Being a Muslim

[Gandalf]

Is there a law or religious beliefs by being a muslim to kill and to be good

or what


I mean there are some muslims here in the states are pretty cool they just pray and stuff

Why are those in the middle east so harsh to us? ( or most of them )

Why do religion do this ?

God teach us to be friends not foes


Than again i don't know

what is the true answer out there?

What i see going in the middle east is it really religion or just hatred for power?

[Croc]

Here's a start for you to read about Muslim Extremists This has a lot to do with Osama Bin Laden.


You could also "Google" the word *Koran* and have a read of the Muslim Bible.
There was a thread about this not so long ago.

With complements: Google and the entry "muslim extremist beliefs" in the searchbar. From that you would be reading for months.

Have fun.

Croc.

[A_old]

Originally posted by Gandalf
Is there a law or religious beliefs by being a muslim to kill and to be good

or what


I mean there are some muslims here in the states are pretty cool they just pray and stuff

Why are those in the middle east so harsh to us? ( or most of them )

Why do religion do this ?

God teach us to be friends not foes


Than again i don't know

what is the true answer out there?

What i see going in the middle east is it really religion or just hatred for power?

No, there's no religious belief that states that in Islam. There are versus in the Koran that say to kill infidels..etc.. but they have been taken out of context. You're not supposed to kill unless you're attacked (or fight at all for that matter). The extremists pervert the religion. As for who the extremists are, they're peope like bin laden and saddam. As for those in the mideast, they don't see what those here see. All they see is a harsh treatment of their brothers and sisters in Iraq, a lot of death in Afganistan, and flexing of Israeli muscle through U.S. Aid. As for the Iraq thing, Saddam's a bastage. He needs to go..most people don't like him anyway. As for the Afganistan thing, they know bin laden is bad but they don't want more death there. Finally, the Palestine-Israel thing...isn't just Muslims, it's Muslim and Christian Palestinians and the Muslims in the mideast are backing them... so they don't like Israel as a whole (could be because of power, could be because they're stereotypical of Judaism, or it could be that they see the Palestinians as people banding together without a real military to fight this big bad army..who knows anymore..it's just a big mess). You're right, God does teach us to be friends, but Pres. Bush is pushing to kill a bunch of people (he may not have a choice as far as Iraq goes, Saddam probably DOES have the weapons, so IMHO we should just take him out quick with as little death as possible on both sides) to them. He is NOT taking a hard line against Israel (and all that happens is they kill some, and the Palestinians kill some back---vicious sick cycle ). Muslims just want it over without death (which at this point is almost impossible. As for what you see in the mideast, I don't know. I do know that if you go to Egypt, my home country, that a lot of people (especially college students and teens) immitate the western ideals of democracy, freedom, etc.. The religion has nothing to do with how they feel. Iraq, saddam wants more land, oil, and basically money. Afganistan..it's a mess, who knows anymore but bin laden's alive still and i want him dead (this is harsh of me, but he gives a lot of good people bad names). Palestine-Israel, I've almost given up on this because I don't see an end in my lifetime. I think it lost it's value a long time ago, it's just two sides fighting for land. I'm about to just put a sprinkler in the gobi and heliflight half of em out there and say here, not shut up so I don't see you on the news everyday. I don't have all of the answers either, but that's my answer to your questions from a more "moderate" muslim's view. I must also say that everyone I know here is split.. some people support bush, but don't like his stance on palestine-israel conflict (basically no hard line to stop it fast). Next, where did the Iraq thing come from? Why will they not give us the evidence that they think saddam is doing something.. a guy called in on cnn and said I don't like it, too much death (this was an american-mid aged-by the tone of voice) show me some proof.. the cabinet member's response was "uhh, uhh..the proof is itself harmful to the american people" or some bull like that.. Now tell me how are people supposed to make their minds up intelligently. If you don't know my views on the word "terrorist" search my posts and see. I think it's the oppitome of stupidity and I don't see how bush can label a group in a finite means with one definition and apply it to a subsection in that group while ignoring the rest. I support our president, but I am skeptical and am worried of his .... "smarts" so to speak. I mean, have you read some of the things he's quoted to have said?? I don't know what to think at this point, I'm going to be late for class if I don't get off and get ready, so I'll post again later. I hope I didn't offend anyone, It's just my opinion and take on things. I'm most upset (yes saddam is a bastage, i know) that the Iraq conflict came out of no where again (where is this supposed evidence.. don't try to justify it with the need to know bassis/classified thing, that's worthless on this issue IMHO)....and that bush isn't basically going to palestine and israel and pulling all troops and saying "both of you stop your bitching or all U.S. aid will be pulled and you'll piss us off, you have 72 Hours to stop" or something like that..just MHO. I hope i helped. i'm a moderate with a little lean on the conservative side, i'm open minded--so while i don't want to argue about my own opinion, i'm open to seeing other's.


later
Amro

[Brk]

I think the perversion of Islam as a "religion of peace" and the juxtaposed view of it through the actions of terrorists and their ilk is only furthered by the fact that very few, if any, major Muslim leaders are openly -- and consistently -- visible in denouncing extremists and their interpretation of the Koran. There have been a few who say suicide bombings and sich actions are wrong, but it's only been a scattered soundbite here and there. So far, I've only heard American Muslims be vocal about this; I don't hear the leadership in the most centralized areas of Islam (Middle East, Indonesia) condemning terrorism or the arguments of the extremists at all.

[A_old]

Originally posted by Burke
I think the perversion of Islam as a "religion of peace" and the juxtaposed view of it through the actions of terrorists and their ilk is only furthered by the fact that very few, if any, major Muslim leaders are openly -- and consistently -- visible in denouncing extremists and their interpretation of the Koran. There have been a few who say suicide bombings and sich actions are wrong, but it's only been a scattered soundbite here and there. So far, I've only heard American Muslims be vocal about this; I don't hear the leadership in the most centralized areas of Islam (Middle East, Indonesia) condemning terrorism or the arguments of the extremists at all.

this is pretty much true, muslims are supposed to stick together, and humans as a whole are supposed to also.. unfortunately because of this, and because they don't see bush making steps to end the 'fighting' in israel and the whole 'lets get iraq' out of no where thing (no where as far as we're concenened since for like 9 or 10 years there was little news coverage of ANYthing aboutt them)...makes them want to stay clear of the US. They do know that saddam has issues. They don't want to start a war and waste their cash. I agree w/ you. mm. we should see more from them, but "i" think it'll that more than "you're with us or against us" to get them to do so. It'll take a hard line on israel AND palestine to do it...

[parse27]

religious intolerance is what it is. kindled more by subscribing to a fundamentalist-extremist warped view of the dogma of a religion to assuage and/or exorcise private demons by persecuting or taking it out on others.

sad.

[Inverse]

I don't even bother reading posts that are that long, I guess I'm just impatient:}> and Gandalf, sup my bnet war brother, load load load them bots, get them channel ops, tag ban *~TG|{~* and F them [vL] sloths.

[Gandalf]

HAHAHAH inverse i will don't worry





See what i hate most about hearing crap in the middle east is whenever there is a terrorist attack " there is always an excuse that it is the right of being a muslim or the power of islam gives them the right to do this" , sad thing is most people over there aren't really educated and is fooled by these extremist. Most terrorist was born to fight back against the United States or protect "Islam"


Whatever one day this is gonna be ended by a cloud of mushroom smokes.

Or the 2nd coming.

[torsten]

How can anyone define what a religion REALLY is? For the most part, it's what its followers say it is. And right now, people are saying some very conflicting things. I do know that it's not helpful to accept an idealized version of things just so people can feel good. We have to deal with the forces of the religion as they are manifesting themselves in the world today.

[A_old]

trust me torsten, i don't say anything to feel good. it's rubbish to. ignorance of the masses doesn't help and trying to better explain things might. they're definately entitled to their opinion, blind hate isn't what we need though.

[Brent]

propaganda

that's why the people over there think the way they do about us

[Inverse]

Sniper is still on the loose, wounder how many more he'll get b4 they catch him.

[A_old]

Originally posted by Brent
propaganda

that's why the people over there think the way they do about us

that's why we think the same of them ...shrug..i thought gandalf was honestly asking a question, so i responded to try and give my explanation and the way i look at it. didn't know it was just a thread put out to make fun (of my belief). if i knew, i wouldn't have wasted my time putting out an opinion. i guess when you guys get death threat calls to your homes at 1 or 2 am, you'll enjoy life like i do. I'll just stick to answering questions in the hardware forum, it's simpler anyway.

later,
Amro

[Brent]

Originally posted by Amro
that's why we think the same of them ...shrug..

we live in that kinda world

sucks huh

[A_old]

Originally posted by Brent
we live in that kinda world

sucks huh

yea guess so, ever feel like you're the only one trying to change it?

[Deus ex Machina]

The Middle East is every bit a fractous lot as Europe, religion be damned. Saddam Hussein/Iraq had nerve gas and other biologic weapons during the Gulf War. He had used these instruments of mass death on Iran during their long war and on the Kurds. He DID NOT use them on the "common enemy" of Muslims, Israel. Rather curious since he did fire the Scud missile into Israeli cities.

Islam is little different than any other faith in that evil people will hide behind its self righteous rhetoric while they perform atrocities. The same well applies to certain Jewish people in Israel as well.

[cyberskye]

Read up on the Crusades - christianity's attempt to purge the world of non-believers.

Read up on the birth of Israel as a nation - league of nations role and such - and you might see why the middle east views america and the west as they do.

When you live without much hope in this life - as many middleasterners do today - you spend much morer time focused on the next life and, therefore, god.

News/media also focus on the shocking side of events. I am sure some folks would view david koresh or timothy mcveigh as representative of christianity.

fundamentalism is fundamentalism. Notice how hairy things get when folks start saying that they are speaking for god - or know it's will more clearly than others?

my $.02

[Gandalf]

If you think im making fun of Muslims your wrong


I respect all Relgion that is "Good" and Islam is part of it.

Even if i don't like the way some people in the relgion do things doesn't mean i hate all of them for it..

[Deus ex Machina]

Originally posted by cyberskye
Read up on the Crusades - christianity's attempt to purge the world of non-believers.

Read up on the birth of Israel as a nation - league of nations role and such - and you might see why the middle east views america and the west as they do.

When you live without much hope in this life - as many middleasterners do today - you spend much morer time focused on the next life and, therefore, god.
my $.02

some thoughts....

This thread is a redundancy in the sense that most of the viewpoints and information sources have been put out on the table. Israel from biblical to Roman diaspora to living under Islamic law (Forced tithes to Muslim clergy) to the Balfour declaration to all the bizarre reasons and possibilities for the creation of Israel to the myriad of conflicts have been discussed. No need to read up on it.

Evil people and their intentions are justified by them as the "Will of G-d" The Crusades and Moorish invasions were no different. (I could add Ben-Gurion's vision for Israeli expansion...)

I believe it was Sitting Bull (Please correct me and I am paraphrasing) who said, The white man came with their bible and we had our land. Now we have their bible and they have our land."

Poverty and oppression exist in other places aside from the Middle East (I know... duh) The poor will listen to nearly any leader for who is to blame for their condition.

shant,
david