Captured troops, a pretext for war...

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:41 am

It's such an easy and effective tactic. It's a false flag.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:56 am

Most countries prescribe to the "Leave no man behind" theory and when one chooses to make the kind of commitment to serve his country that is the least his country can do. Naturally, there should be diplomatic steps taken first, but you can't bail on those who have chosen to serve.

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:11 am

This is purposeful. You let your soldiers get captured and then use that as an excuse to carry out military operations. The level of response by Israel is nowhere near justified for, what, 8 deaths of soldiers and two captured? Blow up buildings? Attack the Beirut airport?

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:14 am

The response doesn't surprise me. You can't BS around in that region it looks like. Lobbing threats isn't gonna get Israel anywhere......you wanna get serious with them, you bomb them so unmercifuly that they'd be scared ****less to try something stupid in the future. If they are that stupid, then you smoke them again.

Sarahnn · Post by **Sarahnn** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:15 am

Burke wrote:It's such an easy and effective tactic. It's a false flag.

If the troops are on military stand-by or alert, a war was looming anyway.

What is someone trying to tell you when they capture your troops? War sounds like a good guess. No?

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:19 am

Prey521 wrote:The response doesn't surprise me. You can't BS around in that region it looks like. Lobbing threats isn't gonna get Israel anywhere......you wanna get serious with them, you bomb them so unmercifuly that they'd be scared ****less to try something stupid in the future. If they are that stupid, then you smoke them again.

Ya, they sure don't beat around the bush do they?

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:24 am

Izzo wrote:Ya, they sure don't beat around the bush do they?

LOL, doesn't look like it:

Army Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz warned that the assault would widen, saying the military would target infrastructure and "turn back the clock in Lebanon by 20 years," if the soldiers were not returned, Israeli TV reported.

I believe him too, them mofos don't play, eeesh!! They also dropped leaflets in a neighborhood outside Beirut where some Hezbollah leader lives telling the residents they better get out. I'd listen if I were them.

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:25 am

Sarahnn wrote:If the troops are on military stand-by or alert, a war was looming anyway.

What is someone trying to tell you when they capture your troops? War sounds like a good guess. No?

ALL troops are on "stand by." It comes with the job.

The fact is, while Hamas is a terrorist organization with nothing but Israel's total demise as its driving philosophy, Israel tends to be heavy-handed in their response. Neither side ever had any intention of getting along; I just find the whole capture scenario a convenient justification.

Sarahnn · Post by **Sarahnn** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:33 am

Burke wrote:ALL troops are on "stand by." It comes with the job.

Not so....there is stand down also. That was the condition of Pearl Harbor on that fateful day in December.

The fact is, while Hamas is a terrorist organization with nothing but Israel's total demise as its driving philosophy, Israel tends to be heavy-handed in their response.

Yes indeed.

Neither side ever had any intention of getting along]

It is a justification in itself. I need to read more about it to comment further.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:47 am

"The fact is, while Hamas is a terrorist organization with nothing but Israel's total demise as its driving philosophy, Israel tends to be heavy-handed in their response."

You say that is if there's something wrong with that logic in this case. Hamas needs to know what they have coming to them should they pursue further violence, which they undoubtedly will.

triniwasp · Post by **triniwasp** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:22 am

Burke wrote:This is purposeful. You let your soldiers get captured and then use that as an excuse to carry out military operations. The level of response by Israel is nowhere near justified for, what, 8 deaths of soldiers and two captured? Blow up buildings? Attack the Beirut airport?

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:54 am

Well, well, whaddaya know?

Israel has information that Lebanese guerrillas who captured two Israeli soldiers are trying to transfer them to Iran, the Foreign Ministry spokesman said. Spokesman Mark Regev did not disclose the source of his information.

That's all we need to go into Iran. Our good buddies in Israel are prepping the table nicely.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:03 pm

Burke wrote:Well, well, whaddaya know?

Israel has information that Lebanese guerrillas who captured two Israeli soldiers are trying to transfer them to Iran, the Foreign Ministry spokesman said. Spokesman Mark Regev did not disclose the source of his information.

That's all we need to go into Iran. Our good buddies in Israel are prepping the table nicely.

How conveeeeeeenient.

triniwasp · Post by **triniwasp** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:58 pm

Burke wrote:Well, well, whaddaya know?

Israel has information that Lebanese guerrillas who captured two Israeli soldiers are trying to transfer them to Iran, the Foreign Ministry spokesman said. Spokesman Mark Regev did not disclose the source of his information.

That's all we need to go into Iran. Our good buddies in Israel are prepping the table nicely.

No ****, god I hope by now we have the good sense to stay out of it. Israel upped the anty, let them save their own asses!

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:19 pm

I really don't think this was a false flag OP. I believe that Hamas and Hizbollah actually did these things. I agree the Iran connection is a little too convenient and is definitley a lead-in excuse.You never know though with all the BS and lies everyone spews over there, and I do mean everyone.

Pie

Bouncer · Post by **Bouncer** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:32 pm

Burke wrote:It's such an easy and effective tactic. It's a false flag.

Doubtful. More likely is that the response is purposely designed to make a point to would be kidnappers (and those who might support them) that the cost of a kidnapping/beheading campaign would be prohibitively high. Israel has lost a handful of troops to dozens of Palestinians and Lebanese killed and tens of millions of dollars in damages.

Israel seems intent on creating the perception that, like a citizen of Rome, it's people cannot be attacked without very very serious retribution. Thus making the practical cost simply too high for all but the most fanatical to even attempt. Thus, the tactic is not likely to have much support among the populace/leaders/politicans who either want to be left in peace, or want to have a standing country to excercise power over.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Bouncer reposted what I said, just better worded!

David · Post by **David** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:19 pm

Unlike Rome, cameras are capturing the horror for the world to see and pass judgement. Those who perpetrated the kidnap did so for their own purposes, not to benefit the nascent Gazan regime. Rather than permitting the Palestinian government to display any ability in extricating the soldiers, Israeli hawks utilized the occurance as an invite for hostilities.

I have to read further regarding the Lebanese "campaign".

Far-N-Wide · Post by **Far-N-Wide** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:56 pm

I hope the hate group folks take the hint... Don't FU** with Israel. They got rights to live and I support them. The veiled implication by burke that Israel planned this capture of it's own Soldier is just sad.

Back off the Chicken Little pills man. No more taking fist full's of the bad boys... Maybe you should lower the dosage of your Conspiracy Theory Meds. At the very least get a larger Aluminum Foil Hat.

Focusing on hate, fear and negative events only begets more of the same. Go hug a kitten, do something nice for someone, or fold your hands in prayer.

vc_wannabe · Post by **vc_wannabe** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:24 am

Israel is just doing this...

You wanna know how you do it? Here's how, they pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue.

Sarahnn · Post by **Sarahnn** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:25 am

Prey521 wrote:Bouncer reposted what I said, just better worded!

He's done that to me before too. I think we should take it as a compliment. We inspire him.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:03 am

Burke wrote:This is purposeful. You let your soldiers get captured and then use that as an excuse to carry out military operations. The level of response by Israel is nowhere near justified for, what, 8 deaths of soldiers and two captured? Blow up buildings? Attack the Beirut airport?

You sure you aren't Oliver Stone?

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:37 am

Far-N-Wide wrote:I hope the hate group folks take the hint... Don't FU** with Israel. They got rights to live and I support them. The veiled implication by burke that Israel planned this capture of it's own Soldier is just sad.

Back off the Chicken Little pills man. No more taking fist full's of the bad boys... Maybe you should lower the dosage of your Conspiracy Theory Meds. At the very least get a larger Aluminum Foil Hat.

Focusing on hate, fear and negative events only begets more of the same. Go hug a kitten, do something nice for someone, or fold your hands in prayer.

So are you saying the Palestinians dont have a right to live?

As far as false flag ops go...you should maybe speak to the commander of the USS Liberty. There have been false flag ops attempted before in US/Israeli history. Its not an unbelievable idea. That attack was intended to draw us into a war with Egypt. If it hadn't been for the ship surviving the attack we would have blamed them. Its still denied until today even though there are US servicemen who claim differently.

Tin-foil hat is a little more stylish then blinders. If you sift through some of the Conspiracies, some do have merit, others not worth the time.

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:23 am

When your soldiers get captured of kidnapped, you use intelligence to determine their location (someone will always blab), and then you send in special forces to retireve them; you don't start lobbing bombs on ministry buildings and airports.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:28 am

Burke, I'd have to agree with you, but in this case, it's just escalated into the Hatfield's and the McCoys.

I don't see an end and it's not like Israel has a country to fight but an ideology that's scattered throughout the world. I would agree that they do have a right to defend themselves. How they accomplish that is what's at the crux of the matter.

blebs · Post by **blebs** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:37 am

I just wonder how much Israel is going to take before escalating the whole area into a nuclear conflict.

Far-N-Wide · Post by **Far-N-Wide** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:26 am

thepieman wrote:So are you saying the Palestinians dont have a right to live?

Certainly Palestinians have the right to live. Folks who commit acts of Terrorism have little rights for what they have done. The fact that so many Palestinians are members of Hamas is well a fact... Those folks (Hamas) are causing strife and woe.

I'm not saying Israel's hands are so clean. But, I can say I largely agree with their efforts to secure their country by ridding if of Hamas and Hezbollah militants. Who have publically acted and boasted of their terrorist acts and activities against Israel.

We (the world) are better off with fewer hate groups. To stand by and let them conduct acts of terroism unchecked is just foolish thinking. This is a war, one we are fighting and Israel is fighting. I am saddend to hear of inocent civilans caught up in the middle ground.

I do not see Israel using civilans as human shields as the Hamas has done. Something has to be done, some follks have to act. I hope and pray this does not get out of hand. But , the bottom line is. Israel is looking out for Israel. I hope they win this round. They are by far the more stable humans in the region. Far betterthen the Hamas and Hezbollah folks.

Sarahnn · Post by **Sarahnn** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:14 am

Yeah, all kinds of extremist groups have sprung up from and because of the inception of the State of Israel.

Is there a solution other than the obvious, which isn't really a solution at all?

triniwasp · Post by **triniwasp** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:33 am

Sarahnn wrote:Yeah, all kinds of extremist groups have sprung up from and because of the inception of the State of Israel.

Is there a solution other than the obvious, which isn't really a solution at all?

I think the only viable solution is that the US and Israel make some serious concessions and have faith that the vast majority of muslims do not want to live in some Medieval Theocracy.

We need to get to a point where both cultures can tolerate one another. I don't think there will be amicability for a long long time, if ever.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:41 am

triniwasp wrote:We need to get to a point where both cultures can tolerate one another.

Impossible

I don't think there will be amicability for a long long time, if ever.

[Chris Rock] Neva eva? Neva EVA![/Chris Rock]

triniwasp · Post by **triniwasp** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:06 pm

Prey521 wrote:Impossible

[Chris Rock] Neva eva? Neva EVA![/Chris Rock]

So prey, your saying the situation is hopeless?

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:07 pm

triniwasp wrote:So prey, your saying the situation is hopeless?

Yep

Sarahnn · Post by **Sarahnn** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:09 pm

triniwasp wrote:I think the only viable solution is that the US and Israel make some serious concessions and have faith that the vast majority of muslims do not want to live in some Medieval Theocracy. .

I think that's a real smart idea.

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:56 am

'Whatever may be the fate of the captive soldier Gilad Shalit, the Israeli army's war in Gaza is not about him. As senior security analyst Alex Fishman widely reported, the army was preparing for an attack months earlier and was constantly pushing for it, with the goal of destroying the Hamas infrastructure and its government. The army initiated an escalation on 8 June when it assassinated Abu Samhadana, a senior appointee of the Hamas government, and intensified its shelling of civilians in the Gaza Strip.

Governmental authorization for action on a larger scale was already given by 12 June, but it was postponed in the wake of the global reverberation caused by the killing of civilians in the air force bombing the next day. The abduction of the soldier released the safety-catch, and the operation began on 28 June with the destruction of infrastructure in Gaza and the mass detention of the Hamas leadership in the West Bank, which was also planned weeks in advance.'

Zilog B · Post by **Zilog B** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:38 am

I think the next few weeks could be pretty interesting. Good thing I got my bike fixed.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:55 am

Zilog B wrote:I think the next few weeks could be pretty interesting. Good thing I got my bike fixed.

I'm wishin' I had a scooter

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:32 am

Izzo wrote:I'm wishin' I had a scooter

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Captured troops, a pretext for war...

Captured troops, a pretext for war...

planned for weeks before the abduction of the soldier..