Video: Obama argues his tax plan with a small plumbing business owner in Ohio

[downhill]

Most of you are missing the point and of course so is Joe and Obama. The original quiestion was how much his business was making and what his taxes would be on that business.

No way would Joe's salary be anywhere close to 250 thousand. Obama's talking about his salary and not the income of the business.

[jjrs]

Most of you are missing the point and of course so is Joe and Obama. The original quiestion was how much his business was making and what his taxes would be on that business.

No way would Joe's salary be anywhere close to 250 thousand. Obama's talking about his salary and not the income of the business.

Well, yeah.

Joe is on the CBSnews webcast and he still does not like Obama. He says "Obama tap-danced around my question better than Sammy Davis Jr"

Meanwhile the polls show uncommitted voters broke for O 2-1 tonight. Even the FOX News/Luntz focus group. And apparently Ohio uncommited voters on CNN "hated" Joe

[downhill]

I thought Obama was straight up on what he was telling ol Joe. The problem was a misunderstanding on the original question.

As to that 250 k deal. I'd like to be in that position.

[jjrs]

As to that 250 k deal. I'd like to be in that position.

Yeah, sucks to earn over 250,000 dollars and get taxed 3% more on the spillover doesn't it? The problems I'd like to have...

[Prey521]

Joe "The Plumber" will be receiving a nice check in the mail for his obviously voluntary little discussion there with Obama.

[YeOldeStonecat]

Most of you are missing the point and of course so is Joe and Obama. The original quiestion was how much his business was making and what his taxes would be on that business.

No way would Joe's salary be anywhere close to 250 thousand. Obama's talking about his salary and not the income of the business.

True.....the original question was that. I can't see how Obama mis-understood that. I'm still not sure he did. I replayed it several times...

Joe Plant actor: "I'm getting ready to buy a company, that makes about 250, about 270, 280 dollars a year."

After his distraction about the tax cut to try to make it more palatable,
Obama: "If your revenue is above 250....95% of small businesses make less than"

Before he shifts to "most folks make less than 250k"

Now...Obama stating "If your revenue is above 250..." to me...shows that Obama is talking about the business income. Because he uses the word "revenue".

Revenue is more commonly used for what a business takes in. Income is more commonly used for what people take home.

[jjrs]

True.....the original question was that. I can't see how Obama mis-understood that. I'm still not sure he did. I replayed it several times...

Joe Plant actor: "I'm getting ready to buy a company, that makes about 250, about 270, 280 dollars a year."

After his distraction about the tax cut to try to make it more palatable,
Obama: "If your revenue is above 250....95% of small businesses make less than"

Before he shifts to "most folks make less than 250k"

Now...Obama stating "If your revenue is above 250..." to me...shows that Obama is talking about the business income. Because he uses the word "revenue".

Revenue is more commonly used for what a business takes in. Income is more commonly used for what people take home.

in case you missed it-

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... _bunk.html

[Sava700]

That had that plumber on the morning show today and he still said he doesn't like Obama's plan since it will still punish him for making more money when working harder to get ahead.

He's keeping it simple and Obama wants to complicate things in the video...or so he wants it that way.

Simple worker/voter getting snuffed if you asked me.

Here is the video from this morning interview of the plumber.. very interesting and from a home town voter.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politi ... .reax.wtol

[downhill]

Sava....watch that video again. I think that Obama got confused about what Joe was going to make is all.

After all, Joe was confused too when he brought it all up.

Now I know you are just going to come back with some silly argument but in the end, Joe is going to get the same tax cut you are going to get under either Obama or McCain and not one that any of us deserve.

To put him on any TV shows and not point that out to him is disingenuous of any of the networks.

[Izzo]

Apparently Joe isn't even registered to vote.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/ ... resubmit=1


Plumbers Union also endorses Obama.

http://www.ua.org/ua_endorses.asp

[Sava700]

Now I know you are just going to come back with some silly argument but in the end,

What? Whatever man... apparently you get away with insults and thread jacking left and right.

[downhill]

Maybe you just take it that way, Sava.

That wasn't an insult nor was it meant to be. It was an observation and imho, a correct one.

*shurg*

Back to Joe the plumber.

[Sava700]

Maybe you just take it that way, Sava.

That wasn't an insult nor was it meant to be. It was an observation and imho, a correct one.

*shurg*

Back to Joe the plumber.

Your NOBODY to judge me... your observations are blurred by your political agenda to discredit anyone and anything that doesn't fit your opinion and that sir is a fact.

So please spare me from your observations and opinions in the future would ya and I'll do the same.

[downhill]

Sava...it's a forum. You don't want responded to? The only way that won't happen is if you don't post.

You seem to think that I hound you. LOL That's not a bit true. I do respond to your post but mostly because they are easy to responded to.

You, sir, do not seem to actually be able to discern the difference or to see that you aren't the only one I respond to.

Now......of course I respond to those who might post things I don't agree with. In fact, you do the same as well as pretty much every one here. A forum would be pretty boring if say you put something up and I posted.....l

I agree!

Then Yardy could quote you with an "I agree!"

Followed by Gixxer with an "I agree!"

Followed by Roody with an "I agree!"

Followed by Burke with an "I agree!"

Followed by David with an "I agree!"

Followed by YeOld with an "I agree!"

Followed by Randy with an "I agree!"

Followed by brembo with an "I agree!"

Followed by JC with a "Well Said!"

[Sava700]

Sava...it's a forum. blah blah blah

Yeah whatever..but you don't see me going around calling any of your posts,comments or arguments "Silly". Your pretty much doing that cause you think your better than me or anyone else.

My opinions are not silly... they are mine and I'll give them regardless if you like them or not but there isn't a need to go around doing as you've done.

[YARDofSTUF]

I agree!

[YARDofSTUF]

I agree!

I knew it!

[YARDofSTUF]

I agree!

Woa you too!?

[David]

Yeah, sucks to earn over 250,000 dollars and get taxed 3% more on the spillover doesn't it? The problems I'd like to have...

As though AMT was not enough. 250K per year is not the same in all parts of these United States.

[Ken]

You know what I find interesting... If a democrat makes a mistake in speaking, it is OK, just a slip up, we all do it... However, if a Republican does it, there are 5 threads about how stupid he is... Does that imply double standards? Just curious...

Obama clearly either made a mistake, or is confused and doesn't know the difference in the terms, or is pulling a smoke screen, you choose what you want to believe.

As I have been saying, both Rep & Demo are lying and deceiving politicians... They have a monopoly of sorts on politics.
Have you noticed how no independent of any sort is allowed to debate with them? Ever think it was that way for a reason? That both parties want it that way.... If so, why?
The independents that do run, do they make a serious effort at running or are they perhaps on the payroll of a party that merely wants to split the votes of the other party? This has been proven to be effective in the past...


Politics is a very serious, high stakes game. Each word of each appearance and speech is written by pros and rehearsed until it can be delivered with the proper facial expressions, voice tone, etc... Each speak given requires ~50 people to prep the speaker. Make up artist, voice coaches, body language coaches, expression coaches, language experts, speaking experts, speech writing experts, etc... They are groomed their whole life to be basically nothing more than a speaker, and when I say speaker, I am referring to the same type of device that delivers music from your stereo, the exact same function...

Kold, to answer your question, the only real way that I see is for the people to realize that the 2 self appointed, er... evolved major parties are not for the real best interest of the people, and the people ban together, on all levels and start putting independents in every possible office until the 2 major parties realize they are both going to fail if they don't revise their plans and stategies...
It is amazing that even after deception is revealed, the catastopic end result known from the start, people will still believe and defend it...

It really is sad that we have a country of >300,000,000 and we only have 2 party puppets to choose from, that combined together couldn't survive 1 week in the daily life of the average person...

[YARDofSTUF]

You know what I find interesting... If a democrat makes a mistake in speaking, it is OK, just a slip up, we all do it... However, if a Republican does it, there are 5 threads about how stupid he is... Does that imply double standards? Just curious...

Maybe its cuz Bush and McCain hardly ever DON'T mess up

But we all show our bias on these topics in some ways.

[downhill]

You know what I find interesting... If a democrat makes a mistake in speaking, it is OK, just a slip up, we all do it... However, if a Republican does it, there are 5 threads about how stupid he is... Does that imply double standards? Just curious...

Obama clearly either made a mistake, or is confused and doesn't know the difference in the terms, or is pulling a smoke screen, you choose what you want to believe.

..

Umm....I don't think for a moment, that's how it is around here at all. Maybe it's because I've actually been reading and responding to attacks on whatever for years now and not just election cycles.

I think you're wearing your bias on your sleeve just like everyone else on the board, Ken. That would include myself at times but really I'm not one to make an issue out of someone making a mistake in speaking. Bush being the exception only because his gaffs are priceless. lol

Obama doesn't know the difference in terms? Ok......



Back to ole Joe the Plumber.

Looks like he's just one of them people who think that everyone else should pay taxes. Hense his question to Obama? He was being facetious.

He will need the money. Wurzelbacher's new notoriety has brought to light the fact that he owes nearly 1,200 in unpaid taxes.

"There is a judgment lien against him for nonpayment of income tax," Barb Losie, deputy clerk of the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas, told ABCNews.com. "The state files hundreds of liens a day. It means he owes that money."

Losie said Wurzelbacher owes $1,182 from January 2007, but no action has been taken against him outside of filing the lien.

"There is no judge pulled, there is no attorney assigned... There is a 99 percent chance he doesn't know about the lien, unless he did a credit report or was ready to pay his taxes," Losie said.

A second lien has been filed in the courhouse against Wurzelbacher for $1,261 that he apparently owest St. Charles Mercy Hospital. That lien was filed in March 2007.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/Stor ... 360&page=2


What I don't get is all this attention on his taxes. He won't make enough IF he phrased that question right. Not unless he figures that revenue is the same as personal earnings. If that's the case, he'll probably never have to worry about it as that's one business that will probably fail anyway.

[koldchillah]

Kold, to answer your question, the only real way that I see is for the people to realize that the 2 self appointed, er... evolved major parties are not for the real best interest of the people, and the people ban together, on all levels and start putting independents in every possible office until the 2 major parties realize they are both going to fail if they don't revise their plans and stategies...
It is amazing that even after deception is revealed, the catastopic end result known from the start, people will still believe and defend it...

It really is sad that we have a country of >300,000,000 and we only have 2 party puppets to choose from, that combined together couldn't survive 1 week in the daily life of the average person...

I've been a registered Independent since i've been old enough to vote and Silvia is a Green. I always vote for the lesser of two evils, and she always votes for some no-name that usually sits down at the bottom of the ballot.

I dream of a day when campaign finance reform becomes a reality and we can oust the major political parties. It will be tough, but if the republicans and democrats continue to screw up enough, it WILL happen. Hopefully within my lifetime. The only question I would have at that point is can we really trust them any more than dems/reps?

[JawZ]

You know what I find interesting... If a democrat makes a mistake in speaking, it is OK, just a slip up, we all do it... However, if a Republican does it, there are 5 threads about how stupid he is... Does that imply double standards? Just curious...

There is no left or right....no republican or democrat, no conservative or liberal.

Either you are wrong or you are right, factual or full of falsehoods....truthful or full of lies.

As soon as people realize that GOOD ideas transcend political ideologies...maybe we'll evolve...



People are too god damn caught up in who owns the good idea that it prevents us from moving forward.

Maybe this country needs a political genocide.

[Ken]

I've been a registered Independent since i've been old enough to vote and Silvia is a Green. I always vote for the lesser of two evils, and she always votes for some no-name that usually sits down at the bottom of the ballot.

I dream of a day when campaign finance reform becomes a reality and we can oust the major political parties. It will be tough, but if the republicans and democrats continue to screw up enough, it WILL happen. Hopefully within my lifetime. The only question I would have at that point is can we really trust them any more than dems/reps?

Kold,
The existing have had many years to build corrupt walls to hide behind. To expect either party to change and truly care about the people would be nothing more than a dream at best, as it has gone too far, too long. The benefits to starting to put some independents in the government is that they won't have to curtail to either existing parties demands, etc. Of course, they aren't going to get any support either, so we, the people, must vote enough of them in so they are not dependent upon the others... It is the only way any type of meaningful change is possible...

[horsemen_]

ok cnn said they did a fact cheek on the Obama small business tax plan

its like this you have to make 200k profit to pay more taxes but its only on what you make over the 200k so say you make 210k you only pay the higher tax on the 10k

[jjrs]

Obama clearly either made a mistake, or is confused and doesn't know the difference in the terms, or is pulling a smoke screen, you choose what you want to believe.

Which is it? As a reference point, Let's go with his stated, on paper policy. Here's that CNN article horsemen just mentioned.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smallbu ... tm?cnn=yes

Now, you can argue you don't believe his official policy either. But given this, its safe to say he misspoke here. Who thinks he would lie or be misleading just to make his real, stated, official policy sound (much) worse than it really is?

Generally, if politicians lie, they try to make their plans sound better, not worse.

[koldchillah]

Poor Joe.. Now that he's in the spotlight, it seems like the media is really trying to dig up all his dirt.

The burly, bald man acknowledged he doesn't have a plumber's license, but said he didn't need one because he works for someone else at a company that does residential work.

But Wurzelbacher still would need to be a licensed apprentice or journeyman to work in Toledo, and he's not, said David Golis, manager and residential building official for the Toledo Division of Building Inspection.

...

And then there was the matter of his taxes.

Wurzelbacher owes the state of Ohio $1,182.98 in personal income tax, according to Lucas County Court of Common Pleas records.

In January 2007, Ohio's Department of Taxation filed a claim on his property until he pays the debt, according to the records. The lien remains active.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gJsP ... wD93RRR3G0

[YeOldeStonecat]

Which is it? As a reference point, Let's go with his stated, on paper policy. Here's that CNN article horsemen just mentioned.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smallbu ... tm?cnn=yes

As with your fact check links...irrelevent, nobody is disputing the "personal income" points, we're talking about the income of a small business.

[jjrs]

As with your fact check links...irrelevent, nobody is disputing the "personal income" points, we're talking about the income of a small business.

the campaign counts as a small-business owner any taxpayer who files a Schedule C, E or F - the forms used to report gains and losses from business ventures and farms...

...the lion's share of taxable income comes from a small number of wealthy businesses. Out of 34.7 million filers with business income on Schedules C, E or F, 479,000 filers fall into the top two brackets, according to an analysis of projected 2009 filings by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

The other 34.3 million - or 98.6% - would be unaffected by Obama's proposed rate hike.

...[Joe]"I want to set the record straight: Currently I would not fall into Barack Obama's $250,000-plus," he said.

_

[Joint Chiefs of Staff]

Politics is a very serious, high stakes game. Each word of each appearance and speech is written by pros and rehearsed until it can be delivered with the proper facial expressions, voice tone, etc... Each speak given requires ~50 people to prep the speaker. Make up artist, voice coaches, body language coaches, expression coaches, language experts, speaking experts, speech writing experts, etc... They are groomed their whole life to be basically nothing more than a speaker, and when I say speaker, I am referring to the same type of device that delivers music from your stereo, the exact same function...

Not believing everything I see on television, I've noticed that approach on the series West Wing. It really made me wonder if the speaker seeking office or re-election is really the one being voted into an office.

[jjrs]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645/

Even if he did buy Newell Plumbing and Heating, Obama’s tax plan wouldn’t affect him. While Wurzelbacher told Obama that he would be taxed at a higher rate because the company grossed more than $250,000 a year, Ohio business records show the company’s estimated total annual revenue as only $100,000. Actual taxable income would be even less than that.

[Sava700]

Poor Joe.. Now that he's in the spotlight, it seems like the media is really trying to dig up all his dirt.



http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gJsP ... wD93RRR3G0

yeah and its a shame too... if he leans one way talking to the media the other side releases dirt to discredit him. Makes you not want to even stop any politician and say anything.

[sito]

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."


It should all be common sense.