PIV vs. TBird vs. Palimino vs. CUmine

Kagemushka · Post by **Kagemushka** » Thu Feb 01, 2001 11:33 pm

First I would like to point out that this is one of the worst times to buy a new system. It's right at the end of a generation peak and the new hardware is just beggin for a price cut (ie. P4 this week). AMD will release a new core (Palimino), Intel has a new PIII commin out, not to mention a DDR chipset for P4's. Ok enough jabberin, which do you think has the most promis?

In you answer include:
Price, Performance, Compatablility, and
Upgradeablity

loosbrew · Post by **loosbrew** » Fri Feb 02, 2001 10:12 am

upgradeability=none
price/performance=no doubt the tbird
compatability=is this even an issue still?

amd offers a great product at a very good cost. intel also offers great products but they do cost much more for almost lesser quality thoug some may and will argue. its just my opinion. i would honestly stick to an amd setup now, save what you wouldve spent on a p4 and wait for the next generation of chips. if you can get away with spending alot less and getting the same performance then nows the tie to do it, cause if you payed like 500 bux more for a p4 and end up not being able to use it in a year or upgrade in a year, its alot worse then spending 200 on a 1.2 tbird and not having to kick yourself in the arse when they come out with something totally new!

loosbrew

FunK · Post by **FunK** » Fri Feb 02, 2001 10:44 am

The AMD 760 Chipset and the Palomino are going to do to the P4 what the Athlon / T-Bird did to the PIII. Kick it's butt. Intel needs to do something drastic or they are going to end up pulling a "Sega Dreamcast" and have to devote all their resources to the less profitable, but important, WebCam market.

Can't wait to get an AMD DDR system later this year.

loosbrew · Post by **loosbrew** » Fri Feb 02, 2001 11:33 am

well, for memory hungry apps and games. ie quake3, the p4 rules! with heavy sse and sse2 enhanced apps and such the p4 is way fast! but so is the tbird with heavy 3dnow enhanced apps and games. the only problem is that sse is more widely used by software developers, or it will be so if amd starts incorporating it into thier next designs it will rule all pentiums, IMHO!

loosbrew

to dismiss the P4 as a bad chip is simply ignorant(no offense), because, no matter how overpriced it is, it stills holds its own in what its meant to do. its marketing maybe full of sh!t, but its not a horrible chip.

el bob · Post by **el bob** » Fri Feb 02, 2001 4:37 pm

I have a pentium 100 Micron that I've had since 1994. It is still one of the most stable machines I have to this day. Its gone from a workstation, to its current job as a linux server. While AMD might be more favorable to a hardware expert because of its price, Intel chips just plain out "work." I foget what thread it was, but one of the Intel supporters mentioned how his Intel chip in his server survived after the cooling kicked out while the AMD chip became a warped piece of plastic, silicon, and whatever else its made out of. I actually might be getting an AMD for my next chip, but for the average user who might be passing his computer down to others, Intel is the way to go. Its simple, its price is made up for in its efficiency/lifespan. I currently have a DELL P3-500 and couldn't ask more of it.

--.02

gmcd33 · Post by **gmcd33** » Fri Feb 02, 2001 4:45 pm

Is there a link to see how intel and amd compare? Benchmark etc?

Michfan · Post by **Michfan** » Fri Feb 02, 2001 5:04 pm

i never used to be a amd supporter..the p2 was better then the k6-2, and all of the previous processors, intel was the way to go..then all of a sudden the athlon came out..and it kicked the **** out of the p3...and now the p4 is out..and it still at 1.2 ghz can compete with a 1.5p4, and the athlon is only supposed to compete with the p3..wait till amds next chip...as of now..all test and experts agree AMD is better. There less expensive, are just as compatible, and last just as long..

JJLatka · Post by **JJLatka** » Fri Feb 02, 2001 5:42 pm

p4's are useless in my opinion
they dont operate like they should unless they have the ddr ram. they are highly dependent apon the ddr ram and in my opinion this isn t good. everyone isnt gonna be able to afford to run out and buy this new expensive ram.
yes ddr ram does make a big increase in system performance but dont u think a cpu at 1.5 should run like lightning with out it first then be able to increase the systems performace buy adding the ddr ram
the p4 without the ddr ram can barely keep up with a 1gig t bird
also, amd chips overclock alot better the the pentiums, even the cely's.
and average oc on an amd is about 150-200 mhz. not everyone thinks its ok to oc a cpu but it is a hell of alot cheaper to buy a 800mhz cpu and oc to 1gig then to buy a 1gig cpu to began with,
i dont care what cpu u have cely,pentium, amd, if your cooling system craps out and u dont find about it soon its goona ruin any chip ur using. a pentium may be able to hold out longer than a amd but it still needs to be cooled. if it didnt why would they even bother puting hsf's on them to begin with.

Michfan · Post by **Michfan** » Fri Feb 02, 2001 8:59 pm

JJLatka..p4's dont run on DDR..they run on RDRAM..aka Rambus's ram..they will soon run on ddr also, but it wont be out for a few months..

smidley · Post by **smidley** » Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:33 pm

Running away from Intel is like getting rid of free MP3's... you just can't do it!

Gaming-Module · Post by **Gaming-Module** » Sat Feb 03, 2001 7:59 pm

Ever heard the saying "No one is number one for long"

Who knows, maybe in a few monthes Cyrix will come along and kick everyones a$$ ( and then toast Intel's and AMD's buns with their processors excessive heat =0)

I personally think Intel will make a comeback. Do you actually think the grand daddy of processors is going to idly sit down and watch AMD take over the market?

Why do you think P4 is merely a transitional product? Intel knows they need something mighty powerful to survive, but at the same time they need something now that can at least compete with AMD.

Basically P4 was a time buyer for Intel, while they think up their next ( hopefully ) awesome product that will regain their reputation in the market once again.

bastille_iii · Post by **bastille_iii** » Sat Feb 03, 2001 8:13 pm

Intel knows it needs something good to stay in, but it dosnt' neccessarily mean we'll see anything good. Using console systems as an example, Nintendo is only surviving because of its long lasting rep, and i think that is basically what intel is doing. People only buy intel because its a name brand. Not saying its a bad product, just saying, the stats are out there, and amd preforms better on paper, and in the machine, then intel.

Michfan · Post by **Michfan** » Sat Feb 03, 2001 8:21 pm

running away from intel is not like getting rid of free mp3's..its a smart move, and bastille_iii is right..people are only buying it cause its a brand name...and the p4 isnt a time buyer for intel, its supposed to get them back on the right track..and it cant even beat the athlon that well if at all..the athlon competes with the p3..the new amd when it comes out will toast the p4..then what? intel "stalls again"..no, then they lose more market share..and continue to slide..until they make a breakthrough, if they can..

Gaming-Module · Post by **Gaming-Module** » Sun Feb 04, 2001 12:35 am

But you are missing the point. Everyone knows that P4 is a brief pause in the roadmap for Intel. The 1.4 and 1.5 gig P4's are just a time buyer plain and simple.

Soon P4 will be getting a die shrink and a new socket and probably a change to cache and a stronger Floating Point Unit as the one Intel is using now is weaker than AMD's because Intel is counting on everyone to optimize their programs for SSE2 instructions, which you and I know everyone will because Intel is the standard.

And we all know, given Tomshardware's Flask benchmark that the P4 outperforms the Thunderbird when a program is optimized for SSE2 instructions.

The point I am trying to make is that hardware is WAY! ahead of software right now. Hell, even your coveted DDR isn't the champ is was expected to be. Like Rambus it is only 8-15 percent faster than SDRAM because there is really nothing that gains a performance advantage from the increased bandwidth right now.

Admit it, you just can't stand Intel. Your argument is pure angst and contempt for a company plain and simple. Why people attack what they dont understand is beyond me.

And for the record please notice that I argued without making a single AMD attack.

Can you do the same Buff?

[ 02-04-2001: Message edited by: Macho-Module ]

Gaming-Module · Post by **Gaming-Module** » Sun Feb 04, 2001 6:07 pm

I'm waiting...

thetom40 · Post by **thetom40** » Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:46 pm

ahHHHHHHHHHHHH! i think you guys are missing something? the risk processor that the g4 and coming g5 run at 500 and blow away both the pentuim4 and the thunder bird by delivering many more instructions per mhz cycle the problem with the p4 is that it doesnt relay the instructions sent with each cycle or mhz any faster than the p3 this is why the risk processor is the best out there, it relays more than 10 times the instructions any other processor does in each cycle, and when the #10 operating system comes out it will rock bill gates world, i have seen this os and it is very cool much cooler than windows any edition i know this is difficult for some of you with your limited knowledge,and no pun intended i read replies in here all the time by supposedly knowledgable people who dont know anything, only what they have read and believe me it shows, but the ones who have been around computers awhile already know this, just putting my piece in, no i do not have a macintosh

[ 02-04-2001: Message edited by: thetom40 ]

[ 02-04-2001: Message edited by: thetom40 ]

Gaming-Module · Post by **Gaming-Module** » Sun Feb 04, 2001 8:31 pm

Well Tom. I hope you noticed that the whole point of my argument had nothing to do with anything technical, rather it had to do with Intel's roadmap, which this other guy says is horse$hit. Yeah, I did read the roadmap at three or four sites, but how else should I learn this knowledge, but from reading on the internet? Isn't that what these sites are for?

As for the OS 10, hasn't Steve Jobs been making promises like that for a long time now? I remember hearing Mac lovers telling me that the OS 9 would come along and knock the world on it's collective arse. Macs are good for two things, photoshop and pagemaker. Hell, I can do those on my Dell flawlessly already, so what is your point man?

thetom40 · Post by **thetom40** » Sun Feb 04, 2001 9:44 pm

i am not a mac lover, i had the oportunity to see 10 in action and trust me it is very cool and very stable, actually we have had it running for 2 months here at work and it is uncrashable, and i mean uncrashable as it is based on unix but is very similiar to windows except that it is much faster, and my point was made if you dont get it, then read it slower next time

jdblitz · Post by **jdblitz** » Mon Feb 05, 2001 1:38 pm

ok, big picture here is that all the damn hardware in the world isnt gonna make your damn UT or Q3A go faster kuz its old software. I guarantee you my 850E@1005 with the same video card as a amd 1ghz or 850 oc'd to 1ghz will perform within 5 fps of eachother. How can I make this statement? Kuz i did it smokey. Buddies amd 1ghz with geforce gts did 80fps in UT. Mine with same card did 76fps. deal with it. take the same video card and put it in a p4 1.3 and it'll do 5 more fps than the athlon 1.2. yada yada yada. when they come out with software beyond what they have now, I will go over the 1-1.2ghz barrier. till then I might build an amd 1.2 just for fun but not because its gonna be all that much faster. now in things like seti and folding, I dunno. Seems like phillips machine was outpacing mine easily when it was up but I think he said he had it running on a 750 as well as his 1.1amd That would account for the huge ground gain he did. I dunno. Phillip, mind postin what machines you are runnin again and maybe an estimate on units/hour for your 1.1 machine? my 850@1ghz was doin 1 job per 25 mins or so avg. Anyway, show me some software that will utilize 1.4 or 1.5+ and I'll say ok, great, but I dont use it.

JMO

JD

Gaming-Module · Post by **Gaming-Module** » Mon Feb 05, 2001 8:40 pm

You just underlined my point. All this hardware is overkill. Whether it's 1.2 gig TBird or 1.5 P4, the gains are minimal. And by the time these processors are useful, they will have been replaced by much faster parts, so why is everyone pissin their hard earned cash away on 1 gig+ machines??? My 800EB is gonna be around till the 2 gig processors come out, and games actually require the excessive power.

Gaming-Module · Post by **Gaming-Module** » Mon Feb 05, 2001 8:41 pm

DOH!

Almost forgot.

Macs suck!......... :P

the_mp3_refuge · Post by **the_mp3_refuge** » Mon Feb 05, 2001 11:52 pm

Originally posted by Macho-Module:
DOH!

Almost forgot.

Macs suck!......... :P

lol damn straight.

Heaven_No · Post by **Heaven_No** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 1:08 am

Originally posted by jdblitz:
ok, big picture here is that all the damn hardware in the world isnt gonna make your damn UT or Q3A go faster kuz its old software. I guarantee you my 850E@1005 with the same video card as a amd 1ghz or 850 oc'd to 1ghz will perform within 5 fps of eachother. How can I make this statement? Kuz i did it smokey. Buddies amd 1ghz with geforce gts did 80fps in UT. Mine with same card did 76fps. deal with it. take the same video card and put it in a p4 1.3 and it'll do 5 more fps than the athlon 1.2. yada yada yada. when they come out with software beyond what they have now, I will go over the 1-1.2ghz barrier. till then I might build an amd 1.2 just for fun but not because its gonna be all that much faster. now in things like seti and folding, I dunno. Seems like phillips machine was outpacing mine easily when it was up but I think he said he had it running on a 750 as well as his 1.1amd That would account for the huge ground gain he did. I dunno. Phillip, mind postin what machines you are runnin again and maybe an estimate on units/hour for your 1.1 machine? my 850@1ghz was doin 1 job per 25 mins or so avg. Anyway, show me some software that will utilize 1.4 or 1.5+ and I'll say ok, great, but I dont use it.

JMO

JD

3D games use the graphic accerator card for the brunt of the work. 500MHz PIII work about as well as 1GHz PIII on Q3. The key is in real world programs, like photoshop, access and especially (for me) premiere.

Now is a great time to wait! Let us seem what comes of the vapor