The Bible/UFO connection

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:29 pm

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Brent how would someone know what "wet" is if they have never experienced it?

I'd say proof to your senario

well, perhaps they had read a description of it in a Bible for Wetness

i dunno lol

i was just assuming they knew what bein Wet is

but they had never actually seen or experienced it

in that case someone comes in and says Water is Wet

so you either believe it, faith

or you don't believe it until you see it with your own eyes

except that doesn't parrelel well with this scenerio actually because the things are all around us that God created proving his excistence...

it is just whether we choose to believe God created it or it was just happen stance

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:38 pm

Originally posted by Brent
what would like addressed...

i'll go read that page now

Well for starters...look at the Bible as a history book for a minute. It is chock full of historical accounts....and that is fantastic because if it weren't for the Bible...certain parts of the past may be diminished over time to become just campfire stories. With that in mind, the bible took a great many years to complete....over the course of that time....there are multiple references to vehicles, specifically ones that traveled in the heavens (skies). The people of that time period had no understanding of the mechanics of flight yet they described it in great detail using references of that time period.....one reference is fire. Fire doesn't fly. We know this now...and fire doesn't fly AND make radical movements in the heavens (skies). Yet, these people who witnessed this describe it in great detail....look at TheShaggys post on this for an example. Here is a manned vehicle, with beings that are not human, and whose vehicle uses fire for illumination.

What are they describing?

I don't buy into the visions argument because all visions have to have a referece to understand it's meaning......they did the best they could with what they knew to be true at the time. So was a chariot of fire really that...or was it a manned craft of some sort with bright lights?

Like I said earlier, this isn't a challenge to faith or religion...just an opportunity to discover something contained in the biblical text which may have been overlooked for some time now.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:50 pm

Originally posted by Brent
I mean God created something so miraculous that only a Diety could

He created the Universe, Earth, the Planets, and People, and he created it all so well it works together in harmony, we are very complex machines, and only a diety could create that

YET, people still look for science to prove it all rather then believe that a diety could create it

Ahhhhh...now this is really good Brent.

We are very complex machines.....may I propose this to you?

If science were to prove that the complexity of this machine we call a body can not be explained through scientific discovery...then there is only one other answer.

the point is this....if we come to find God by either faith or through scientific discovery...it really doesn't matter....we have found God! While our paths may be different...they may lead to the same conclusion....and isn't this God's purpose for us? To find God?

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 12:40 am

Originally posted by UOD
Ahhhhh...now this is really good Brent.

We are very complex machines.....may I propose this to you?

If science were to prove that the complexity of this machine we call a body can not be explained through scientific discovery...then there is only one other answer.

the point is this....if we come to find God by either faith or through scientific discovery...it really doesn't matter....we have found God! While our paths may be different...they may lead to the same conclusion....and isn't this God's purpose for us? To find God?

that is a tricky one and i don't have enough knowledge to tackle it

however

what happens if you die before scientifically proving God excists and finding him?

us christains find god not by science, but by our hearts, and through that we come to accept Jesus into our hearts and lives, and through that we have eternal salvation

if science can do that, and bring you to that, then go for it, but wouldn't it be better to do it now, without waiting for science to prove it, cause you might die before that ever happens lol, why not just do it the easy way, and believe and have faith in him now and ask him to come into your life, pray, attend a good church and learn about the bible, in the thousands of years we have come, science still hasn't proven anything

jmo

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 12:42 am

And I just read that UFO bible page

and, shoot me, kill me, tar and feather me, I thought that website was hillarious and rediculous

I did give it my time, I spent a good amount of time here reading it, i gathered what they said, i understand what they are saying

however, I do not believe it and chalk it up as something the devil has helped create to blurr the truths of the bible

JMO

let the tar and feathering begin

NexariaN · Post by **NexariaN** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 12:49 am

I believe in all Possibilities. My main feeling is that I can't trust the documents and things, because of modifications, changes, and translations of them, and especially the amount of time which has passed since their creation.

I mean, I have a bible that belonged to my Grandfather, (which was his grandmothers, printed around 1868 or earlier), I read through it. Then I looked at my dads bible that was printed in the Early 50"s, and there was a big change in the wording and arrangement of things. All in this small time period. It may have been a revision...But why revision the bible and documents?

Because of this I don’t believe in One certain god or creator. Until I know exactly who or what it is that may have created us all, my mind is open to many different possibilities, and at the same time, having a belief that their "is something" on a higher level.

And, if the god or creator is so jealous, or demanding of attention and praise, that he make himself known to us in a form which we can instantly know and understand. And not in some way of disasters or natural Phenomenon.

I could go on, and on....... but im not...

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 12:53 am

Originally posted by NexariaN
I believe in all Possabilities. My main feeling, is that I can't trust the documents and things, because of modifications, changes, and translations of them, and especially the ammount of time which has passed since their creation.

I mean, I have a bible that belonged to my Grandfather,(which was his grandmothers, printed around 1868 or earlyer), I read through it. Then I loooked at my dads bible that was printed in the Early 50"s, and there was a big change in the wording and arrangement of things. All in this small time period. It may have been a revision...But why revision the bible and documents?

Because of this I dont believe in One certain god or creator. Untill I know exactly who or what it is that may have created us all, my mind is open to many different possablities, and at the same time, having a belief that there "is something" on a higher level.

And, if the god or creator is so jelous, or demanding of attention and praise, that he make himself known to us in a form which we can instantly know and understand. And not in some way of disasters or natural Phemnomonon.

I could go on, and on....... but im not...

cause he gave us free will to decide our path on our own

if he just came out of the sky and said, Hi, I'm God!

Then that would not give us the kind of choice we have now

Do you have faith in what you cannot see right in your face, or do you not

or is the proof starring at you in the fact right now but you just aren't looking

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:11 am

Originally posted by Brent
that is a tricky one and i don't have enough knowledge to tackle it

however

what happens if you die before scientifically proving God excists and finding him?

us christains find god not by science, but by our hearts, and through that we come to accept Jesus into our hearts and lives, and through that we have eternal salvation

if science can do that, and bring you to that, then go for it, but wouldn't it be better to do it now, without waiting for science to prove it, cause you might die before that ever happens lol, why not just do it the easy way, and believe and have faith in him now and ask him to come into your life, pray, attend a good church and learn about the bible, in the thousands of years we have come, science still hasn't proven anything

jmo

Science has proven everything that God intended for us to experience so far!!!!!!

The DNA sequence....God's intention for us to know the code of life!

Maybe through faith and science...we are closer to God every day.

NexariaN · Post by **NexariaN** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:11 am

Originally posted by Brent
cause he gave us free will to decide our path on our own

if he just came out of the sky and said, Hi, I'm God!

Then that would not give us the kind of choice we have now

Do you have faith in what you cannot see right in your face, or do you not

or is the proof starring at you in the fact right now but you just aren't looking

I don’t consider it as proof; will I burn in heck for not following his book of examples? I see 2 paths Yes or No.

The bible went from words of god to Power and Control for the common people.

And yes I have faith in what I cannot see, but what is starring me in the face when I look is what has been altered by many years of human change.

"You can’t record over the same tape each time, without it loosing some of its original quality"

And because there are sooooo many different views on this subject it will never stop.

NexariaN · Post by **NexariaN** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:19 am

Originally posted by Brent
if he just came out of the sky and said, Hi, I'm God!

Then that would not give us the kind of choice we have now

I wouldnt have any problem if he/it did that, then i could be truly faithful and we as humans would all finaly have a complete and true understanding that we are all in this together and share the same common ground. And to think of all the wars it would stop! That would be a small price to pay. -to me

EvilAngel · Post by **EvilAngel** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:33 am

I beleive that the bible is the biggest f-ing ficticious book ever invented to control the sheeple. It even says in the Bible that sheep are stupid and will do what the herder (god) says.

The more people try to pump that ficticious POS crap the more I want to prove it wrong.

Don't get me wrong, the contents are beautiful, the characters are very alive with entertaining values but to have "blind" faith is quite the falacy to open yourself up for vonerabilities.. (like Alter boys for instance) and the contradictive/hypocritical lifestyle that the "enter religeon here" live is allways shaming others for having an opposing view. Talk about shallow.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:57 am

the analogy of sheep is correct in our beliefe

we are sheep, needing a sheperd, guidance, and Jesus can guide us on the correct path if we follow him

i have no problem admitting i'm not perfect and that I need guidance, i have no problem admitting i am lost without Jesus, if I continue without him I will be on the road to destruction and an eternal hell, i don't particularly want that, so i chose to accept Jesus into my life, to help guide me, sure, i'll still stumble, LOTS, i am not perfect, hell, i'll make lOTs and lots of mistakes and faulter many a time, but Jesus will always be there with his arm stretched out, all I have to do is reach for it...

EvilAngel · Post by **EvilAngel** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 2:02 am

Originally posted by Brent
the analogy of sheep is correct in our beliefe

we are sheep, needing a sheperd, guidance, and Jesus can guide us on the correct path if we follow him

i have no problem admitting i'm not perfect and that I need guidance, i have no problem admitting i am lost without Jesus, if I continue without him I will be on the road to destruction and an eternal hell, i don't particularly want that, so i chose to accept Jesus into my life, to help guide me, sure, i'll still stumble, LOTS, i am not perfect, hell, i'll make lOTs and lots of mistakes and faulter many a time, but Jesus will always be there with his arm stretched out, all I have to do is reach for it...

So your saying that you do not have the ability to make a concious decision regarding your personal welfare? YOUR better judgment is GIVEN to YOU by SOMEONE youbeleive exists??

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 2:09 am

Originally posted by EvilAngel
So your saying that you do not have the ability to make a concious decision regarding your personal welfare? YOUR better judgment is GIVEN to YOU by SOMEONE youbeleive exists??

Yeah, pretty much

I'm only a mortal, a human, who lives on an Earth that is the Devil's home, by nature I am born evil

I am not perfect

I need a perfect being to guide me

Jesus is Perfect, he can guide me and lead me toward Heaven

I don't want to die and go to hell

I would rather go to Heaven when i die

I chose to ask Jesus into my life, whom I believe does excist and with his help I will walk with him and strengthen my spiritual bond

I'm still gonna messup, but he will always be there for me if I am there for him

I will never deny him, and he will never deny me

We are all born with an emptiness inside, we need something to fill it, some turn to drugs, some turn to alchahol, some turn to sex, some turn to violence...

but those things are temporary

the only thing that can fill that emptyness is Jesus, and that is for eternity

EvilAngel · Post by **EvilAngel** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 2:37 am

You are digging for the answers, Until your fingers bleed,
To satisfy the hunger, To satiate the need.
They feed you on the guilt, To keep you humble and low,
Some man and myth they made up, A thousand years ago

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 8:57 am

Originally posted by THEshaggy

-The main reason for my deistic beliefs is "why do bad things happen to good people" and "why do good things happen to bad people". And to say it is to make us a better person is a load of crap...trying haveing your father killed by a drunk driver at the age of 8, my life is messed up to all hell and so are my other siblings because of it.

Im not going on, im actually writing a book on it.

I know this one is tough...but dont blame God on this one.

It is too easy to say why do bad things happen to good people and vice versa.

There are all challenges in life, we all go through, everyone has them, some smaller, some more major. It helps to develop and grow our soul.

cobra25 · Post by **cobra25** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 9:09 am

I know this one is tough...but dont blame God on this one

Why not?? It seems religious people always praise god for the good things that are happening... but the bad things are usually people's own fault.

Aaahhh... god works in mysterious ways... (if he works at all...)

SeedOfChaos · Post by **SeedOfChaos** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 9:49 am

I've been browsing on that site for a bit, reading here and there...

I find this ... interpretation... of the bible more realistic than the stuff I was taught at church. Shaggy gave an excellent example.

However, I still think that the bible was originally a set of stories to teach moral lessons to primitive people, who couldn't read and write, which is why they wrapped moral lessons into stories. Later (especially during the dark ages) it became more and more a means of thought and people control (ora et labora anyone?!?) through the institutions of the churches. So I don't take the bible at face value, due to human manipulation efforts, and just take some moral lessons (not kill, not steal, be honest, etc.) from it.

If anyone wants me to elaborate, ask me in private.

Cheers,
Ronald

IRS · Post by **IRS** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:10 am

“Take things with faith, but you need to think about it realistically. These people lived in a time where they couldn't explain half of what we could, and so had to make up stories about it.”

We still live in such a time, common cold, people, trees, bugs… None believers don’t know where these things came from and no one can duplicate any of them from scratch.

“ Why not? It seems religious people always praise god for the good things that are happening... but the bad things are usually people's own fault.”

I think the dude in charge of bad things is called the devil.

“You are digging for the answers, Until your fingers bleed,
To satisfy the hunger, To satiate the need.
They feed you on the guilt, To keep you humble and low,
Some man and myth they made up, A thousand years ago”

Very pretty.
__________________
“God is love
Love is blind
Ray Charles is blind
Therefore, Ray Charles is God “

Wow didn’t know ray could turn water to wine. Wonder if anyone told Mr. Charles he was God.

“The only difference between God and Adolf Hitler
is that God is more proficient at genocide”

Another one that can do the wine thing, (note to self--- must learn the wine thing)

SeedOfChaos · Post by **SeedOfChaos** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:19 am

Originally posted by IRS
I think the dude in charge of bad things is called the devil.

Who created him? He wasn't right there with God at the beginning of time, was he? Why did God create Evil and Satan?

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:23 am

Originally posted by SeedOfChaos
Who created him? He wasn't right there with God at the beginning of time, was he? Why did God create Evil and Satan?

Hmmmmm...interesting question. Could it be explained scientifically? Matter...anti-matter?

IRS · Post by **IRS** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:24 am

he was gods right hand angel, he kind of fell off the wwagon so to speek.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:26 am

Originally posted by IRS
he was gods right hand angel, he kind of fell off the wwagon so to speek.

So God created an imperfect being?

SeedOfChaos · Post by **SeedOfChaos** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:28 am

Originally posted by UOD
So God created an imperfect being?

..and being omniscious, knowing that it would be imperfect and rebel and fall?

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:28 am

Originally posted by UOD
So God created an imperfect being?

Yes...man.

*edit*..and I'm still kinda pissed about flys..

IRS · Post by **IRS** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:31 am

theres only one that is perfect.

SeedOfChaos · Post by **SeedOfChaos** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:36 am

Originally posted by IRS
theres only one that is perfect.

yes, why create rivals

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:36 am

Originally posted by IRS
theres only one that is perfect.

No...the question was, did God create an angel that he knew would fall from grace? Did he create an imperfect angel? Why?

IRS · Post by **IRS** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:47 am

sorry was on the phone with the wife, I cant even atempt to answer for God about why he would do anything, but when I see him i will ask, not to shure how i will get the answer back to you but i will give it a shot.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:51 am

Originally posted by UOD
No...the question was, did God create an angel that he knew would fall from grace? Did he create an imperfect angel? Why?

Because how else can we learn how to grow? How can we exprience sadness, fear, hatred, anger, forgiveness?

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:51 am

Originally posted by IRS
sorry was on the phone with the wife, I cant even atempt to answer for God about why he would do anything, but when I see him i will ask, not to shure how i will get the answer back to you but i will give it a shot.

Well, all things being equal, God knowingly created the devil. Since God knows all, then it is logical to deduce that he created an angel that he knew would fall from his grace.

Agreed?

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:55 am

Originally posted by davy19
Because how else can we learn how to grow? How can we exprience sadness, fear, hatred, anger, forgiveness?

yet we strive to live without sadness, fear, hatred, anger, and without having the need to forgive. If everyone did the right thing, we wouldn't need to forgive.

I can't imagine what it would be like to live a life where nothing but love and compassion exists. I think we could evolve exponentially if that were the case. Instead, we have hatred, and anger, and fear...all obstacles to growth.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:01 am

Originally posted by UOD
yet we strive to live without sadness, fear, hatred, anger, and without having the need to forgive. If everyone did the right thing, we wouldn't need to forgive.

I can't imagine what it would be like to live a life where nothing but love and compassion exists. I think we could evolve exponentially if that were the case. Instead, we have hatred, and anger, and fear...all obstacles to growth.

If everyone did the right thing, we would not be human.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:10 am

Originally posted by Paft
Indeed you are correct. Look up 'Transendance'. It's where a species evolves so much that they reach a new level of being. We've already done it once, Homoe Erectus to Homo Sapien, and we're probally going to do it again with the aid of computers.

Now how's this god of yours going to react when humanity can do what he did with impunity?

We become one with God, and go back to our creator

IRS · Post by **IRS** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:12 am

Well, all things being equal, God knowingly created the devil. Since God knows all, then it is logical to deduce that he created an angel that he knew would fall from his grace.

Agreed?
Correct
There are many things that took place in the Bible that I often think why didn’t he do it this way, but as davy19 said “Because how else can we learn how to grow? How can we experience sadness, fear, hatred, anger, forgiveness?”
This is one explanation, but is it true? I don’t know it fits certain criteria but once again I have to say only God knows why he did anything.
*sorry i'm a bit slow on this comp at work have to copy and past from word as this ie has no spell check*

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:15 am

Originally posted by Paft
It would seem like that wouldn't it.

Revelations tells you otherwise.

As soon as the bible can adequately explain E=MC^2, evolution, and not use sticks as a basis for genetics (Genesis, Abraham laid sticks of different bark in front of anamals and believed that that determined their birth makup).. It might become believeable then.

I dont believe in most of what revelations tells us, i belive that was written and rewritten to scare people.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:20 am

Originally posted by davy19
If everyone did the right thing, we would not be human.

If you are a believer, then you are trying to do just that....once you are dead and go to heaven, and sit alonside the throne of God, you are no longer human...you are a different being that will live forever.

IRS · Post by **IRS** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:25 am

UOD, that’s right but it needs a bit more emphasis on the part where it says trying.

IRS · Post by **IRS** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:26 am

back in a bit - lunch time

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:28 am

Originally posted by UOD
If you are a believer, then you are trying to do just that....once you are dead and go to heaven, and sit alonside the throne of God, you are no longer human...you are a different being that will live forever.

Right, but I dont believe you can do it in one lifetime. I believe God loves sinners just as much as saints, he treats us all the same.

Way too much to learn.

I have many past lives, more then I thought.