Big 3 Automotive Bail out..

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:28 am

Main reason why we should let them go bankrupt and fail:

[INDENT]One of the best reasons why Detroit automakers should not receive a bailout can be found in a General Motors "Jobs Bank" program that, bizarrely, pays employees not to work.
[/INDENT]

Who in the hell keeps paying people 40+$/hr to people that DO NOT work while losing money every day?!??!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/ ... econdStory

I say let them fail..let them go Bankrupt... nobody is going to be buying vehicles as much as they used to no matter how much gas drops. Its time for the Big 3 to become the Big 1 and start making more fuel economy based vehicles now not 10years from now. Its time for the Unions to die off too.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:32 am

Unions are fine, the UAW though needs a change.

Letting GM fail means a massive amount of jobs are lost. A bailout and restructuring of GM would be very beneficial to all.

GM and Ford have been bringing more feul efficent cars to the showrooms. Laws and safety/environmental regulations also help slow this proces down and should be reworked as well to be more efficient.

All your monopoly ideas are foolish.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:37 am

Letting the big 3 fail is a terrible idea. Undoubtedly some harsh changes need to occur, but their failure would seriously disable an already weak economy.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:38 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:Unions are fine, the UAW though needs a change.

Letting GM fail means a massive amount of jobs are lost. A bailout and restructuring of GM would be very beneficial to all.

GM and Ford have been bringing more feul efficent cars to the showrooms. Laws and safety/environmental regulations also help slow this proces down and should be reworked as well to be more efficient.

All your monopoly ideas are foolish.

Foolish? naw even this guy see's the light of letting them fail. A company should fail if you continue to pay Union's massive amounts of money while losing money every day. Its stupid to even continue with unions in todays business.

A single company could sustain and weather the future cause like it will get worse before it gets better.

Again, to pay someone for not working is crazy.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:42 am

Sava700 wrote:
Again, to pay someone for not working is crazy.

No one disputes that idea. You fix the flaws and move forward. Letting them fail though is economic suicide.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:54 am

Roody wrote:No one disputes that idea. You fix the flaws and move forward. Letting them fail though is economic suicide.

Well you wouldn't really let them fail... go bankrupt to restructure.. that would give a judge the permission to make contracts void with unions to get away from them and once again make money.

I don't believe we need to bail them out..let them go bankrupt and then a judge can step in and get the ball rolling.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:58 am

Sava700 wrote:Foolish? naw even this guy see's the light of letting them fail. A company should fail if you continue to pay Union's massive amounts of money while losing money every day. Its stupid to even continue with unions in todays business.

A single company could sustain and weather the future cause like it will get worse before it gets better.

Again, to pay someone for not working is crazy.

All 3 are facing troubles, it costs money to close plants, 1 single company would fail 3 times as fast.

A bail out with set conditions and compromises on the UAW's part where they pay back the money used to bail them out plus interest would be best.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:58 am

Sava700 wrote:Well you wouldn't really let them fail... go bankrupt to restructure.. that would give a judge the permission to make contracts void with unions to get away from them and once again make money.

I don't believe we need to bail them out..let them go bankrupt and then a judge can step in and get the ball rolling.

..and in the meantime people get laid off and the economy suffers even more. Not a good idea IMO.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:59 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:All 3 are facing troubles, it costs money to close plants,

really?? Sure it costs money to close plants but the long term benefit out weights that and I can tell you for a FACT cause it happened to me in which that is the truth. Letting GM or the others go bankrupt is the better decision right now..this would again allow them to escape the over priced contracts the unions have in place over the automakers heads.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:02 am

Roody wrote:..and in the meantime people get laid off and the economy suffers even more. Not a good idea IMO.

People are getting laid off now... more may get laid off either way but I don't believe I should be spending tax payer money in this situation. Last thing I want to see is that money being paid out to those that get paid while not working. Or a company that kept on pumping out gas sucking vehicles for profits all these years when it was their own fault for doing so. They should have been focusing more than they did on better fuel economy vehicles..but instead greed kicked in and thats all you see here by this request for a Govt bailout.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:08 am

Oh boy, talk about the snowball affect. Now Verizon and others say they need money and many others. I am all for keeping jobs in tact, but I am also for severe punishment for ANYONE making a profit from all this "bailing out" that is sure to keep coming. This money needs to be monitored with extreme prejudice! If I can choose the generic brand then these fat-a$$ execs can surely give up a summer home or 1 of their yachts.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:15 am

Sava700 wrote:really?? Sure it costs money to close plants but the long term benefit out weights that and I can tell you for a FACT cause it happened to me in which that is the truth. Letting GM or the others go bankrupt is the better decision right now..this would again allow them to escape the over priced contracts the unions have in place over the automakers heads.

The problem is that they would have to survive the short term. GM owes like 7 billion in retirement money, and burns something like 15 billion a year right now, Chrysler owes someone 9 billion or so, and even with gas prices down sales havent rebounded, though SUVs are doing better.

Also don't forget the automakers agreed to those contracts.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:18 am

Sava700 wrote:People are getting laid off now... more may get laid off either way but I don't believe I should be spending tax payer money in this situation. Last thing I want to see is that money being paid out to those that get paid while not working. Or a company that kept on pumping out gas sucking vehicles for profits all these years when it was their own fault for doing so. They should have been focusing more than they did on better fuel economy vehicles..but instead greed kicked in and thats all you see here by this request for a Govt bailout.

You are very closed minded.

THe money spent could be made to turn a profit.

Limitations could be made to alter teh UAW contract.

Feul efficent vehicles have been being made, and years and years ago the auto industry tried to bring alternative choices to the market and no one wanted them, just as now lots are still buying gas guzzlers, and bigger cars, because thats what they want. If people don't buy it, what purpose is there to make it?

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:19 am

YARDofSTUF wrote: Also don't forget the automakers agreed to those contracts.

you almost don't have a choice when you have threats of walkouts or strikes lol

They owe all that retirement money cause it was contracted in to keep people working while the whole time most that could make it very well off 20$/hour doing what they do instead get greedy and press for 40$/hour. Who pushes all this greed the most? = Unions.

But hey thats a whole different discussion and we both know we disagree on it so ohh well.

Rather than a bailout with tax payer money..I say Bankrupt and let a judge tell them what to do to work things out. Have the Feds pressure them into leaving these gas sucking vehicles and SUV's and go for more fuel economy vehicles and those that run more MPG.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:20 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:You are very closed minded.

no not at all... I'm looking at the future. Bankrupt companies in the past have come out very profitable after restructure. Same can happen for the auto makers.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am

Sava700 wrote:you almost don't have a choice when you have threats of walkouts or strikes lol

Yes they do have choices, they've chosen not to use any of them.

Bankruptcy Will hurt the brand names, send more buyers to toyota, honda, and huyundai/kia.

And since you keep beating a dead horse I will too. They are making fuel efficient cars. Every car maker knows that they need to be able to advertise that.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:41 am

Sava700 wrote:no not at all... I'm looking at the future. Bankrupt companies in the past have come out very profitable after restructure. Same can happen for the auto makers.

Its also been the end for a great deal of companies.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:33 pm

yep..bankrupt is the way to go..not a bailout by the Govt.

Need to focus on more fuel economic vehicles than what we have been.. 30MPG average isn't acceptable when we can drive a car on water already.

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:45 pm

I agree with sava no bailout. some other investors will pu the company cheap and hire the employees back at a more economical wage rate. let rich investors bail out @ 10 Cent on the dollar rather than the tax payers pay for a company thats been raping consumers for years

AIG was in the news after receiving their bailout they spent 350,000 on a convention where most of the pigs were in the pool. spending money like fools

the number one problem with the economy is americans in the general population dont want to get off their asses and be productive

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:55 pm

Sava700 wrote:yep..bankrupt is the way to go..not a bailout by the Govt.

Need to focus on more fuel economic vehicles than what we have been.. 30MPG average isn't acceptable when we can drive a car on water already.

Poor horse.

So what MPG average is acceptable?

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:57 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Poor horse.

So what MPG average is acceptable?

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:00 pm

No answer for the mileage question?

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:05 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:No answer for the mileage question?

Ohh I don't want to beat that horse anymore cause I've already givin this answer several times in other threads.. search feature is your friend.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:09 pm

Sava700 wrote:Ohh I don't want to beat that horse anymore cause I've already givin this answer several times in other threads.. search feature is your friend.

Yes but you were horribly wrong and ignorant so I was hoping you came up with something realistic this time.

A good read taken from another forum:

http://www.autoextremist.com/current/

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:18 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Yes but you were horribly wrong and ignorant so I was hoping you came up with something realistic this time.

LMAO, ok so now we are insulting now? I'm not wrong at all either, We need better MPG requirements vs what we have now. There is no reason at all why we shouldn't force it upon them..if we give them some sort of bailout then it should be a requirement before getting even 1$.

The ones that are wrong are the automakers...but I don't call them ignorant cause that would be insulting.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:24 pm

Sava700 wrote:LMAO, ok so now we are insulting now? I'm not wrong at all either, We need better MPG requirements vs what we have now. There is no reason at all why we shouldn't force it upon them..if we give them some sort of bailout then it should be a requirement before getting even 1$.

The ones that are wrong are the automakers...but I don't call them ignorant cause that would be insulting.

Its not an insult its the truth, you said u watched a truck get built and that after seeing that you magically realized trucks should be getting 35 MPG.

Our government has things in place that limit them in that goal, as well as goals for them already set. Automakers want money, they'll build whatever the consumer wants so they make that money. Safety and emissions restrictions add weight, cars get heavier and need more muscle to power them, we need our government to stop this trend and if we were smart, to work with the UK and get a single standard or certification to ease pointless costs and conversions.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:47 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Its not an insult its the truth, you said u watched a truck get built and that after seeing that you magically realized trucks should be getting 35 MPG.

yeah and I've seen what goes into them..I've seen the changes your able to make to get better MPG. But whatever you think man..your always right.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:50 pm

Sava700 wrote:yeah and I've seen what goes into them..I've seen the changes your able to make to get better MPG. But whatever you think man..your always right.

No, thats were you run into a problem, you think someone is right and others are wrong. We need to work to make a correct solution because as it stands everything is wrong for the auto industry.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:52 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:No, thats were you run into a problem, you think someone is right and others are wrong. We need to work to make a correct solution because as it stands everything is wrong for the auto industry.

nope..no problem that I can see.. the ability is there but they are not being pushed properly to do it. Perhaps if they get the promise of money from a bailout and a stipulation to increase MPG much faster than they currently are then we might have a solution.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:54 pm

Sava700 wrote:nope..no problem that I can see.. the ability is there but they are not being pushed properly to do it. Perhaps if they get the promise of money from a bailout and a stipulation to increase MPG much faster than they currently are then we might have a solution.

Read some of the information in thread and you'll find the problems.

With the auto industry failing it really does take ignorance to say that there is no problem.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:56 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Read some of the information in thread and you'll find the problems.

With the auto industry failing it really does take ignorance to say that there is no problem.

I never said there wasn't a problem.. they have a major problem and thats not increasing MPG over what they already have by now. We can make a car run on water but can't get 50MPG average out of a car yet.

Let em go Bankrupt!!

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:58 pm

Sava700 wrote:I never said there wasn't a problem.. they have a major problem and thats not increasing MPG over what they already have by now. We can make a car run on water but can't get 50MPG average out of a car yet.

Let em go Bankrupt!!

Yes you did.

Sava700 wrote:nope..no problem that I can see..

Like I said, there are problems with making more efficent cars, many problems. In the real world you can't just wave your hand and make the impossible real, or type in some leet cheat code.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:01 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Yes you did.

That comment that you quoted wastefully several times was towards you cause I felt you were pointing at me being a problem along with insulting me as being ignorant....keep going though cause your digging that hole deeper and deeper.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:05 pm

Sava700 wrote:That comment that you quoted wastefully several times was towards you cause I felt you were pointing at me being a problem along with insulting me as being ignorant....keep going though cause your digging that hole deeper and deeper.

To my knowledge you work IT at a college. Based on that I would say you aren't a part of the auto industry's problem. To say the the issues mentioned in this thread are not a problem, is ignorant. It has nothing to do with insulting you.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:06 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:To my knowledge you work IT at a college. Based on that I would say you aren't a part of the auto industry's problem. To say the the issues mentioned in this thread are not a problem, is ignorant. It has nothing to do with insulting you.

See thats where your wrong in assuming I don't know anything about the Auto Industry.. I worked for a major automotive supplier for 10years and went on several trips to Ford and GM Factories and talked to hundreds of people in the field.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:19 pm

Sava700 wrote:See thats where your wrong in assuming I don't know anything about the Auto Industry..

I never said that.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:50 am

Why cars don't get 50MPG

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:56 am

Yeah, though the Volt will be rated around 100MPG, its kinda misleading.

David · Post by **David** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:15 pm

Philip is seeking a way to make Speedguide into a bank.....

David · Post by **David** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:20 pm

BTW... Most of those I talk with in auto sales say it is the lack of available credit that is putting a dent in their bottom line. You need perfect credit to even think of making payments.