Will Computers Ever be Superior to Humans Intellectually?

Blitz · Post by **Blitz** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:02 pm

I'm doing a Philosophy Presentation On This Subject.....

Any input? Links?

Fire Away

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:04 pm

no, i don't see how that will ever happen.

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:04 pm

In my opinion no.

A computer is only as smart as the user.

SICMF · Post by **SICMF** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:06 pm

A.I = DANGER

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:09 pm

Judging by the number of questions in these forums on a daily basis, I'd say they already have most humans beat

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:17 pm

nope. not possible.

Blitz · Post by **Blitz** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:21 pm

Can I have some reasons why?

Some links, info......

Ok....what about Deep Blue Beating Gary Kasporov.....is that a sign that there is a chance of it happening?

(I'm not saying there is, I'm just trying to ignite a discussion, with more depth, instead of just "Nope, no chance"

)

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:22 pm

Originally posted by Blitz
I'm just trying to ignite a discussion, with more depth, instead of just "Nope, no chance" )

Nada

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:23 pm

computers are devoid of the one thing that betrays man of his good judgement....emotion. They simply use logic.

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:24 pm

I would bet a weeks pay that if you put 100 average humans up against a computer in an intelligence type test, the computer would beat more than 50% of them.

A very high percentage of humans are incredibly stupid.

Blitz · Post by **Blitz** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:25 pm

oooooooo, very nice

I definetly will use that in my conclusion, I like that line....

whats your first and last name, I'll need it for my bibliography

Blitz · Post by **Blitz** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:26 pm

Originally posted by Norm
I would bet a weeks pay that if you put 100 average humans up against a computer in an intelligence type test, the computer would beat more than 50% of them.

A very high percentage of humans are incredibly stupid.

I agree, i just need a website/proof of stats

Blitz · Post by **Blitz** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:27 pm

Originally posted by John
I think computers will be superior to humans intellectually, in time.

But why?

Arghhhh, I need info/theories/laws......

but in the meanwhile, I shall make a trip to the library tonight, find some stuff

SICMF · Post by **SICMF** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:27 pm

We need to be careful about how/what we advance in/with. Hopefully we are smart enough not to make something smarter than us. The mentor will soon become the pupil.

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:28 pm

It took our very best chess player to beat a computer at chess, and if I remember correctly, there was a draw on one or more games.

Computers can already outsmart the average human. Try playing big blue a game of chess, and you'll see.

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:32 pm

I think it's rather simple. Put togethor a new box. Put no OS on the HDD. Power it up. Set the most simple human next to it. Ask both questions. Human wins every time. A computer needs a human to program it and tell it what to "think" about. Thats the way it will always have to be. Therefore...no not possible.

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:32 pm

Tell 1000 people how to solve a physics or math problem, and tell a computer the same.

The computer will always get the right answer, whereas the people will not always be right.

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:33 pm

Originally posted by Norm
It took our very best chess player to beat a computer at chess, and if I remember correctly, there was a draw on one or more games.

Computers can already outsmart the average human. Try playing big blue a game of chess, and you'll see.

Hell, a 6th grader can kick my ass in a game of chess let alone a computer. lol

Put me up against a computer fishing and I bet I can kicks it's ass.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:44 pm

Well, it really boils down to semantics. If you're talking knowledge, then computers have humans beat hands down even now...if you're talking about intelligence, well, that's something altogether different.

Intelligence implies the capacity to know or understand, and as long as computers lack that ability, they will be inferior to humans.

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:53 pm

The game of chess involves strategy, and thinking many moves ahead, not to mention having a good memory. It's not just knowledge of the game, and the rules, it involves 'thinking' of possible moves/outcomes, and 'choosing' the best option.

Again, humans are inferior (the majority)

Teach a computer the same things you teach humans, and they will remember better, they will be right more often, and they will not allow emotion to interfere with thier answers.

monkeyhead · Post by **monkeyhead** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:58 pm

Originally posted by Blitz

whats your first and last name, I'll need it for my bibliography

LOL that made me laugh

monkeyhead · Post by **monkeyhead** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:06 am

computers will become superior because of their errorless ability.... humans can make errors, computers dont. (well except windows).. but no... you get my point... to start.... do simple math in your head like adding all numbers from 100-999.... computer will win.... a computer can map out every possibly way a thing can happen... their are military computers that can simulate war (Wargames)....

ok so... conclusion though is... yea computers need to be programmed.... but after programmed a computer is errorless....

my thoughts seem jumbled... and im tired.... good luck though with your paper.....

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:13 am

Originally posted by monkeyhead
their are military computers that can simulate war (Wargames)....

The WOPR:

Shall we play a game?

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:15 am

http://www.mitre.org/research/nanotech/ ... uters.html

This is proof that computers are headed into the direction of the human/animal nervous system.

With DNA and nanotechnology, computers are now solving complex problems at the molecular level which is how animals and humans solve problems....but they are doing it artificially which is the breakthrough.

We can add, subtract, multiply, divide, etc. and we do it at the molecular level. Computers are doing the same but it is based on silicon.

Once we cross the line and teach computers how to solve problems on our molecular level...they will be operating as equals. It will not take them long to surpass us.

You should read up on the ethics of this debate.

The naysayers in this debate need to be reminded that the world was once thought flat!

We have been wrong before!

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:16 am

once a computer creates a human then i'll buy that they are more intelligent. Until then..........computers follow the instructions of humans. If a computer wasn't programmed that 2+2=4 it would never know. If a computer wasn't programmed about chess and fed every possible move, every possible defense it wouldn't know the difference between a rook and a knight.

G-IcE · Post by **G-IcE** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:19 am

Originally posted by Norm
Tell 1000 people how to solve a physics or math problem, and tell a computer the same.

The computer will always get the right answer, whereas the people will not always be right.

i believe that's because that same computer has been fed those answers by people while "the people" have had to study on their own.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:21 am

Originally posted by 64bit
once a computer creates a human then i'll buy that they are more intelligent. Until then..........computers follow the instructions of humans. If a computer wasn't programmed that 2+2=4 it would never know. If a computer programmed about chess and fed every possible move every possible defense it wouldn't know the difference between a rook and a knight.

Again, all I'm saying is that we are headed into uncharted territory here.

What about self replicating nano circuits? These are self healing computers....

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... o+circuits

My worry is that once we turn them on...will we be able to turn them off?

Chaos theory....life will find a way...even if violent.

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:27 am

Here is just one more point. Program a computer to always spit back the answer blue when the question is asked what color is a red apple. Now you can show that computer pictures of the apple all day and type in hey cant you see this thing is red I say red. But ask the question again and the computer will dutifly reply the apple is blue. It can't sit there and have a epiphany and all the sudden see that indeed the red apple is red.

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:28 am

Originally posted by 64bit
once a computer creates a human then i'll buy that they are more intelligent. Until then..........computers follow the instructions of humans. If a computer wasn't programmed that 2+2=4 it would never know. If a computer wasn't programmed about chess and fed every possible move, every possible defense it wouldn't know the difference between a rook and a knight.

Humans are programmed as well. Lock a baby in a room with no contact with anyone from birth to 30 years old, and ask him/her what 2+2 is.

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:31 am

who is feeding this baby then

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:32 am

Originally posted by 64bit
who is feeding this baby then

A computer

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:34 am

thats a great point dude

humans have to be taught and taken care of too

computers have to be taught and taken care of

same difference

and like john said, make a program that can adapt itself and change its code, modify itself to learn and adapt to situations and you have a 'learning computer'

one that can learn to think on its own and make decisions

i just hope it makes good ones and doesn't have some underlying base kernal code making it an evil computer that wants to destroy the world

i have a great fear about an actual AI 'thinking computer' that is completely intelligent with a mind of its own

no telling what could happen

SLK · Post by **SLK** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:34 am

as long as windows xp is around most likely NOT. dam thing memory dumps too much to actually do something.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:35 am

Originally posted by John
"My CPU is a NeuroNet Processor, a learning computer"

- Terminator 2

thats exactly what i was thinking of when i posted it

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:41 am

A computers idea of how to solve the population problem may be to kill a couple billion people, since no emotion is there to stop it.

Humans on the other hand would let emotion rule over reason and keep the old and sick alive as long as medically, and financially possible.

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:41 am

Originally posted by John
All that is required is a computer program to be written that in turn can modify it's own code and further develop itself, without human interaction. It can take all the knowledge and information it has and translate it into various intelligences, it can grow and adapt.

adapt to what and for what though. A computer is a tool that humans invented to make complex taks eaiser, thats all. A computer can't think or reason on its own. Intelligence is gained through out life by reasoning and applying skills learned along the way. If a computer doesnt have a task to complete given to it by a human it is of no use to itself or us. What materials can it use to gain knowledge other that hard facts and statistics supplied by humans. It can't have relationships and it cant put it self in situations to further it's understanding or learing no matter what the transport(robot, desktop computer, nano-circuit). A computer has no drive no ambition to learn. It gets everything it will ever do from a human in some way shape or form.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:43 am

Originally posted by Norm
A computers idea of how to solve the population problem may be to kill a couple billion people, since no emotion is there to stop it.

Humans on the other hand would let emotion rule over reason and keep the old and sick alive as long as medically, and financially possible.

there ya go!

computers don't have emotion

but WHAT IF, they could develop an algorithym that imitates or even adaptively changes emotion in them

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:44 am

Originally posted by Norm
A computers idea of how to solve the population problem may be to kill a couple billion people, since no emotion is there to stop it.

Humans on the other hand would let emotion rule over reason and keep the old and sick alive as long as medically, and financially possible.

Yes but where would the computer get an idea of killing. It cant think of ending humans lives all by it self. It cant even tell you what killing is without being told by a human.

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:45 am

Originally posted by 64bit
adapt to what and for what though. A computer is tool that humans invented to make complex taks eaiser, thats all. A computer can't think or reason on its own. Intelligence is gained through out life by reasoning and applying skills learned along the way. If a computer doesnt have a task to complete given to it by a human it is of no use to itself or us. What materials can it use to gain knowledge other that hard facts and statistics supplied by humans. It can't have relationships and it cant put it self in situations to further it's understanding or learing no matter what the transport(robot, desktop computer, nano-circuit). A computer has no drive no ambition to learn. It gets everything it will ever do from a human in some way shape or form.

Without gidance from other humans, neither does a human.

Leave a baby on it's own and it will die.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:49 am

I think Intelligent computers are Inevitable

the question is when

and the answer is when they are powerful enough to do so

i.e. quantum computers with optic types of memory and storage that is fast and enormouse in capacity

its a ways down the road...

but programing today is getting there... there are already adaptive programs that can change to how you do things...

take Windows XP for example, it has it within itself that it can determine what services and programs you start up with mostly to speed up the process of their launching and when you start WinXP it learns only what it needs to boot up so that it can discard un-needed things and boot up faster, thats how it boots faster then win2k or win98....

we are at the beginning of adaptive and learning programs