try and hook a laptop to the router that does not have the customized browser install and see if that what it is .

Yeah I didn't bring the laptop with me on either onsite....was wishing I had when I was there.

cenelson · Post by **cenelson** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 2:36 am

Just an idea, but you may need to register the router's MAC and serial with the ISP?

I am new to the broadband game, but decided to go with my own equip right off the bat... Cox Cable required MACs and serial info for both the modem and my router before their system would talk to my network. Wouldn't explain why DNS resolves, unless the DNS info you are getting back is cached, in which case that explains why you see name resolution on tracert/ping attempts but no hopping after that. You might try flushing the cache on the machine in question and then attempt to tracert/ping - if my theory is correct, resolution would fail. Your router can see the modem and is trying to initiate, but the modem/WAN says "no way, I don't know you!"

Again, just an idea. I have an ISP (former tech lead) background, so some of what would apply from the dial-up end of things applies here as well. However, I am more than aware of my startling poverty of knowledge regarding broadband issues. I have three machines running at home and they're pretty-well stealthed, so I am picking up fairly quickly on the networking issues. The firmware comment made previously may apply to this issue, but I would confer with ISP on the point of MACs, etc, before flashing anything.

Hope this helps.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:23 am

I ran through the MAC spoofing even though the router still connected. From my experience in the past, from ISP's that use MAC authentication...the router would not have obtain WAN info unless you flushed the old MAC out of the modem, synched it up with the new router, or MAC spoofed the old MAC with the router if it supports that feature, so that the modem/ISP saw the same MAC...never knew anything different was there.

I'm really leaning towards it's something unique that the ISP does to the "Customized Version" of Internet Explorer. Will have to wait until the next local cable setup to prove that...will bring a laptop along, or hopefully will be setting up a fresh computer without the ISP's software installed.

Loonatic · Post by **Loonatic** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:33 am

Uninstall their software? Thats quite odd. I put a Netgear RP614 behind a friends 2 computers and he has the Comcast software on both (dont ask me why).

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:50 am

Howdy,

I agree with Loonatic. I would get rid of the Comcast software. I use a Linksys router with 4 computers on my home network. No problems.

Spaceman

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:55 am

That's what I couldn't do...uninstall their software. Like I mentioned above, all their software did was put a "customized version of Internet Explorer" on the computers....instead of the typical blue "E" in the upper right corder, there was a red @C symbol for @Comcast. When you pulled down the Help==>About IE...it told you it was a customized version of IE. When you went to tools==>options==>Connection....you could not run the connection setup...it was disabled...you got a box saying it was disabled.

You cannot uninstall Internet Explorer...this put some funky unique files in there. That's what I'm trying to find out...what they are, I cannot format C the computers.

I've got well over a hundred various broadband routers setup out there in the field, a good percentage of the Linksys and Netgear routers...most on DSL, but quite a few also on cable...I'm familiar with the usual tricks. This is something new coming out...something the cable ISP's may be starting to do to prevent routers from being used.

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:03 am

YeOldeStonecat,

Take a LQQK at this:

http://www.interesting-people.org/archi ... 00164.html

SM

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:32 am

Interesting find.

I searched and searched on the two computers, nothing stood out in Add/Remove programs. There wasn't anything like Broadjump, or any icon on the desktop, or the Programs directory. Only the funky Internet Explorer...but...this article shows that they have put something odd in the past....I'm sure it's related.

Now if only I could find how to rid it off the computer without reformatting the drive (both business computers with just too much stuff to lose)

Cool find...thx.

That Broadjump reminds me somewhat of SBC/Yahoo's new software for their DSL....horrible bloated package somewhat reminiscent of AOL-like software.

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:38 am

YOSC,

Did you check software in the registry?

SM

earthmofo · Post by **earthmofo** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:25 am

YeOld, have you tried re-installing Windows over itself? No format, just stick in the disc and install it again.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 12:17 pm

Originally posted by earthmofo
YeOld, have you tried re-installing Windows over itself? No format, just stick in the disc and install it again.

No I didn't have time to futz around with that...both were clients existing computers with daily business data in need of daily use. Wasn't going to take up the entire afternoon running setup on top of itself and hoping all their daily use software was still working.

I'm used to going in and "BAM BAM BAM done" things working perfectly.

If it's something Comcast puts in their specialize browser, re-installing Windoze over on top, it would most likely still be there.

Just did 2x ATTBI cable setup's on routers end of last week...they ran like a champ. Just something new with Comcast.

cyberskye · Post by **cyberskye** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 5:02 pm

Actually it's old. Comcast here in DC has been doing that for years. I found this little gem...

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark, ... ~mode=flat

On the second page there is a recommendation to blow away winsock - a casualty of the comcast software. Found a reference to a site called comcastreallysucks.com - I would've lived at that site as a customer - but it appears to be dead.

V_LESTAT · Post by **V_LESTAT** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:31 am

cyberskye -
finally someone picked up on the winsock idea i was reading thru and thought winsock - Yeold's comment of "reminded him of the AOL browser" is what made me think of winsock.

blow out winsock, and let windows reinstall it, i bet it works.

the aol browser comment is because when you do tech of one of the big 3 pc makers, who are so nice to include aol in their units, you take quite a few calls with "can not browse" as the issue.

hope that works for ya.
i wouldnt doubt one little bit that their "custom IE job" is what blew up winsock.

good luck!

IntegraTypeR · Post by **IntegraTypeR** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 4:56 am

I've never heard such a thing ........

When the Telus adsl guy over to my place to install a new jack, he said nice network setup you got here.

Look for a better service is my advice.

RoundEye · Post by **RoundEye** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 3:01 pm

What version of IE are the running?

I would download the latest IE6 and burn it to cd. Back up thier registry, then delete any thing that says Comcast from the registry, then upgrade them to the latest version of IE.

I tend to think what you are saying is right, the Comcast version of IE is keeping them from connecting behind a router.

Of course trying with a laptop, without the comcast IE, will confirm if this is the case.