SCotUSA upholds "no military recruiting; no money" law

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thepieman
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Post by thepieman »

Meggie wrote:would you want to shower with someone who is openly gay? The issue is not a moral one.. the military isnt saying that its wrong to be gay, they are just saying that with quarters being as close as they are in the military being gay may cause uneeded stress on both sides. I think the showering thing is the main thing that makes it different then any/most other jobs.
Not particularly no, but if I was in a situation such as a public gym or something of that nature I wouldn't have much of a choice. Do I come in contact with gay people outside of that situation...probably on a daily basis in my business, and neighbors.
But now your just reaching for reasons to disagree.. do you disagree with recruiters being in schools because u think they are trying to rob young children of an education or because they dont allow openly gay homosexuals?
Im not looking for a reason to disagree but when you put it in a way that it makes it sound like its no different from any other job or that it may be better in some ways as far as keeping a person out of trouble etc etc as to the reasoning for why they should be allowed just as any other business should be is when I brought that point up.
As im sure you already know, the military does allow gay people. It just so on the 'dont ask, dont tell' policy. You can be gay all you want, but you cant run around the baracks in nothing but your little brown breifs talking about how you want to bone that hot sergeant bigness..
:rotfl:
And again about the tricked out humvee... i agreed it is being used to attract kids.. but so what if the 10 year old kid likes it. It does no harm to him, if it attracts an 18 year old to join, then so what?
It is a form of subliminal advertising. It is a little unfair. It also makes it seem as though being in wartime is something thats fun and video games galore, when its not.
My main beef is its wartime and its a questionable war. At a time when kids should be learning and making something with their lives , you end up with some overzealous recruiter signing them up and taking away their chance at an education only to end up doing patrols in a desert town in Iraq learning nothing. They have ads galore on TV and games on the internet and cool videos for the kids to see on the various military sites and of course the recruiters offices and I think that should be more then sufficient to cover things.


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Post by knightmare »

cyberskye wrote:Wow - welcome to 1954.

I don't understand how so many people that are not gay can explain exactly what it means to be gay and why one may be gay.

Based on your logic tho, keeping blacks and hispanics out of the military is ok - it's not a democracy and good ole southern boys might not be ready for anyone to come out of the cotton fields and serve with them...and I still don't get why the women folk can't realize that they belong barefoot in the kitchen

Wow.

As far as gay goes, The Spartans practiced same sex with each other. A very respected group of warriors. (There was a theory that warriors would fight more fiercely knowing that their lovers were both watching and fighting alongside them.)
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Post by knightmare »

thepieman wrote:I tell you what...Open up a business, and decline the person because he's gay and lets see how long it takes the Atty. General, Labor department or whoever is in charge of Equal Opportunity Employment, plus Civil suit lawyers, Gay rights groups and lets see how long you stay in business for.
From the way you are talking you make it sound like there haven't been gay people in the military before.
You lose your business license in Cali, for gay descrimination. Here in boondock, KY., Louisville has a Fairness law, with basically the same provisions.
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Post by Far-N-Wide »

thepieman wrote:Yeah! Screw an education for the kids! Lettem all enlist or be recruited before they finish school. Lets go a step further and make compulsive military training at age 18 for the legal right to vote and citizenship too. Yeah! :rolleyes:

Actually, that's an excellent Idea. :thumb:

As a retired military man, I can say that a lot of kids today could use the wake up call. You would be surprised at the number of kids coming into the military, who have no life skills. No clue what a work ethic is or means. Most thought they could come in and skate by.

In Europe 2 years of military service is a reality. Crime rates in those countries with this reality, pales by an order of magnitude in comparison to our crime rates. I'm not saying this is only due to those two years of service. But in those two years, I am certain a lot of growing up and adult thinking happens. Our slacker generation could certainly use a shot of reality.
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Post by Lefty »

Izzo wrote:ooh oooh Mr. Kotter Mr. Kotter
Fixed
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Post by vinnie »

o.O How did gay people get in this thread? Since we're discussing it... the civilians here have decreed that gay de facto couples are now recognized for military financial and housing benefits. Woowoo. From illegal to encouraged in 14 years :cool:

'Equal opportunity' isn't something that really gets on too well with the idea of the military. There are a number of restrictions regarding height, weight, colour perception, healthy, allergies, asthma, vision and hearing that don't affect almost any other job in any way. Civilian laws are great for civilians.
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Post by Meggie »

thepieman wrote:It is a form of subliminal advertising. It is a little unfair. It also makes it seem as though being in wartime is something thats fun and video games galore, when its not.
My main beef is its wartime and its a questionable war. At a time when kids should be learning and making something with their lives , you end up with some overzealous recruiter signing them up and taking away their chance at an education only to end up doing patrols in a desert town in Iraq learning nothing. They have ads galore on TV and games on the internet and cool videos for the kids to see on the various military sites and of course the recruiters offices and I think that should be more then sufficient to cover things.

Pie


Im actually really sad to hear u say that, because that means that you honestly believe that the military isn't beneficial. Personally i learned more in the military then i have in any of my civilian schooling. Ive learned stuff that helps me in the real world more then geometry ever will. That kid thats doing patrols in iraq, and putting off college for a year is learning self control, personal responsibility, attention to detail, leadership skills, and so many other qualities. When he gets back he wont be the freshman in college not going to class and being overwhelmed by the workload. Ive seen it personally. I did a year of college and my GPA was 1.0 I had no direction, no responsibility. I went to basic training and my advanced individual training (that was harder then any college course i ever took) and came back and went back to college and my GPA went up to a 3.2

Im not the only one either, ive seen it with a lot of kids. My unit is very close to bridgeport, a really ****ty city in CT. a lot of the kids that the recruiters bring in really have no chance at college, their parents are poor, theyre poor and they all just accept the fact that they will be like that their whole lives. They all seem to have 1 or 2 kids by the time they are 20, work in some minimum wage job, have no real skills. The military gives them max 20,000$ to sign up. Then sends them to basic training where they learn that this isnt the street, this isnt the ghetto, they learn to deal with having some big guy get in their face and are unable to pull out a weapon and retaliate like they would do on the street, they learn how to deal with working and cooperating with people from all races, from all walks of life, from all over the country. Then the military sends them to a trade school, where they learn how to drive trucks (get their CDL) or how to be a carpenter, a medic, military police, or any rage of other jobs and they are paid well while they are there.

Now that same individual comes back, has money for his family, maybe to move out of the bad neighborhood, he now has a trade that he can apply to a better job then cashiere at walmart, now he can go to college for free, not to mention all the underlying skills that he learned throughout the training, and the personal pride that he has just knowing that he has done something with his life, hes a soldier, he can put on the uniform and be a hero to his kids.

Thats what i see on a daily basis. To be completely honest, the high class, white, rich kid from a wealthy family is not your typical kid to join the military. Im not saying that its right, but the people that are joining are usually not on the road to great things and this side tracks that. These kids that are joining are usually heading in the wrong direction and this gives them the oportunity to make something of themselves. Let me tell u that 19 year old kid that may spend a year doing patrols in iraq, will come back with more worldy experience and knowledge then the average middle aged man that has sat in a cubicle his whole life, sure he went to a good college and got a high paying job... but i would choose the life of the soldier over the cubicle rat anyday.
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Post by Lefty »

Meggie wrote:Im Let me tell u that 19 year old kid that may spend a year doing patrols in iraq, will come back with more worldy experience and knowledge then the average middle aged man that has sat in a cubicle his whole life, sure he went to a good college and got a high paying job... but i would choose the life of the soldier over the cubicle rat anyday.
I would be an example of that. I grew up in the hood and when I went in at 17 it helped me see new places experience new things. If I hadn't gone into the service I doubt I would have ever made it out of NYC in that economic prison. (unless I met someones rich daughter :D ) I have now lived in paradise for 26 years, have a beutiful family and a great job a modest home... I attribute that to my great upbringing (Mom) and the experiences I got from the USCG. I am now better tuned into people from all over the country because I served with people from every state. I am more tolerant of different people because of the disipline installed in my training. Its not for everyone but not everything is.
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Post by Leatherneck »

What about Gay recruiters in pimped out Hummers on College campus handing out bibles and condoms purchased with government funds!
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Post by cyberskye »

bigmo66 wrote:What about Gay recruiters in pimped out Hummers on College campus handing out bibles and condoms purchased with government funds!
I like the condom bit. I'd like to see a little consistency with the pro-life and pro-death penalty thing, but that's probably for another thread.
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:wth:
Blisster wrote:It *would* be brokeback bay if I in fact went and hung out with Skye and co (did I mention he is teh hotness?)
:wth:
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Post by MadDoctor »

bigmo66 wrote:What about Gay recruiters
Why do you keep looking at me that way?!?!?!?!
People will forget what you said... and people will forget what you did... but people will never forget how you made them feel.
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Post by knightmare »

Ironically this ad was in this thread before i logged in, while viewing...



Military LCD Monitors
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Lucas Military Recruiters
Military transition recruiting into corporate America; since 1970.
http://www.Lucasgroup.com/military

Recruiting
Browse through our great directory of Recruiting information.
http://www.allbizsites.com
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Post by Leatherneck »

cyberskye wrote:I like the condom bit. I'd like to see a little consistency with the pro-life and pro-death penalty thing, but that's probably for another thread.
Another thread perhaps, but a quick tidbit:

Total US Deaths from all wars, Revolutionary to Desert Storm: 1,150,244
Total US Deaths by execution from 1976 - present: 1012
Total US abortions from 1973-2005: 47,282,923

All deaths are tragic and I am NOT a proponent of the death penalty for personal reasons, but the abortion numbers are staggering & shameful even by the most liberal, secular meaning.
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Post by Ghosthunter »

this thread got it all...military, condoms...gay..and now abortions

LOL
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Post by Zilog B »

It's a vast Zionist Freemason Conspiracy funded by the YMCA
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Post by Leatherneck »

Zilog B wrote:It's a vast Zionist Freemason Conspiracy funded by the YMCA
You sure it's not the Gay Amish Midget Wrestling Federation?
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Post by cyberskye »

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f ... HKQ4A8.DTL
(3-8) 16:40 PST SAN FRANCISCO -- Two Mendocino County high school students who say they were raped by Marine Corps recruiters sued the Marines in San Francisco today, claiming that the corps "fosters and condones'' sexual assaults by recruiters.
anything is possible - nothing is free

:wth:
Blisster wrote:It *would* be brokeback bay if I in fact went and hung out with Skye and co (did I mention he is teh hotness?)
:wth:
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Post by Bo Riddick »

Women sue over sex with Marine recruiters...
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsartic ... xml&rpc=22

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Two women who said two U.S. Marine Corps recruiters forced them to have sex after they expressed interest in joining the force sued over the incidents on Wednesday.
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Post by cyberskye »

I hope they had condoms in their humvee.

I hear hollywood
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:wth:
Blisster wrote:It *would* be brokeback bay if I in fact went and hung out with Skye and co (did I mention he is teh hotness?)
:wth:
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Post by Leatherneck »

"...claiming that the corps "fosters and condones'' sexual assaults by recruiters."

That's pure Bullsheet! Recruiters are beat over the head with "Do NOT TOUCH an APPLICANT!" time and time again. Recruiters know this is a career ending move. I saw at least 2 Recruiters go down for having sexual relations with applicants. It happens mind you, but it isn't condoned. That statement is moronic. Usually a young girl gets infatuated with the serviceman and in turn the Man's penicular device takes over and there you go. The Recruiter breaks it off, the young, immature girl gets enraged and we have cases like this. I would never question these girl's story, but I will say that in every case I ever heard of, it was a teeny-bopper girl that fell for the older Recruiter and it got nasty when the fun was over. This stuff really gives the service a black eye.
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Post by Bo Riddick »

bigmo66 wrote:"...claiming that the corps "fosters and condones'' sexual assaults by recruiters."

That's pure Bullsheet! Recruiters are beat over the head with "Do NOT TOUCH an APPLICANT!" time and time again. Recruiters know this is a career ending move. I saw at least 2 Recruiters go down for having sexual relations with applicants. It happens mind you, but it isn't condoned. That statement is moronic. Usually a young girl gets infatuated with the serviceman and in turn the Man's penicular device takes over and there you go. The Recruiter breaks it off, the young, immature girl gets enraged and we have cases like this. I would never question these girl's story, but I will say that in every case I ever heard of, it was a teeny-bopper girl that fell for the older Recruiter and it got nasty when the fun was over. This stuff really gives the service a black eye.
It's easy to accuse, and even easier for the media (with its agenda) to spin, and sensationalize it. Read the SFGate article posted by cyber and the article posted by me. Large difference in the way the two news souces portrayed the issue.

The truth is still out there.........nothing but accusations so far.
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Post by downhill »

Guys.........your wasting your time on someone trying to stir the pot...
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Post by cyberskye »

bigmo66 wrote:"...claiming that the corps "fosters and condones'' sexual assaults by recruiters."

That's pure Bullsheet! Recruiters are beat over the head with "Do NOT TOUCH an APPLICANT!" time and time again. Recruiters know this is a career ending move. I saw at least 2 Recruiters go down for having sexual relations with applicants. It happens mind you, but it isn't condoned. That statement is moronic. Usually a young girl gets infatuated with the serviceman and in turn the Man's penicular device takes over and there you go. The Recruiter breaks it off, the young, immature girl gets enraged and we have cases like this. I would never question these girl's story, but I will say that in every case I ever heard of, it was a teeny-bopper girl that fell for the older Recruiter and it got nasty when the fun was over. This stuff really gives the service a black eye.
I don't think this is representative of the military. I DO think it points out the need to be extra cautious dealing with impressionable young'ns. Back in the day, kids had to experience life as they grew up. Kids today are so sheltered that 'adult' should be somewhere around 23yo, not 18.


Not against kids being given the option to enlist - even at school. The military should be held to a higher standard, and these sorts of things have happened - whether this case is legit.
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:wth:
Blisster wrote:It *would* be brokeback bay if I in fact went and hung out with Skye and co (did I mention he is teh hotness?)
:wth:
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Post by Bo Riddick »

downhill wrote:Guys.........your wasting your time on someone trying to stir the pot...

Are you so afraid of my views on subjects that you are going to try to marginalize me in a attempt discredit my views?


That really looks bad for the Speedgude team. That you, as a moderator would forward your personal agenda in such a way.
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Post by cyberskye »

Bo Riddick wrote:Are you so afraid of my views on subjects that you are going to try to marginalize me in a attempt discredit my views?


That really looks bad for the Speedgude team. That you, as a moderator would forward your personal agenda in such a way.
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anything is possible - nothing is free

:wth:
Blisster wrote:It *would* be brokeback bay if I in fact went and hung out with Skye and co (did I mention he is teh hotness?)
:wth:
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Post by Bo Riddick »

cyberskye wrote:Cawefuw, bunny wabbit - thine language doth giveth thee away
Well I find it odd that due to the fact that I MAY hold a view different from Downhills, he's willing to openly attempt to paint me with the wide brush, so to speak.
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Post by downhill »

Bo Riddick wrote:Well I find it odd that due to the fact that I MAY hold a view different from Downhills, he's willing to openly attempt to paint me with the wide brush, so to speak.
Eh? BS....

Post what you will...only keep from insuting others.

They are as entilted to their view as you are to yours. If you can't do that, then ask your girlfriend from posting for you.
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Post by David »

Bo Riddick wrote:Well I find it odd that due to the fact that I MAY hold a view different from Downhills, he's willing to openly attempt to paint me with the wide brush, so to speak.

What is your point? Generalizations abound, my good friend.

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Post by JawZ »

thepieman wrote:Several years ago I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly. You could pretty much join and make your terms and choose your path if you bargained right. Now ...I don't think things are the same as they were 7-8 years ago.

???


Were you on active duty 7-8 years ago?

I've been on active duty for twice that long and NOTHING has changed.

"choose your path"????

How about, service before self?

As for opportunities, there are more. But again, as it's always been, service before self.
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Post by downhill »

Bo Riddick wrote:Are you so afraid of my views on subjects that you are going to try to marginalize me in a attempt discredit my views?


That really looks bad for the Speedgude team. That you, as a moderator would forward your personal agenda in such a way.

LOL!!!!!!!

Why do you hide behind another persona?
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Post by downhill »

Bo Riddick wrote:Well I find it odd that due to the fact that I MAY hold a view different from Downhills, he's willing to openly attempt to paint me with the wide brush, so to speak.
Dude..flat out. I could care less about this view point.

Get over yourself. The thing is....your a well respected liberal, trying to cause bs on the forum. Don't make me expose you.
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Post by Bo Riddick »

Hell_Yes wrote:What is your point? Generalizations abound, my good friend.

Downhills responses to my posting tonight speaks for itself.

He has accused me of things yet fails to provide any kind of proof. I feel he is embolden to do such a thing only because of his status on the board (moderator), at least that is how it looks to me now after this evening.

Labeling me as a "troll", only having a "Agenda" to "stir the pot"

Clearly looking at the responses to my earlier post this evening, at the hatefull responses, and then seeing Downhills openess in attacking me. I am left with one conclusion. He doesn't welcome views that differ from his own, and will work to paint me with broad descriptive strokes in a attempt to marginalize my views due to me only being "troll" like.
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Post by Bo Riddick »

downhill wrote:Dude..flat out. I could care less about this view point.

Get over yourself. The thing is....your a well respected liberal, trying to cause bs on the forum. Don't make me expose you.

Please provide proof of this accusation.....


you are shamefull.
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Post by JawZ »

Meggie wrote:Im actually really sad to hear u say that, because that means that you honestly believe that the military isn't beneficial. Personally i learned more in the military then i have in any of my civilian schooling. Ive learned stuff that helps me in the real world more then geometry ever will. That kid thats doing patrols in iraq, and putting off college for a year is learning self control, personal responsibility, attention to detail, leadership skills, and so many other qualities. When he gets back he wont be the freshman in college not going to class and being overwhelmed by the workload. Ive seen it personally. I did a year of college and my GPA was 1.0 I had no direction, no responsibility. I went to basic training and my advanced individual training (that was harder then any college course i ever took) and came back and went back to college and my GPA went up to a 3.2

Im not the only one either, ive seen it with a lot of kids. My unit is very close to bridgeport, a really ****ty city in CT. a lot of the kids that the recruiters bring in really have no chance at college, their parents are poor, theyre poor and they all just accept the fact that they will be like that their whole lives. They all seem to have 1 or 2 kids by the time they are 20, work in some minimum wage job, have no real skills. The military gives them max 20,000$ to sign up. Then sends them to basic training where they learn that this isnt the street, this isnt the ghetto, they learn to deal with having some big guy get in their face and are unable to pull out a weapon and retaliate like they would do on the street, they learn how to deal with working and cooperating with people from all races, from all walks of life, from all over the country. Then the military sends them to a trade school, where they learn how to drive trucks (get their CDL) or how to be a carpenter, a medic, military police, or any rage of other jobs and they are paid well while they are there.

Now that same individual comes back, has money for his family, maybe to move out of the bad neighborhood, he now has a trade that he can apply to a better job then cashiere at walmart, now he can go to college for free, not to mention all the underlying skills that he learned throughout the training, and the personal pride that he has just knowing that he has done something with his life, hes a soldier, he can put on the uniform and be a hero to his kids.

Thats what i see on a daily basis. To be completely honest, the high class, white, rich kid from a wealthy family is not your typical kid to join the military. Im not saying that its right, but the people that are joining are usually not on the road to great things and this side tracks that. These kids that are joining are usually heading in the wrong direction and this gives them the oportunity to make something of themselves. Let me tell u that 19 year old kid that may spend a year doing patrols in iraq, will come back with more worldy experience and knowledge then the average middle aged man that has sat in a cubicle his whole life, sure he went to a good college and got a high paying job... but i would choose the life of the soldier over the cubicle rat anyday.


Rock on Meggie.... :thumb:


I think that this was one of your best posts that I have read.
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Post by thepieman »

UOD wrote:???


Were you on active duty 7-8 years ago?

I've been on active duty for twice that long and NOTHING has changed.

"choose your path"????

How about, service before self?

As for opportunities, there are more. But again, as it's always been, service before self.
Well I dunno ..going by their PR campaign it seems to be the message of self. See the world, learn new things, get money for college. Not my fault thats how they put out their message or make it appear.

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Post by JawZ »

downhill wrote:Dude..flat out. I could care less about this view point.

Get over yourself. The thing is....your a well respected liberal, trying to cause bs on the forum. Don't make me expose you.

Well.........what are you waiting for lol?

EXPOSE DEEPTHROAT DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
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Bo Riddick
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Post by Bo Riddick »

UOD wrote:Well.........what are you waiting for lol?

EXPOSE DEEPTHROAT DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

I concure.

Please Downhill, what must happen for you to post your flights of fancy about me.


You have my permission to post who you think I am, unless it's just a ruse to try to further marginalize me. Then you do not have my permission.
Member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.
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David
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Post by David »

thepieman wrote:Well I dunno ..going by their PR campaign it seems to be the message of self. See the world, learn new things, get money for college. Not my fault thats how they put out their message or make it appear.

Pie

It is for a targetted audience.

Hell_Yes

Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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JawZ
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Post by JawZ »

thepieman wrote: Not my fault thats how they put out their message or make it appear.

Pie
There is no fault to be found in the message.

I find your choice of words to be, interesting.

When you say..."they put out their message", I wonder why you see a division at all. I see the us vs. them argument.

I am on your side Pie. I'm an American and would be proud to stand by you even if it's in disagreement.

The military is trying to do right. They CRAM education down all our throats on a constant basis. I think it's great because in the end, we get more productive citizens. Education is even more of a factor in promotion these days.

All I can say is, every basic trainee graduate wanted to graduate. Trainees have every opportunity to drop out. So if they feel they were fed a BS lie through the recruitment process, they have every opportunity to bug out. there are no video games in basic training.
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For a little brevity...

Post by cyberskye »

...there's always time for HasselHoff

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anything is possible - nothing is free

:wth:
Blisster wrote:It *would* be brokeback bay if I in fact went and hung out with Skye and co (did I mention he is teh hotness?)
:wth:
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