I am a MS supporter,and I should have posted this along time ago

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 6:52 pm

On Microsoft's Being Forced To Split:

Wow, what an awesome day for computing! Thanks, Judge Jackson!

Just think, in today's horribly noncompetitive, Microsoft-dominated
environment, we have no real browser choices at all, except for AwebII,
Amaya, Arachne, Cello, Chimera, Grail, HotJava, I-Com, I-View, IBrowse,
InterGo, Internet Workhorse, Lynx, Mosaic/MultiLingual Mosaic, NeoPlanet,
NetCruiser, Netscape, Mozilla, OmniWeb, Opera, Quarterdeck, Spyglass,
STiK/CAB, Sesame Navigator, SlipKnot, Softerm, Tango, Tiber, TkWWW,
UdiWWW, Voyager, WebExplorer, WebTV, iCAB, Microsoft's Internet Explorer
and a few others; or about 100 different ones in all if you count various
subtypes and versions. Thank you, Judge Jackson, from rescuing us from
this lack of choice!

Likewise, in today's horribly noncompetitive, Microsoft-dominated
operating system environment, we are totally *straightjacketed* into
running only BeOS or FreeBSD or FreeDOS or Solaris or OS/2 or the MacOS
or the AmigaOS or any of the many classic *NIXen or any of the
approximate 50(!) flavors of Linux--- or one of the 5 flavors of Windows
in wide circulation. I can't wait until we actually have some choices!

Clearly, Microsoft's stranglehold on the industry has completely stifled
development of all alternative approaches and kept prices artificially
high, which is why computers remain exotic and rare luxury purchases in
the hands of only tiny numbers of the super-rich and the technologically
elite.

Thanks to Judge Jackson's vision and courage, maybe one day we'll reach
the goal of having computers for the masses, in every business and many
homes; with hardware and software so cheap some companies--- ISPs, for
example--- will even be able to give away complete computer systems for
free, just for signing up! And we'll finally have a choice among dozens
of browsers and dozens of operating systems, many of which won't cost a
dime. Clearly, this happy day of cheap, ubiquitous hardware and abundant,
affordable software never would happen without Judge Jackson's brave
actions.

Er, waitaminit---it already happened? Long *before* Jackson's ruling?

Um, Judge, can we talk?

gmcd33 · Post by **gmcd33** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 7:56 pm

IMO thats why the Government should stay out of the free market economy.

People and Industry made America great, not Government programs.

sito · Post by **sito** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 8:02 pm

You shouldn't punish somebody for being smart. I'm pro MS. It's what I use.

tr87526 · Post by **tr87526** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 8:18 pm

I agree Crazy but the real problem is the MS Muscle. The fear is (and too some extent MS did this), was to force PC companies to load MS products only or else MS will cut them off.

I agree that is wrong.

But as for MS/Gates being a genuis and living the American dream, I can't fault him there. What he has done, all of wish we could.

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 8:33 pm

MS products are top notch.

Imagine how inexpensive MS could make them if piracy was stamped out too. They lose millions, if not billions every year to pirates.
As is, I don't think a couple hundred bucks is too much to ask for an OS like 98/2k/XP. If we had to write our own OS it would take years, (if at all) any programmer knows that.
Having an OS with all the practical apps included is great, not much need to install much in an MS OS, most proggies are included.
I heard it took 5 years, 5,000 people, and 5 Billion dollars to develope Win2K, they gotta get thier money back somehow, right?
As for MS tactics, and strong arming, nothing new to the business world. They all do it as much as they can get away with it. MS is no different, and with the power they wield, why not, it keeps them on top.

my 2 cents
want 5 more?

ncswimmer · Post by **ncswimmer** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 8:53 pm

The MS muscle is bad. Think how inexpensive MS and all other products would be if other companies could compete on a level playing field, and there was legitimate competition. Computer manufacturers should be able to put whatever software they think their customers will like, regardless of if it's MS or not. And think how much more secure everyone's computers would be if we could see the source code, so you can see why something happens, and can fix it if you want and have the knowhow.

Psalmist · Post by **Psalmist** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:08 pm

Microsoft is the modern version of Standard Oil. John David Rockefeller would be proud of Bill Gates' tactics. Sorry CM, but the browsers and OS's you mentioned are a very very some percent of the market. At 94% of the market, the US split up Standard oil.

david

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:12 pm

my problem is with spyware and sh!t

Psalmist · Post by **Psalmist** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:14 pm

Originally posted by YARDofSTUF
my problem is with spyware and sh!t

tell me about it!!!!!!

I am sick to death of people trying to poke around in my computer

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:15 pm

Originally posted by Psalmist
Microsoft is the modern version of Standard Oil. John David Rockefeller would be proud of Bill Gates' tactics. Sorry CM, but the browsers and OS's you mentioned are a very very some percent of the market. At 94% of the market, the US split up Standard oil.

david

uh gee! look how much good that did for our gas prices!

when ever the oil companies want more money
(IE holiday weekends) they just raise the prices or say there is a shortage! gee,,lets see,,the oils companies have no monopoly.ya right! I don't hear anyone sniveling about that!

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:17 pm

Originally posted by Psalmist

tell me about it!!!!!!

I am sick to death of people trying to poke around in my computer

so don't let em,,thats easily taken care of,,

you know what? if it was'nt MS it would be some other successful company all of you would be crying about!

Psalmist · Post by **Psalmist** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:18 pm

Originally posted by crazyman

uh gee! look how much good that did for our gas prices!

when ever they oil companies want more money
(IE holiday weekends) they just raise the prices or say there is a shortage! gee,,lets see,,the oils companies have no monopoly.ya right! I don't hear anyone sniveling about that!

All the oil companies are buying pretty much from the same source.... OPEC.... who have set the prices.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:18 pm

Originally posted by crazyman

uh gee! look how much good that did for our gas prices!

when ever the oil companies want more money
(IE holiday weekends) they just raise the prices or say there is a shortage! gee,,lets see,,the oils companies have no monopoly.ya right! I don't hear anyone sniveling about that!

actually breakign it up helped but the oil industry needs to be broken up and regulated at this point.

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:19 pm

Originally posted by Psalmist

tell me about it!!!!!!

I am sick to death of people trying to poke around in my computer

ya! as you type that in your MS OS in your MS browser,

listen,,,you have choices if you hate MS so much!

quit cryin'

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:20 pm

Originally posted by crazyman

ya! as you type that in your MS OS in your MS browser,

listen,,,you have choices if you hate MS so much!

quit cryin'

when i can play games on another OS i will switch

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:22 pm

I can see paying out the nose when Win95 first came out. What I cant' see is paying out the nose for bug fixes for the next two 9x's. That's pure BS. I get software upgrades for free from several software companys I've bought software from.

Even at that, I'd pay a resonable price for an OS upgrade. Resonable is the key word here.

Still if anyone is suggesting that Microsoft is NOT a monoply, think about it. Sure you can use something else, but we arn't talking about home use here. We're talking shcools, government offices, big companys that need some sort of similarity from one office to the next.

About Judge Jackson, yeah he was a bit heavy handed. I'd also like to say that the monoply suite probalby wouldn't have gone as far as it did if Microsoft hadn't insisted on lying to a federal judger that was already unsympathatic to them. Still it dosn't matter. The new regime will probably go soft on them.

In closing, I also would like to say that I too think Microsoft's software is topnotch. I feel that it's overpriced also.

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:23 pm

I am so sick of people crying about MS products while most of the apps they are using are MS products,,what the heck is really the problem?

is it that Bill Gates was successful?
is it that he is rich and you are'nt?

god dang,,relax about it,

or get tough and really use an alternative product!

Psalmist · Post by **Psalmist** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:24 pm

Originally posted by crazyman

ya! as you type that in your MS OS in your MS browser,

listen,,,you have choices if you hate MS so much!

quit cryin'

I need a tissue, Dan oh boo hoo hoo.... hold me....

My AmigaDOS was blown out of the water when Wintel published win3.0.... without paying royalties to Xerox, like Apple had. The games I play.... The video software I use all needs windows.

I am buying a mac for the office.....

david

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:24 pm

Originally posted by downhill
I can see paying out the nose when Win95 first came out. What I cant' see is paying out the nose for bug fixes for the next two 9x's. That's pure BS. I get software upgrades for free from several software companys I've bought software from.

Even at that, I'd pay a resonable price for an OS upgrade. Resonable is the key word here.

Still if anyone is suggesting that Microsoft is NOT a monoply, think about it. Sure you can use something else, but we arn't talking about home use here. We're talking shcools, government offices, big companys that need some sort of similarity from one office to the next.

About Judge Jackson, yeah he was a bit heavy handed. I'd also like to say that the monoply suite probalby wouldn't have gone as far as it did if Microsoft hadn't insisted on lying to a federal judger that was already unsympathatic to them. Still it dosn't matter. The new regime will probably go soft on them.

In closing, I also would like to say that I too think Microsoft's software is topnotch. I feel that it's overpriced also.

well I don't know about you DH,but I have NEVER paid for any patches or bug fixes from MS>

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:25 pm

Originally posted by Psalmist

I need a tissue, Dan oh boo hoo hoo.... hold me....

My AmigaDOS was blown out of the water when Wintel published win3.0.... without paying royalties to Xerox, like Apple had. The games I play.... The video software I use all needs windows.

I am buying a mac for the office.....

david

well good then,,,do it ....

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:27 pm

Originally posted by Psalmist

I need a tissue, Dan oh boo hoo hoo.... hold me....

david

come here sweetheart,,I'll be your huckleberry.....lol

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:30 pm

Originally posted by downhill
I can see paying out the nose when Win95 first came out. What I cant' see is paying out the nose for bug fixes for the next two 9x's. That's pure BS. I get software upgrades for free from several software companys I've bought software from.

Even at that, I'd pay a resonable price for an OS upgrade. Resonable is the key word here.

Still if anyone is suggesting that Microsoft is NOT a monoply, think about it. Sure you can use something else, but we arn't talking about home use here. We're talking shcools, government offices, big companys that need some sort of similarity from one office to the next.

About Judge Jackson, yeah he was a bit heavy handed. I'd also like to say that the monoply suite probalby wouldn't have gone as far as it did if Microsoft hadn't insisted on lying to a federal judger that was already unsympathatic to them. Still it dosn't matter. The new regime will probably go soft on them.

In closing, I also would like to say that I too think Microsoft's software is topnotch. I feel that it's overpriced also.

so I assume that you say all that on your Linux OS,since you feel so strongly about MS?

ncswimmer · Post by **ncswimmer** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:31 pm

They (gas companies) don't have a monopoly. You can go to Shell, Texaco, BP, Phillips, Exxon, Mobil, Citgo, and probably a couple other big ones I can't think of, plus local stations. If one's prices are too high, just go to the next corner, where there's another station with a different price.

With software, the vast majority of it is made by MS. If you want to be able to send documents around, and be compatible with other computers, you almost have to use MS stuff. MS won't share any of its proprietary information with people, so that you could have compatible software with different functions, abilities, etc.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:33 pm

Originally posted by crazyman

well I don't know about you DH,but I have NEVER paid for any patches or bug fixes from MS>

Oh please don't tell me that 98 and ME are complete different operating systems?

I'm not buying it. They are bug fixes.....unless you mean that you never upgraded? If you did, then are you using a Warez version? Not that it's my business.

I'm entitled to my opinion.....and you to yours..........I disagree with the assumption that Microsoft isn't a monoply. Simple eh?

Still, Microsoft built it's own bed. It can sleep in it.

Oh I'm not talking about Bill Gates. I thought the subject was Microsoft..

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:33 pm

Crazyman, you are nuts.

1.) Microshaft owns the OS market. 85% of the computer users today use Windoze.

2.) The average IQ of the computer users is down since 95 came out. Go on- ask a normal user what a subdirectory is. I got some really stupid anwsers, but you will find out soon enough.

3.) Gates never created a thing. It was all stolen ideas. DR-DOS = MS-DOS. the GUI was taken from Apple, and the DLL structure (hah) was taken from UNIX shared memory.

4.) The only reason you are Pro-MS is because they have enough power to kill off companies that dont support them, which means that only MS-supporting products hit the market.

5.) Know about .net? If you dont, start reading. .net is Microshafts way of controlling everything you do. Think- they have the software on their servers, and you have to D/L it EVERY TIME you want to use it, for a fee, and you HAVE to upgrade- Microshaft controls that.

Want more? Dragonlord@Zeddweb.com- a happy and proud Linux user!

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:36 pm

Originally posted by Paft
Crazyman, you are nuts.

1.) Microshaft owns the OS market. 85% of the computer users today use Windoze.

2.) The average IQ of the computer users is down since 95 came out. Go on- ask a normal user what a subdirectory is. I got some really stupid anwsers, but you will find out soon enough.

3.) Gates never created a thing. It was all stolen ideas. DR-DOS = MS-DOS. the GUI was taken from Apple, and the DLL structure (hah) was taken from UNIX shared memory.

4.) The only reason you are Pro-MS is because they have enough power to kill off companies that dont support them, which means that only MS-supporting products hit the market.

5.) Know about .net? If you dont, start reading. .net is Microshafts way of controlling everything you do. Think- they have the software on their servers, and you have to D/L it EVERY TIME you want to use it, for a fee, and you HAVE to upgrade- Microshaft controls that.

Want more? Dragonlord@Zeddweb.com- a happy and proud Linux user!

ha ha ha ,,,and your point is?

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:37 pm

Originally posted by crazyman
I am so sick of people crying about MS products while most of the apps they are using are MS products,,what the heck is really the problem?

is it that Bill Gates was successful?
is it that he is rich and you are'nt?

god dang,,relax about it,

or get tough and really use an alternative product!

the problem is the price and turnout and the other OSes dont have full sopport or the compatibility thats needed and that MS wants to control teh PC that we use.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:39 pm

Originally posted by crazyman

so I assume that you say all that on your Linux OS,since you feel so strongly about MS?

Gimme a break, crazyman......reread my first post......didn't I say that Microsoft made quality software? I'll not flame...........I'll discuss the issue with you or anyone else......

I'll not whine about your personal attack here.....still.............

I believe that Microsoft , because of it's market clout, conspired to drive a ton of different companys out of business. What does that make them? Funny thing is, that statement has already proven to be true. I'm not flaming you or anyone else that has a difference of opinion, but if you put a thread up in a public forum, expect that not everyone will agree with you. *shurg*

ncswimmer · Post by **ncswimmer** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:39 pm

.net = not escapable tax?

That's probably what it is, since you won't be able to just use a legacy version of software. You'll either have to buy progs a la carte as you need to use them, or subscribe for a week/month/year. Either way, I'd rather just pay for something once and be able to use it whenever I want, for as long as I want.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:42 pm

Originally posted by crazyman

ha ha ha ,,,and your point is?

My point is that you only support them because you are too lazy (and probally unable) to use a better OS that isn really supported. Also, you don want to lose your precious software when you can get Windoze emulatiors online that WONT crash ever 15 minutes!!!

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:54 pm

Originally posted by downhill

Gimme a break, crazyman......reread my first post......didn't I say that Microsoft made quality software? I'll not flame...........I'll discuss the issue with you or anyone else......

I'll not whine about your personal attack here.....still.............

I believe that Microsoft , because of it's market clout, conspired to drive a ton of different companys out of business. What does that make them? Funny thing is, that statement has already proven to be true. I'm not flaming you or anyone else that has a difference of opinion, but if you put a thread up in a public forum, expect that not everyone will agree with you. *shurg*

what personal attack?

crazyman · Post by **crazyman** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 10:02 pm

Originally posted by Paft

My point is that you only support them because you are too lazy (and probally unable) to use a better OS that isn really supported. Also, you don want to lose your precious software when you can get Windoze emulatiors online that WONT crash ever 15 minutes!!!

ok insults going,I am not too lazy,I am not unable,

I just like MS products and I like the letter I posted,

and I have been informed that I am wrong and that I need to stop this now,so I will.

you take care and have a nice evening.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 10:07 pm

Originally posted by crazyman

ok insults going,I am not too lazy,I am not unable,

I just like MS products and I like the letter I posted,

and I have been informed that I am wrong and that I need to stop this now,so I will.

you take care and have a nice evening.

Ugh, ran my mouth off again. Sorry

That aside, Have a nice day yourself.

Cornbread · Post by **Cornbread** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 10:34 pm

Originally posted by crazyman
I am so sick of people crying about MS products while most of the apps they are using are MS products,,what the heck is really the problem?

is it that Bill Gates was successful?
is it that he is rich and you are'nt?

god dang,,relax about it,

or get tough and really use an alternative product!

bill gates stole the idea, but that's no biggie to me. i will not get in this little battle. as for most of the apps being ms, yes that's true, but do we have a choice, no not really. sure we have linux, but ms has used their money to keep them out of the picture.

maybe if we are lucky we will be able to purchase just one vehicle. let "ford" be the only vehicle that we can buy. make coke the only soda we can buy.....

ms is crap, sure i use them right now, but i'm sure in the future things will be different.