Debate with me on “how bad kids are these days”.

[RoundEye]

I’m not going to try and spew facts here, it’s all opinion based rhetoric. The only fact is that I’m going to present is that I’m am sick and tired of adults saying “kids are so bad, I wasn’t like then when I was younger”.

Bullchit!

This is the way I see it, of course it’s been proven time and time again that the way I see it and the way it really is are two different things. Please feel free to enlighten me with some valid arguments to my point of view.

Kids didn’t get any younger, we got older and some of us grew up and matured as adults. I think it pisses off some people because they wish as a kid they would have had the balls to be “that damn skater punk” or they were that skater punk and see themselves in that rat bastard of a kid.

I don’t think kids are getting any worse, with our ever expanding population the barrel of apples is getting bigger. The bigger the barrel of apples the more likely you are to have more bad apples. I’ll admit though that because the way some laws are written that the line we wouldn’t cross has been moved. Allowing for the kids that decide to cause trouble, to cause even more grief before they are punished for it.

Also because of modern communication, we see all this stuff instantly. When most of us were kids, there was no internet and hand-held video cameras. There was no way to record something, upload it to the net and let millions of people across the world to view it within a few minutes of it occurring. If you weren’t standing within view of what was going down, the more likely you were to never known it to have happen.

When the Virginia massacre happened, we were there live with camera phones and TV cameras broadcasting that all over the world almost in real time. When we were kids technology like that was only available to Buck Rodgers. Not long ago we would have only found out about the aftermath on the late night news and local paper a few days later.

“Bad kids” are as old as time it self. The next time you want to spew off how bad kids are these days, think about what these philosophers wrote before Christ himself was even born. Grow up people and be young again for once.

This was written approximately 400B.C.

….The Greek philosopher Plato studied under Socrates. Plato complained
about the youth of the day, also. "What is happening to our young
people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They
ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions.
Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"….

This one is believed to have been written 800 years before Christ was born. Seems to me kids really haven’t changed much. We as adults got older, the kids didn’t get younger.

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC).

I’m just tired of so-called grownups ragging on “kids these days”, I firmly believe there are way more good apples then bad. And also if kids are really that much worse, what does that say of us as adults?

[Izzo]

I tried to tell 'em .....get ready for the "I had to chop fifty cords o' wood before breakfast" posts.

[YARDofSTUF]

Kids are the same as before, parents in general are worse with having to work more hours to feed the family kids end up in day cares and crappy schools.

Plus the "american way" of trying to not be held accountable for anything. "get out of speeding/traffic/parking tickets, DUIs, Debt, murder with just one call!"

[YeOldeStonecat]

Also because of modern communication, we see all this stuff instantly. When most of us were kids, there was no internet and hand-held video cameras. There was no way to record something, upload it to the net and let millions of people across the world to view it within a few minutes of it occurring. If you weren’t standing within view of what was going down, the more likely you were to never known it to have happen.

I don't need overhyped media or internet or TV or..or..whatever else people hide behind and view the world with in their own cave, I just need every day life of dealing, in person, with every day people.

Neighbors, kids playing in the neighborhood, children of women I date, children of friends of mine, stories from friends and neighbors who are teachers..and more importantly..have been teachers for 15-20-25-30 years!!!

IMO, it's because kids aren't corporally punished these days.
IMO, it's because of divorced/single parents
IMO, it's because of step parents..which IMO children are less likely to obey or allow them to really fill the true parent role. And on the other hand..the step parent is less likely to care about the step child.

[Gixxer]

baaaaaaaaaaaaaad

[Easto]

Too many people who shouldn't be having kids, are. The maturity level of some of the parents I see amazes me.

[Lefty]

How many couples are having kids and letting day care raise their kids. Back years ago, dad had the job, mom raised the kids. Back years ago, you would go for a road trip and count plates, play punch buggy. These days you have mp3 players, cell phones, dvd players in cars, all based on entertaining, or as I look at it not having to talk with each other. That is one example, I could go on, but its hot and the Legion has beer, smoking and AC.
bbl

[Izzo]

How many couples are having kids and letting day care raise their kids.
bbl

Letting?....most I know are almost forced to. Both parents work full time ..there is no option of staying home and letting mom raise the kids because they can't afford to and even then alot are just barely taking home more than it costs to watch the kids in the first place.

[Rainbow]

“kids are so bad, I wasn’t like then when I was younger”

Actually that is the Only thing in your statement I will agree with. That is 100% true.
When I was a kid we had fear that if we did something wrong we got the belt of the paddle or whatever. The police we were even more afraid of then our parents discipline.
Today because of the times or the government or the "do gooders" kids don't have that fear. They know they can't be beaten and they are not afraid of the police. So what do they have to fear? Nothing

Listen to the language at the local park some day, kids don't respect anything, and if you say something to them they tell you to F off.

And mind you this does not apply to all kids, but it seems like more and more everyday.

[A_old]

Too many people who shouldn't be having kids, are. The maturity level of some of the parents I see amazes me.

[terrancelam]

In my honest opinion, it has all has to do with how you are raised. Some parents follow the traditional methods of raising children:

Although Parents are busy, they are responsible for raising their children and providing them with a moral standard. When they send their children to school, Teachers and other Educators should be given temporary guardian ship and all the authority /responsibilities that comes with it. If a Teacher or Principal feels that a child should be removed from a class (for a reasonable amount of time) forcibly because they are disturbing other students by fighting, yelling/screaming and/or with other such inappropriate behavior, they should have the right to do so. Some of you may say that Teachers and Principals may abuse the system, but I believe that when a person has the authority to deal with a child, the responsibility of being a good guardian / parent also comes along with it. They can be held accountable for the decisions made on behalf of the children while in their care.

More to come later~

[YARDofSTUF]

Hitting the kids or not doesnt make the difference. Theres plently of people around my age and a little younger that werent hit and are pretty good.

[YARDofSTUF]

Listen to the language at the local park some day, kids don't respect anything, and if you say something to them they tell you to F off.

As a society we let our language in greneral become more vulgar.

[jeremyboycool]

It's a myth! Nothing has changed! Evolution takes millions of years not 20!!

People have been preaching the end since the beginning, it never changes!

It's all hype!


At least that is how I feel.

[TonyT]

Kids are "worse" today than 20 years ago, 40 years ago, etc. I'll try to explain why:

There is an important thing to realize, that ALL civilizations have a beginning, a growth, a decay, an end and they ALL HAVE perished. Our current civilization is no different, it too is rapidly decaying. It too will perish UNLESS we reverse the decline, which is a subject for another thread/debate.

There is no Greek civilization anymore, no Roman civilization anymore, no Chaldean civilization anymore, etc. They all experienced similar declines as a result of decaying moral values. That was the thing that ruined them.

The 1960s saw the start of the drug culture, which has speeded up the decline of this civilization. The influence of psychiatry and psychology upon our educational systems and justice system is causing great damage too; "kids classified as having learning disorders" and "no one is at fault-no one is responsible mental illness defenses". These are but a few examples.

Today, kids carry firearms. (subject for a separate thread/debate) Gang members in the 1960s carried knives & were not organized as drug cartels. Grammar school children did not deal drugs and did not aspire to join a gand so as to have a livelyhood. Some may say that they do that out of necessity because life in the ghetto is rough, but it's just BS, there'sno necessity to become a drug dealer.

Literacy levels around the world have been declining. So have crime rates. What we read in the mainstream media about these items' stats are BS too.

Our civilization is dying fast. But that's no reason to say, "F*** it!". We can do something to reverse the trends. It begins with a simlple stuff like "the golden rule" and other similar morals.

[jeremyboycool]

TonyT I have a feeling you might be wrong about the reason why Rome fell.

Not to dispute your point. I understand what it is your saying.

meh, maybe I am wrong.

[jeremyboycool]

And I think Greece was taken out by the Romans.

[Lefty]

Letting?....most I know are almost forced to. Both parents work full time ..there is no option of staying home and letting mom raise the kids because they can't afford to and even then alot are just barely taking home more than it costs to watch the kids in the first place.

actually there was a story done, (don't have a link, and giving cliffs) but they measured 1 lady's income at 75k per year, her husband was a little more, she gave up her job, they changed life styles... and they came up with 10k more, by her adjusting their spending, all the money she spent on clothes, car, parking, lunches, dry cleaning... Long story short she raised her kids and save money by clipping coupons, second hand clothes shops... Very interesting story, kind of inspired me.

[Spammy]

And I think Greece was taken out by the Romans.

Everyone knows that Romans invented sex, It was the greeks that introduced it to women

[jeremyboycool]

Everyone knows that Romans invented sex, It was the greeks that introduced it to women

The Romans invented sex??

A mighty empire indeed.

[Leatherneck]

I watched the difference between young Marines during my 20+ years, I helped run a scout troop for 3 years, I have teenagers and my wife coaches JR High sports so we have some really good first hand experience here. It's certainly a combination of many unfortunate things but in general, YES kids are worse. The disregard for authority is at an all time high, the public schools are a travesty, more gangs than ever, and although "we" certainly had sex on our minds, the scenario was probably more like whacking in the tool shed with a OUI or Playboy rather than screwing the 13 year old girlfriend. Parents suck too and that's a biggie. Used to be if you got called to the principle's office, you got a paddling at school and when you got home. Now the Dad either sues the school or wants to beat the Principle's a$$. A gang thug shoots an innocent person and Momma says, "He was a good boy." Good for what? We thought we were naughty for lighting firecrackers or smoking a cigarette. Would anyone flinch at that now?

Violent video games and TV have to take some blame too.

I saw a comic in yesterday's newspaper. A mother is walking her Son out the front door onto the front yard in the sun. He still has his wireless game controller in his hands when he says, "I've heard about this level before!"

Yep a combo of stuff, but I disagree with the initial comments.

[JawZ]

I’m not going to try and spew facts here, it’s all opinion based rhetoric. The only fact is that I’m going to present is that I’m am sick and tired of adults saying “kids are so bad, I wasn’t like then when I was younger”.

Bullchit!

This is the way I see it, of course it’s been proven time and time again that the way I see it and the way it really is are two different things. Please feel free to enlighten me with some valid arguments to my point of view.

Kids didn’t get any younger, we got older and some of us grew up and matured as adults. I think it pisses off some people because they wish as a kid they would have had the balls to be “that damn skater punk” or they were that skater punk and see themselves in that rat bastard of a kid.

I don’t think kids are getting any worse, with our ever expanding population the barrel of apples is getting bigger. The bigger the barrel of apples the more likely you are to have more bad apples. I’ll admit though that because the way some laws are written that the line we wouldn’t cross has been moved. Allowing for the kids that decide to cause trouble, to cause even more grief before they are punished for it.

Also because of modern communication, we see all this stuff instantly. When most of us were kids, there was no internet and hand-held video cameras. There was no way to record something, upload it to the net and let millions of people across the world to view it within a few minutes of it occurring. If you weren’t standing within view of what was going down, the more likely you were to never known it to have happen.

When the Virginia massacre happened, we were there live with camera phones and TV cameras broadcasting that all over the world almost in real time. When we were kids technology like that was only available to Buck Rodgers. Not long ago we would have only found out about the aftermath on the late night news and local paper a few days later.

“Bad kids” are as old as time it self. The next time you want to spew off how bad kids are these days, think about what these philosophers wrote before Christ himself was even born. Grow up people and be young again for once.

This was written approximately 400B.C.



This one is believed to have been written 800 years before Christ was born. Seems to me kids really haven’t changed much. We as adults got older, the kids didn’t get younger.



I’m just tired of so-called grownups ragging on “kids these days”, I firmly believe there are way more good apples then bad. And also if kids are really that much worse, what does that say of us as adults?

How many children do you have currently?

[jeremyboycool]

Anarchy or freedom?

I mean if you want things your way, than more control needs to be forced. How old is China or Japan?

Americans want too much!
We want guns but we don't want them on the streets.
We want or privacy but we don't want a place for the twisted to hide.
We want freedom of speech and free expression, but we don't want the bad influence of the media, tv, movies and video games.
We want free religion but only with good old fashion traditional values.
We want free enterprise but not big oil or big tobacco.
On, and on and on and on....

-----

You got to take the bad with the good.

[minir]

Hi RoundEye

I'm afraid i have to disagree and believe kids are worse today, for many reasons, most not of their making.

I'm 66yrs old and recall a time when Mom or Grandma was at home looking after the house and the family, while Dad made the living.

This offered many advantages. Kids knew their was sanctuary their and the family knew someone had an eye on the kids.

It was also a street or neighborhood thing. If some parent saw something wrong, be it a fight or your kid smoking, they did not hesitate to step in and correct it, or to call your parents and inform them what was going on.

Your parents Thanked them for doing so (believe that or not) and due punishment was meted out.

Kids ate proper sit down meals at a common table with the family and learned manners as well as a great deal more, as mom and dad asked questions or discussed current world situations. Kids where encouraged to join in and even offer their views.

Homework was done at the kitchen table and mom & dad ensured that it was.

Disobedience was not tolerated and the belt was not uncommon for egregious offences.

The second world war messed with this however as dads went to war and mom went to work. After the conflict ended many women resumed working as they liked the extra income and challenges.

The Nuns ran the Catholic Schools and you got a first class education, as they demanded attendance and hard work.

TV arrived, but it was limited in its hours and didn't do much back then, that was soon to change though. One TV and dad controlled what was viewed.

After school sports were big, hockey in winter and baseball in summer. Kids had pickup games and made and enforced their own rules. No parents involved and therefore kids learned to compromise and negotiate with one another.

We walked to school and home each day and were physically fit. You did not go into the fridge or cupboards without permission.

There was no fast food and junk food was largely unknown then. We ate proper diets and were put to bed on time each night. Breakfast was always their and helped get us off to a good start on the day. We came home for lunch and walked back as well.

We did things as a group. Saturdays was the Movies where a tribe of us kids went and saw 4 or more cartoons, a couple of serials and at least two western movies, where the good guys wore white hats and the bad guys black ones.

There was always a moral and we got the message, though we didn't realise it at the time.

The Radio was big with programs like Boston Blackie, the Shadow and Amos & Andy to name but a few and we used our imaginations as we listened.

Chores were given and it was expected they would be done, or else. Allowances where monitored also.

TV got big. Moms and Dads worked. The advent of Air Conditioning put and effective end to parents sitting on the front veranda and watching over the streets as the kids played their games.

The Veranda gave way to the Deck, now located at the back of the house. No more mom & dad watching their kids or the streets anymore.

Kids watched more and more TV. Families started to eat on the fly. Hardly anymore common meals. Packing a lunch lost favour to the vending machines at school and breakfast was lost along the way as well.

Bad diets, school busing and organized sports run by parents put and end to pickup games and the art of negotiation lost along with it.

Obesity became a family issue, but one the kids in general suffered most from.

Divorce became quite popular in the 70's and parental guidance kind of went out the window. Latchkey kids became a sizeable problem. No one minding the store as it were.

The Schools were taken over by Teachers who were more concerned with their own well being (Wages & Benefits) than the Nuns had prior and the system began to slip badly.

School Busing really screwed the physical well being of the kids up and the schools themselves started cutting back on after school activities (sports) and discouraged sports at recesses.

Now computers entered the scene and we all know what happened then. Couch potatoes.

Parental guidance was non existent as single moms would rather give in than fight with their kids after a hard day at work.

Common courtesy went out the window, language you wouldn't dare use as a kid became common place and the parents themselves joined in.

The wearing of Hats in the house for example. Something i still do not tolerate. I keep my house warm in winter and cool in summer and it seldom rains or snows in the house itself, so i see no need to wear a hat indoors.

Violence on TV and Video Games has certainly not helped, nor our obsession (by the media) on people like Paris or Britney, who are unworthy of any attention, which signals the wrong message to our kids.

Judges and Lawyers rule our morals and are doing a piss poor job of it i might add.

As a whole the family unit has broken down and greed and I, have taken the place of the teachings of hard work and selflessness imho.

Is this the kids fault overall? No i think not, though they are partially responsible without doubt.

Church attendance is down and many other family oriented practices have also gone by the wayside.

Parents need to take back their streets, demand accountability from themselves and their children and be less concerned with the new BMW and spend more time worrying about their childrens schooling, diet and exercise. The best way to do that it to take their kids to sports and participate when possible.

Shut off the TV for a few hours at night and sit with their kids to oversee their homework and sit outside watching their kids play ball or tag in a safe environment.

As a society we have failed our children and we need to rethink our whole outlook and way of life to turn matters around imho.

----

regards

minir

[Bastid]

Hi RoundEye

I'm afraid i have to disagree and believe kids are worse today, for many reasons, most not of their making.

I'm 66yrs old and recall a time when Mom or Grandma was at home looking after the house and the family, while Dad made the living.

This offered many advantages. Kids knew their was sanctuary their and the family knew someone had an eye on the kids.

It was also a street or neighborhood thing. If some parent saw something wrong, be it a fight or your kid smoking, they did not hesitate to step in and correct it, or to call your parents and inform them what was going on.

Your parents Thanked them for doing so (believe that or not) and due punishment was meted out.

Kids ate proper sit down meals at a common table with the family and learned manners as well as a great deal more, as mom and dad asked questions or discussed current world situations. Kids where encouraged to join in and even offer their views.

Homework was done at the kitchen table and mom & dad ensured that it was.

Disobedience was not tolerated and the belt was not uncommon for egregious offences.

The second world war messed with this however as dads went to war and mom went to work. After the conflict ended many women resumed working as they liked the extra income and challenges.

The Nuns ran the Catholic Schools and you got a first class education, as they demanded attendance and hard work.

TV arrived, but it was limited in its hours and didn't do much back then, that was soon to change though. One TV and dad controlled what was viewed.

After school sports were big, hockey in winter and baseball in summer. Kids had pickup games and made and enforced their own rules. No parents involved and therefore kids learned to compromise and negotiate with one another.

We walked to school and home each day and were physically fit. You did not go into the fridge or cupboards without permission.

There was no fast food and junk food was largely unknown then. We ate proper diets and were put to bed on time each night. Breakfast was always their and helped get us off to a good start on the day. We came home for lunch and walked back as well.

We did things as a group. Saturdays was the Movies where a tribe of us kids went and saw 4 or more cartoons, a couple of serials and at least two western movies, where the good guys wore white hats and the bad guys black ones.

There was always a moral and we got the message, though we didn't realise it at the time.

The Radio was big with programs like Boston Blackie, the Shadow and Amos & Andy to name but a few and we used our imaginations as we listened.

Chores were given and it was expected they would be done, or else. Allowances where monitored also.

TV got big. Moms and Dads worked. The advent of Air Conditioning put and effective end to parents sitting on the front veranda and watching over the streets as the kids played their games.

The Veranda gave way to the Deck, now located at the back of the house. No more mom & dad watching their kids or the streets anymore.

Kids watched more and more TV. Families started to eat on the fly. Hardly anymore common meals. Packing a lunch lost favour to the vending machines at school and breakfast was lost along the way as well.

Bad diets, school busing and organized sports run by parents put and end to pickup games and the art of negotiation lost along with it.

Obesity became a family issue, but one the kids in general suffered most from.

Divorce became quite popular in the 70's and parental guidance kind of went out the window. Latchkey kids became a sizeable problem. No one minding the store as it were.

The Schools were taken over by Teachers who were more concerned with their own well being (Wages & Benefits) than the Nuns had prior and the system began to slip badly.

School Busing really screwed the physical well being of the kids up and the schools themselves started cutting back on after school activities (sports) and discouraged sports at recesses.

Now computers entered the scene and we all know what happened then. Couch potatoes.

Parental guidance was non existent as single moms would rather give in than fight with their kids after a hard day at work.

Common courtesy went out the window, language you wouldn't dare use as a kid became common place and the parents themselves joined in.

The wearing of Hats in the house for example. Something i still do not tolerate. I keep my house warm in winter and cool in summer and it seldom rains or snows in the house itself, so i see no need to wear a hat indoors.

Violence on TV and Video Games has certainly not helped, nor our obsession (by the media) on people like Paris or Britney, who are unworthy of any attention, which signals the wrong message to our kids.

Judges and Lawyers rule our morals and are doing a piss poor job of it i might add.

As a whole the family unit has broken down and greed and I, have taken the place of the teachings of hard work and selflessness imho.

Is this the kids fault overall? No i think not, though they are partially responsible without doubt.

Church attendance is down and many other family oriented practices have also gone by the wayside.

Parents need to take back their streets, demand accountability from themselves and their children and be less concerned with the new BMW and spend more time worrying about their childrens schooling, diet and exercise. The best way to do that it to take their kids to sports and participate when possible.

Shut off the TV for a few hours at night and sit with their kids to oversee their homework and sit outside watching their kids play ball or tag in a safe environment.

As a society we have failed our children and we need to rethink our whole outlook and way of life to turn matters around imho.

----

regards

minir

WHAT HE SAID!!!

[lonewolfz28]

Hi RoundEye

I'm afraid i have to disagree and believe kids are worse today, for many reasons, most not of their making.

I'm 66yrs old ...
----

regards

minir

One strong example of why we were taught to respect our elders.

[twwabw]

I have to agree with YOSC, Minir, etc. Life is all about choices. When I hear

Letting?....most I know are almost forced to. Both parents work full time ..there is no option of staying home and letting mom raise the kids because they can't afford to and even then alot are just barely taking home more than it costs to watch the kids in the first place.

This is a perfect example of the "victim" mentality. Sure- there are many who have no choice, but drive through suburbia- the 2 SUV's; the spectacular 3000 sq ft house; then they "have" to both work??? No- you didn't HAVE to- you CHOSE to because you wanted all the goodies and toys. Let's have 2 or 3 kids, a grand or so in car payments (who would dream of paying cash for anything??) a new $800 BBQ grill, that set of Tommy Armor golf clubs, and then whine about money. These are the ones that get to me. So we piss and moan that Mommy "has" to work, and it's just such a struggle juggling day care and being a "career woman". Uh-huh.

If you spend any time in school, around your kids classes (my wife volunteers- has since kindergarden) you can tell right away which kids spend their lives in day care outside of school. It's really obvious when they are first entering school. But hey- now the schoold can be day-care for at least part of the day.... cool! Oh, and don't forget Hillary wants to mandate pre-school for ALL children if she gets elected (God help us all). That's just what we need- "Free" daycare. Of course, the schools will have to be expanded, hire more teachers (oooh.... there's a nice little bonus huh?) and then we'll all get our "free" pre-school! Now Mommy can go to work and keep more to help pay for her new SUV. Meanwhile, Bobby and Susie continue to miss out on what they need most- Mom and Dad.

IZZO, you said "most I know are almost forced to", but then in the next breath say "and even then alot are just barely taking home more than it costs to watch the kids in the first place". Ding ding ding. If you look at it rationally, many would discover that if they didn't work, they wouldn't need a 2nd NEW car- cause they'd only be running errands; no day care costs; no clothing allowances to dress spiffy at work; no lunches out; no parking ramp fees; reduced auto insurance; less on gas, maintenance and tires etc., less eating out cause you're too tired to cook, and maybe even some time to get to know your own kids and enjoy them.

We waited 8 years to have a child. We wanted to be sure we had enough debt paid off to let my wife quit her job and become a full time Mom. It can be done. But this requires patience, planning, and a little dose of maturity. Yes- there are many "accidents" that force the start of families, when financially they are not prepared and in no position to stay home. But here's a thought... biologically we know how this works, right? Maybe think before we f....., well- you know. But that's another whole story huh?

Our kids need parents today as much or more than they ever did before. Until parents start acting like parents, and accept the responsibility of it and maybe do without some things they want, it will not improve. Day care should not raise your children if it is at all possible to avoid it. When they're adults, your kids will never remember they had a small house and an old car growing up- they'll just remember time spent with Mom and Dad.

[David]

I have to agree with YOSC, Minir, etc. Life is all about choices. When I hear


This is a perfect example of the "victim" mentality. Sure- there are many who have no choice, but drive through suburbia- the 2 SUV's; the spectacular 3000 sq ft house; then they "have" to both work??? No- you didn't HAVE to- you CHOSE to because you wanted all the goodies and toys. Let's have 2 or 3 kids, a grand or so in car payments (who would dream of paying cash for anything??) a new $800 BBQ grill, that set of Tommy Armor golf clubs, and then whine about money. These are the ones that get to me. So we piss and moan that Mommy "has" to work, and it's just such a struggle juggling day care and being a "career woman". Uh-huh.

Such might be the case with exurbia and the wealthy suburbs, but not the working poor or separated families. Not to disgree that our consumerist society has pressed folks into increasing household income (children can be cruel to the lone kid without the Air Jordans).

[twwabw]

Absolutely- couldn't agree more. The working poor, etc., are not what I am referring to. In those cases, you gotta do whatcha gotta do.

[David]

Minir,

I would have to agree with the majority of those sentiments.

The changes in our society are related to our advances in the sciences with the products and services they provide. Said advancements have altered our social system dramatically over the past one hundred years, and the level of vicissitude has been accelerating.

more to come...

[Think]

I don't think kids are worse, just more displaced. I really think that some of you should look back into your childhood and try to recall some of the mischievous acts. One of the problems we have today is the lack of tolerance for adolescent behavior and how we would prefer to punish ( using governing laws) then to resolve. I suppose that since the baby boomer's are getting older, there becoming less tolerant and would want this hidden behind bars. I think baby boomer's are the problem.

What has shifted tremendously is the increase anxiety of western world society. It seems that since our intervention with the middle east and there attacks, people have become very concerned. The shift from a the illusions of a peaceful society has transcended to one of barriers and revenge.

Obviously there's more to this and my comments are only relevant to my own region. I'm sure that it's worse in other areas.

What will help?

I think that the lack of spiritual growth has hindered the moral core of society. Religious organizations should not be polarizing there institutions but should grow to expand there philosophies and respect other concepts of truth.

I believe that working parents can make it work, but it takes WORK to do it. Sitting down to have dinner with your children is extremely important and creates a routine of communication. So if you both work, then make sure your careers are secondary to the 6 pm dinner...unless you want to raise a Paris Hilton.

SPORTS,SPORTS,SPORTS - #1

Especially for boys, sport activity is very important but don't apply pressure on your children - let them enjoy the comradeship of being part of a team. Coaching for so many years makes you see the incredible amount of pressure some parents place on there kids to succeed, but the truth is that no child will do well without the confidence behind them. Skills can be taught, but a child without the "heart" in the game is a ghost - being paralyzed by either a forced choice or lack of confidence.

READ READ

Will Smith made such a comment in one of his award ceremonies but it's true. Reading is not just about learning but it teaches your children to focus - one of the major flaws with allot of children. The television and the internet tend to teach children a 'commercial' shot of history and literature and rarely would a child sit and read a web log for hours at a time. I know many adults that think there some sort of guru on history or astronomy because they watched the HISTORY/SPACE channel the previous evening!
Let's not forget that some of the greatest minds in history, harnessed there imagination because they were exposed to literature and art - a hands on approach to the learning experience with a tactile feel.

INTERNET=GARBAGE

The internet is an amazing tool but children should not be exposed to most of the garbage that's on the net nor do I believe that chat groups should be the primary way of communication. There's more to communication then the typed word or 'smilies'. Children learn a great deal from there environment, so talk to your children and let them communicate thought in person - you'll be amazed at how much information the body and tone of a persons voice can resonate.

One of our favorite games is the debate game that I play with my kids. I will suggest a topic of discussion and each child will have to try to win there argument - it's allot of fun, especially when the side that was chosen is not what they truly believe.

.....I'm getting long winded but there is quit a bit more I can say on this but I took the day off and am heading to the TO Zoo.

PS, I should of talked about video games but I'm sure someone will hit that point.

CHOW

[blebs]

I don't know Roundeye, I think that technology maturing has matured the kids too, which gives the illusion that they are worse, but not necessarily so. Parents---I've seen the best of both worlds here. Some should not have kids period and others are to be commended.

[minir]

Minir,

I would have to agree with the majority of those sentiments.

The changes in our society are related to our advances in the sciences with the products and services they provide. Said advancements have altered our social system dramatically over the past one hundred years, and the level of vicissitude has been accelerating.

more to come...

---

Thanks david

I agree with your assessment as well. There are so many things we can focus on and point our fingers at for being responsible for our kids behaviour, but. These were simply a few that came to mind.

I do think more Companies need to start offering Apprenticeships to young untrained or unschooled kids. Many of these kids are quite bright and capable, but for one reason or another left the school system and have trouble finding decent jobs.

Hell there are good paying jobs that a chimp could do, yet they insist on a higher education, while a whole talent pool goes untapped. Many a kid would be thrilled pulling lever A and pushing button B for the rest of their life at a decent wage.

imho CEO's should have bonuses based on Job creation and originality in the workplace as part of their mandate. Its simply too easy going the opposite route to show profit.

Just some thoughts.

---

Enjoy your day

minir

[Izzo]

I have to agree with YOSC, Minir, etc. Life is all about choices. When I hear


This is a perfect example of the "victim" mentality. Sure- there are many who have no choice, but drive through suburbia- the 2 SUV's; the spectacular 3000 sq ft house; then they "have" to both work??? No- you didn't HAVE to- you CHOSE to because you wanted all the goodies and toys. Let's have 2 or 3 kids, a grand or so in car payments (who would dream of paying cash for anything??) a new $800 BBQ grill, that set of Tommy Armor golf clubs, and then whine about money. These are the ones that get to me. So we piss and moan that Mommy "has" to work, and it's just such a struggle juggling day care and being a "career woman". Uh-huh.

If you spend any time in school, around your kids classes (my wife volunteers- has since kindergarden) you can tell right away which kids spend their lives in day care outside of school. It's really obvious when they are first entering school. But hey- now the schoold can be day-care for at least part of the day.... cool! Oh, and don't forget Hillary wants to mandate pre-school for ALL children if she gets elected (God help us all). That's just what we need- "Free" daycare. Of course, the schools will have to be expanded, hire more teachers (oooh.... there's a nice little bonus huh?) and then we'll all get our "free" pre-school! Now Mommy can go to work and keep more to help pay for her new SUV. Meanwhile, Bobby and Susie continue to miss out on what they need most- Mom and Dad.

IZZO, you said "most I know are almost forced to", but then in the next breath say "and even then alot are just barely taking home more than it costs to watch the kids in the first place". Ding ding ding. If you look at it rationally, many would discover that if they didn't work, they wouldn't need a 2nd NEW car- cause they'd only be running errands; no day care costs; no clothing allowances to dress spiffy at work; no lunches out; no parking ramp fees; reduced auto insurance; less on gas, maintenance and tires etc., less eating out cause you're too tired to cook, and maybe even some time to get to know your own kids and enjoy them.

We waited 8 years to have a child. We wanted to be sure we had enough debt paid off to let my wife quit her job and become a full time Mom. It can be done. But this requires patience, planning, and a little dose of maturity. Yes- there are many "accidents" that force the start of families, when financially they are not prepared and in no position to stay home. But here's a thought... biologically we know how this works, right? Maybe think before we f....., well- you know. But that's another whole story huh?

Our kids need parents today as much or more than they ever did before. Until parents start acting like parents, and accept the responsibility of it and maybe do without some things they want, it will not improve. Day care should not raise your children if it is at all possible to avoid it. When they're adults, your kids will never remember they had a small house and an old car growing up- they'll just remember time spent with Mom and Dad.

I'm sorry you said it's a mentality ? a mentality, eh? Wow. I guess I wasn't applying any "reason" to my thoughts, observations and experiences when I posted. Thanks for correcting me. I'll be sure to tell my wife when I get home tonight that we really don't need her to work anymore because ...dammit we were just too stupid to figure it out before.


your post reeks of ignorance, arrogance and affluence....I'm not sure what kinda people you associate with but it's clear they're worlds apart from those I do.


it's not a fricken choice ....it just isn't anymore man....

[twwabw]

IZZO- selectively read and quote what you choose, and ignore where I said "Sure- there are many who have no choice" and "These are the ones that get to me". But you can gleem what you want to from it. ignorance? no not really. arrogance? Possibly- especially when I see kids influenced by what I see above. affluence? Up for interpretation I guess. Sure didn't come from it, I can tell you that. No silver spoon here. But facts are facts, and it still remains true, in the examples I showed (those wanting to have everything, instead of choosing to stay home). A mentaility? For those people yes, I believe it is. Did I say it applied to everyone? Did I say it apllied to you? No on both counts. So don't put words in my mouth, thank you.

[Izzo]

IZZO- selectively read and quote what you choose, and ignore where I said "Sure- there are many who have no choice" and "These are the ones that get to me". But you can gleem what you want to from it.

I read and understood it...but you qualified those to "working-poor & etc" and that isn't the case. I meant what I posted.

[twwabw]

I read and understood it...but you qualified those to "working-poor & etc" and that isn't the case. I meant what I posted.

Obviously you meant it, but apparently you don't comprehend this:

Absolutely- couldn't agree more. The working poor, etc., are not what I am referring to. In those cases, you gotta do whatcha gotta do.

[Izzo]

Obviously you meant it, but apparently you don't comprehend this:

if there's a comprehension problem it isn't on my end

[twwabw]

Point out to me specifically where I "but you qualified those to "working-poor & etc" " ???? I specifically said I was not referring to that.

[David]

---

Thanks david

I agree with your assessment as well. There are so many things we can focus on and point our fingers at for being responsible for our kids behaviour, but. These were simply a few that came to mind.

I do think more Companies need to start offering Apprenticeships to young untrained or unschooled kids. Many of these kids are quite bright and capable, but for one reason or another left the school system and have trouble finding decent jobs.

Hell there are good paying jobs that a chimp could do, yet they insist on a higher education, while a whole talent pool goes untapped. Many a kid would be thrilled pulling lever A and pushing button B for the rest of their life at a decent wage.

imho CEO's should have bonuses based on Job creation and originality in the workplace as part of their mandate. Its simply too easy going the opposite route to show profit.

Just some thoughts.

---

Enjoy your day

minir

Good day Larry,

Remember also that in the past, children were brought into this world to help the household. Although many look askance at the youngsters toiling in the local Chinese restaurant, I see a family working together on a shared business. At least, my right winged side sees it......


david