Need car help, please.

grundy · Post by **grundy** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:44 pm

I have a 1991 Honda Civic Hatchback - running strong with 185,000 on it. The problem is that I get water leaking into the trunk area when it rains - which it does quite a lot here in NorCal.

Last year I thought that I had the problem solved. The rain gutters drain onto the tops of the taillight assemblies - the taillights were filling up with water and leaking into the trunk. After failing to keep the water out, I simply drilled drainholes in the taillights assemblies and had no more problems.

We just had our first serious rain here, and the trunk is once again full of water - seems to be isolated to the right side. I don't think it came through the taillights, but I can't figure out where the water has come from.

Any suggestions on what might be the source of the leak?

Anybody know of any Honda Civic forums that are NOT all about "modding"? the only Civic forums I've found on google haven't exactly been what I'm looking for...

thanks in advance.

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:51 pm

Open your trunk and gently and carefully poor water inside the water channels on either side of the trunk. Somewhere the water is jumping the channel or finding a way through the trunk gasket. Perhaps it's being re-channeled (dead animal) near the tail lights so it goes into the trunk.

grundy · Post by **grundy** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:53 pm

thanks MD, I've tried water testing and haven't found the source of the leak... it's driving me nuts!

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:30 pm

You could always get into the trunk and have a very trusted friend run a garden hose over the back of the car while you and your trusty flashlight keep an eye out for intruding water from inside the trunk.

grundy · Post by **grundy** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:55 pm

yeah, I suppose so. what I can't figure out is that, when I have tried water testing it before, I haven't found ANY evidence of water intrusion. That made sense with the light assembly problem - water entered slowly and it took a while to build up to the point where it leaked into the car. I think it might be something similar this time - doesn't seem to leak unless there's prolonged exposure to water.

Since its raining right now, I'm thinking of dusting the interior of the trunk area with flour, leaving it in the rain, and hoping that the flour shows where water is entering from...

Humboldt · Post by **Humboldt** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:30 pm

Hey Grundy, hope you're doing well. Hell of a 3-week storm, eh?

All I can suggest is to check the gasket all the way around the trunk, on my Pathfinder it leaks near the top corner just a bit. Which I assume you'vve already done several times, so...park on a slight incline so the water drains off the back without puddling inside

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:36 pm

The taillight assembly has a rubber gasket around it as well. Might want to check those gaskets to be sure they’re doing what they are designed to do (keep water out).

Humboldt · Post by **Humboldt** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:39 pm

Maybe you have a trunk gnome with a bladder problem.

RoundEye · Post by **RoundEye** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:48 pm

Originally posted by grundy
... I'm thinking of dusting the interior of the trunk area with flour, leaving it in the rain, and hoping that the flour shows where water is entering from...

Since you drilled holes in the tail lights, why not drill holes in the trunk?

If you want to find the leak, I've used spray-on athlete's foot powder in the past. Get the kind that leaves a white residue, that way you can spray it all over. Sometimes a rear window will let water get into the trunk, the gasket gets bad and small areas of rust form, resulting in leaks. Also look around the rim of the trunk lid for drain holes, they may be clogged up, you may even have to shoot compressed air through them, to open them up again.

grundy · Post by **grundy** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 7:01 pm

Humboldt: I missed most of the storm - safe in MX with my girlfriend

We flew into SF Sunday night, during the storm - scariest airplane ride of my life! My mom (in Sonoma county) caught plenty of storm action and had no lights for a week - and the next one is just hitting now. Matter of fact Mt Diablo is covered with snow, so I'm out the door to go play in that.

MadDoc - I replaced the gaskets around the taillights. Turns out that the lights are so old the seams have opened up and they let water in from all over... that's why I drilled the holes.

Roundeye - Actually, I thought about drilling holes in the trunk, under the spare tire, and still might... The athletes foot spray is a good idea, I dusted everything with flour and left it out in the rain - and it didn't leak - so I'm still not sure what's going on.

Thanks for the help, I'll keep ya updated.

mwkirchner · Post by **mwkirchner** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:46 pm

Originally posted by grundy
I have a 1991 Honda Civic Hatchback - running strong with 185,000 on it. The problem is that I get water leaking into the trunk area when it rains -

Lucky you ... I happen to work on these.

You need to change the gaskets that are behind the tail light assemblies. Drilling the lights will NOT do it. The gaskets get dry rotted and shrink and cause the kind of leak you are speaking of. We do quite a few of these and the Accords from that era.

grundy · Post by **grundy** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 5:54 pm

I did replace the gaskets, which didn't solve the problem. The combination of new gaskets plus drainholes seems to have cured THAT problem, now I think I have a new one.

I dusted the inside of the trunk area with flour, and left the car out in the rain. Looks like water is coming in from the vicinity of the right shockstrut. I'll post a picture if I get time. I can't figure out where it might be coming from.

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:01 pm

You sure it is not the rear windows? If the seal was bad or there was something causing a gap in the window seal then it could leak down and into the trunk. Is the rear deck wet when this happens? Might not even get affected actually if it just drips over the edge. Have you checked whether the rear washer fluid is leaking? Would be soapy if that was the case. It could be coming up from the bottom. Do you notice that it leaks when you have not been driving it?

Going along with the hose idea, you could go to a car wash and have a buddy spray all around with the spayer while you look inside.

My 91 Honda Civic Hatchback leaked too, but that was cause my great dane chewed all the weather stripping out of it. So with mine it was the driver side rear window that leaked.

Is it coming from one side or just appearing in the middle?

grundy · Post by **grundy** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 1:19 pm

- the car leaks when it is parked

- it only leaks during prolonged rain

- the water seems to be leaking in from under the side plastic around the rear shock strut, as highlighted in the photo

- there is no water on the interior side of the plastic, it seems to be entering only where shown

- all that white crap is flour that I sprinkled in there to see where the water was coming from

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 1:46 pm

How hard is it to remove that panel? (The one that covers that shock tower) It weems like it would be a PITA, but it sounds like it is coming from somewhere under there. Maybe MW could tell you whether it is a major pain to get that panel out. I suspect it is going under that panel, the problem is to see where it is coming from it seems like you need to see the path it is taking.

Could it be coming in from the rear window and just going under the plastic?

By the way you may want to go to a automotive paint store, or a hardware store, and get a fairly large bag of stuff for absorbing the moisture. Can't remember what it is called (humectant or something). You can put it in the car overnight and then stick the stuff in the oven to dry it out. It is not to be put directly in the puddle, but it will help dehumidify the rest of the car. I think it might cost as much as twenty bucks a bag, but that is better than the interior molding

grundy · Post by **grundy** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 2:33 pm

looks like a major PITA to remove that panel - it goes from the corner of the trunk area all the way up to the door.

I'm thinking that the leak must be coming from the window seal - I just took a look at the seal and it looks suspect. I'll try running a hose on it later - right now I'm in xmas shopping overdrive - and see it that's the problem. Looks like there's a bad spot in the seal about above the wet area.

Is there anywhere else the water might be coming from?

Also, is there any kind of sealant that I can put on the window seal temporarily, as I won't have a chance to replace it for a while?

and, lastly, thanks for all the help!

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 2:48 pm

I can not think of anything that won't be a pain to remove when you do have time to deal with it. Weather stripping would make enough of a bulge to cause its own gap. Silicone would be a real chore to remove when it comes time to fix it. If you see a spot that has an obvious crack in the seal you might be able to spot seal it, silicone or some other caulking, but like I said it might be more of a pain later.
Good luck!

It is a bit cracker but you could get a waterproof tape and just tape the perimeter of the window, but it wont last long with the wind, heat, cold, and rain affecting it regularly. Also you would want something that would not leave a residue when you do remove it. Whatever you would use to remove the gunk would not be good for paint or wax.

mwkirchner · Post by **mwkirchner** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 6:50 pm

Originally posted by De Plano
... Maybe MW could tell you whether it is a major pain to get that panel out.

That panel is and isn't a pain in the arse. For someone that works on them all the time ... it is easy. For someone who does not .. it can be.

I can not remember exactly how it comes off. I do know that you will have to remove the panel that runs across the back of the well because it overlaps the panel you are trying to remove. You will also have to remove the upper rear seat ... the part that you fold down. I am sitting here trying to remember how that comes out.

Hmmm ... I think you have to peel the ends of the carpet up on the bottom side of the back panel to see if there are any bolts that may need to be removed. On some of them you will be able to see a small plastic sleeve like item that goes over the shaft that the seat pivots on. By removing it (it is only a half clip like item) you can then slide the seat on the shaft and pull up on it to remove it.

Once you have that out ... you should look around to see if there are any screws at the corners of the side panel. You have to look close because sometimes they are hidden under little covers. You can pry the covers up with a small tip screwdriver. The rest of the panel should be held in with clips. You will have to give it a quick jerk at the places where the clips are to break them loose.

You may have to remove the panel that runs above the black panel at the rear of the door ... but I am not 100% sure about the. If it looks like the black panel is under the other panel then you will have to remove it.

I can look this up to give you better discriptions if you want. I can take my digital camera to work and photograph the pages and upload them here for you. Let me know if you want me to do that. I will be more then happy to do that for you.

p2ii · Post by **p2ii** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 7:14 pm

I had a '90 accord LXi that had the same exact problem for the last 3 years of its' life(been gone for 6 months now)and I never found the problem.

mwkirchner · Post by **mwkirchner** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 7:19 pm

Originally posted by p2ii
I had a '90 accord LXi that had the same exact problem for the last 3 years of its' life(been gone for 6 months now)and I never found the problem.

I have a 1990 Honda Accord and the problem on that is the tail light gaskets. I just replaced the ones on mine because it started doing that.

grundy · Post by **grundy** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 7:35 pm

thanks MW, I'm hoping not to take the panel out. I took a close look at the window seal, and I think it is the culprit. I'll try to test and see, but hopefully that's it and there will be no need to take out the panel.

two questions:

can you point me at a good how-to for replacing window seals?

where should I buy a new seal? I assume the honda ones are expensive, is there a less expensive alternative, and if so is there a noticeable difference in quality?

mwkirchner · Post by **mwkirchner** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 8:20 pm

Originally posted by grundy

two questions:

can you point me at a good how-to for replacing window seals?

where should I buy a new seal? I assume the honda ones are expensive, is there a less expensive alternative, and if so is there a noticeable difference in quality?

I can take pictures in the manual at work on Monday and post them here Monday night.

I would suggest getting them from Honda ... but you may be able to get them thru a local windshield shop. They do all windows and may be able to get them for you.

grundy · Post by **grundy** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 9:21 pm

thanks MW, the pics would be a help.

mwkirchner · Post by **mwkirchner** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:31 pm

Originally posted by grundy
thanks MW, the pics would be a help.

I will try to get some pictures taken for you when we go back to work on Thursday. I will try to get them on here for you.

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Need car help, please.

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