UOD wrote:Iraqi Security were trained by us. They didn't beat him down.....they attempted to restrain him and he resisted which elevated the use of force. The outcome is that he sustained injuries.
I've been in my share of fights before and I find it hard to believe that Iraqi security didn't get a real shot in that wasn't a result of his resisting. Broken ribs should not be happening simply by being restrained. Or at least I can't think of how it could be.
When we as Americans say beatdown and deserve in the same sentence, it's viewed as being inflammatory.
As it is when Iraqi's throw shoes at our President. The President's actions have been deplorable, but I would be lying if I said I didn't want to smack that guy around myself for going after the President.
Roody wrote:I've been in my share of fights before and I find it hard to believe that Iraqi security didn't get a real shot in that wasn't a result of his resisting. Broken ribs should not be happening simply by being restrained. Or at least I can't think of how it could be.
As it is when Iraqi's throw shoes at our President. The President's actions have been deplorable, but I would be lying if I said I didn't want to smack that guy around myself for going after the President.
going to restrain someone on the ground usually involves a knee. if he was on his side or back and one of them came down with force with his knee as to restrain him then it easily could have broken ribs.
Gixxer wrote:going to restrain someone on the ground usually involves a knee. if he was on his side or back and one of them came down with force with his knee as to restrain him then it easily could have broken ribs.
Think wrote:
An entire region raising there children to hate Americans...that's truly horrifying.
That's wholly inaccurate.
The entire region doesn't hate America or Americans. They hate American corporate policy. They hate American hypocrisy. they absolutely despise our support for Israel but only because we don't allow for equality in the struggle. If Israel has nukes, then why can't everyone else? It's a legitimate gripe. Our gripe is that they can't control their religious militancy. I have Iraqi civilians that work directly for me because of their ability to speak Farsi. I can't and won't go any further into it than that. But at least I get to hear unfiltered opinions.
The entire region doesn't hate America or Americans. They hate American corporate policy. They hate American hypocrisy. they absolutely despise our support for Israel but only because we don't allow for equality in the struggle. If Israel has nukes, then why can't everyone else? It's a legitimate gripe. Our gripe is that they can't control their religious militancy. I have Iraqi civilians that work directly for me because of their ability to speak Farsi. I can't and won't go any further into it than that. But at least I get to hear unfiltered opinions.
Ah...yeah...ok, I think they hate Americans because they don't believe in gay marriage.
UOD wrote:Do you have any actual experience with Iraqi civilians, or with any Middle Easterners of any kind that would lend credibility to your position?
I have lived with the people from many regions in more than intimate settings/environments and I've done it spanning 20 years.
Yes I have UOD. There is a clear conflict on what and why they supported this war initially and what and why many no longer do. So what's your point? They believe in gay marriage?
Think wrote:Yes I have UOD. There is a clear conflict on what and why they supported this war initially and what and why many no longer do. So what's your point? They believe in gay marriage?
What does gay marriage in the United States have to do with your previous statement about the "entire" region raising their children to hate Americans? Our apathy gives rise to the policies and hypocrisy which they hate. Gay marriage doesn't even register on their radar. Gay marriage doesn't really register on the majority of American's radars either. the only people affected by gay marriage are the evangelicals/religious right which just so happen to have been diminished by their own President....remember, Bush says that the Bible can't be taken literally.
[YOUTUBE]9FlqXIe9w4U[/YOUTUBE]
I see religion as the death of our world. The inability for tolerance lends itself to human rights abuses which are considered to be divine.
the point was this: you make absurd generalized statements.
Roody wrote: Broken ribs should not be happening simply by being restrained. Or at least I can't think of how it could be.
I can picture broken ribs, wrists, and other injuries happening easily in this scenario, from the mass tackling of him that should have occurred by numerous security personnel. Half a dozen or more security bodies doing a flying tackle...the pile of bodies all crashing downwards on top of rows of folding chairs that all the journalists were sitting in.
Granted in the video shown, the security wasn't quick in response..basically only saw 1x guy get up close to the President...which Bush waved off. But the video doesn't show much of the restraining (at least not the clip I saw)
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I was listening to the news yesterday and the SS is taking some heat for this. Adding insult to injury Dana Perino got hurt in the process. She was sporting a nice little shiner.
Roody wrote:I was listening to the news yesterday and the SS is taking some heat for this. Adding insult to injury Dana Perino got hurt in the process. She was sporting a nice little shiner.
they should taking some heat.. the guy should have never gotten his shoe off.... If this is the security they are offering I feel sorry for Obama.
UOD wrote:What does gay marriage in the United States have to do with your previous statement about the "entire" region raising their children to hate Americans? Our apathy gives rise to the policies and hypocrisy which they hate. Gay marriage doesn't even register on their radar. Gay marriage doesn't really register on the majority of American's radars either. the only people affected by gay marriage are the evangelicals/religious right which just so happen to have been diminished by their own President....remember, Bush says that the Bible can't be taken literally.
[youtube]9FlqXIe9w4U[/youtube]
I see religion as the death of our world. The inability for tolerance lends itself to human rights abuses which are considered to be divine.
the point was this: you make absurd generalized statements.
Still don't understand what this has to do with your stance on gay marriage. Are you gay?
Obviously you have severe issues with religion and are somewhat of a heterophobe at that. A very dangerous combination.
Think wrote:Still don't understand what this has to do with your stance on gay marriage. Are you gay?
Obviously you have severe issues with religion and are somewhat of a heterophobe at that. A very dangerous combination.
Nope, not gay. I believe in freedom. I don't have severe issues with religion although it appears that you do. It's funny how every time I reply, you have no content to counter me with so you diminish the conversation to personal attacks and name calling. You religious guys are hell bent on exterminating each other. Christians think that their side is right while Muslims believe that your Crusading heads should be chopped off in order to receive Allah.
Yes, I believe in God but please don't point your finger at me as being the cause of your issues of intolerance. Since I take part in no religion....how can I be attributed as being part of ANY problem?
And again I ask, what does this have to do with shoes being thrown at the President or you making generalized and uneducated statements about "entire" regions hating us for whatever reasons?
...are you sure? .. I mean, you can be honest. The closet is a terrible place to be. opcorn:
And again I ask, what does this have to do with shoes being thrown at the President or you making generalized and uneducated statements about "entire" regions hating us for whatever reasons?[/quote]
Think wrote:...are you sure? .. I mean, you can be honest. The closet is a terrible place to be. opcorn:
And again I ask, what does this have to do with shoes being thrown at the President or you making generalized and uneducated statements about "entire" regions hating us for whatever reasons?
UOD, if the shoe fits then throw it. [/QUOTE]
So you suggest that the ENTIRE Middle Eastern region and all of it's inhabitants hate America because of certain states posture on gay marriage?
You really are borked up on this whole gay marriage thing aren't you? I mean, to enter it into this particular discussion.....and you call me crazy?
What's so crazy about ANY position that I've discussed here?
Why don't we go back to this statement made by yourself:
An entire region raising there children to hate Americans...that's truly horrifying.
So where is the brilliance in this generalized and hateful comment?
I think it's time that you provide credible evidence that supports your statement. What is your compulsion to make such remarks? And why do you get so defensive when you are challenged in your thought processes?
JBrazen wrote:HAHAHA! WOW, the Pres. has reflexes like a cat! Nice moves.
I hope they waterboard that moron.
Burke wrote:You seriously are advocating he be tortured for being pissed off and expressing it through a cultural insult?
JBrazen wrote:I don't consider waterboarding to be torture.
YARDofSTUF wrote:Thats right! It should be an Olympic event!
Burke wrote:All right, then.
He should be made to lie on an incline, water poured on his face and made to believe he is drowning for expressing his anger using a cultural sign of disgust?
mountainman wrote:But isn't waterboarding how we show a cultural sign of disgust? What's the difference?
UOD wrote:The entire region doesn't hate America or Americans. They hate American corporate policy. They hate American hypocrisy. they absolutely despise our support for Israel but only because we don't allow for equality in the struggle. If Israel has nukes, then why can't everyone else? It's a legitimate gripe. Our gripe is that they can't control their religious militancy.
Well said. There is a lot of hypocrisy in the world today.
Stupidity is also a gift of God, but one mustn't misuse it. - JP II
What does it have to do with shoes being thrown at the President? If the answer is nothing, then why perpetuate part of the discussion that should not have ever been entered?
What is your position on waterboarding and how do you see it fitting into a discussion about the news story?
What does it have to do with shoes being thrown at the President? If the answer is nothing, then why perpetuate part of the discussion that should not have ever been entered?
What is your position on waterboarding and how do you see it fitting into a discussion about the news story?
nothing to do with shoes. it entered the discussion from others so i thought i would give a link for those people.
as far as my stance on torture/WB, i say do whatever it takes to save lives.
the lives of many outweigh the lives of the one or few.
Gixxer wrote:nothing to do with shoes. it entered the discussion from others so i thought i would give a link for those people.
as far as my stance on torture/WB, i say do whatever it takes to save lives.
the lives of many outweigh the lives of the one or few.
Waterboarding gets more people killed because it's a recruitment bullet in terrorist propaganda.
We don't use waterboarding anymore. We give them milk and cookies and in return they spill the real beans. The most successful interrogators use trust as the means to discovery.
In any case, JBrazen made an off topic comment that should not have been entertained because it bears no relevance to the topic.
that's part of the problem on SG is that the peripheral comments drag the conversation down to 3rd grade displays of hysterics.
UOD wrote:Waterboarding gets more people killed because it's a recruitment bullet in terrorist propaganda.
We don't use waterboarding anymore. We give them milk and cookies and in return they spill the real beans. The most successful interrogators use trust as the means to discovery.
In any case, JBrazen made an off topic comment that should not have been entertained because it bears no relevance to the topic.
that's part of the problem on SG is that the peripheral comments drag the conversation down to 3rd grade displays of hysterics.
That's not just a SG problem. That's pretty much a forum board issue as a whole. Seen it in pretty much every forum board I have been to. People take threads off-topic all the time.
UOD wrote:Waterboarding gets more people killed because it's a recruitment bullet in terrorist propaganda.
We don't use waterboarding anymore. We give them milk and cookies and in return they spill the real beans. The most successful interrogators use trust as the means to discovery.
In any case, JBrazen made an off topic comment that should not have been entertained because it bears no relevance to the topic.
that's part of the problem on SG is that the peripheral comments drag the conversation down to 3rd grade displays of hysterics.
you know you always ask for info to back statements. you have a link for this?
I'm going to share the same thing here I am sharing with a few people in PM's. Let's keep it civil people. There is no need for such broad generalizations.
Saudi are extremely anti-American but are very eloquent when they need to be - that's business. The rest of the flag burners can kiss my Canadian ass.
In general....
Can we please avoid ad hominem affronts?!
Generalizations can be effect, but not wholly accurate.
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
UOD wrote:Waterboarding gets more people killed because it's a recruitment bullet in terrorist propaganda.
We don't use waterboarding anymore. We give them milk and cookies and in return they spill the real beans. The most successful interrogators use trust as the means to discovery.
Quite true. Take a look at NPR.org for a relatively recent show on said topic.
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
just because it worked for one does not mean it will work for another.
It works for all. We teach these techniques at our gators course....and being that we are the lead DOD wise...I'll maintain faith in our curriculum.
You can't torture a robot. It might make us feel good but robots are programmed. Al Qaeda bots are very well disciplined. What we do is make them human again...and once that happens, they cry like babies. The mental torture which they impose upon themselves is one of the reasons why they ask to be put to death.
. 
