SCotUSA upholds "no military recruiting; no money" law

[Bo Riddick]

3 cheers for the Supreme Court. By an 8-0 vote they upheld the law that says if you take Federal money, you can't block military recruiters on campus. The University and law school hypocrites will have to put up or shut up.



http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0307/p02s01-usju.html

Military officials might have to run a bigger gantlet of protesters as they search for recruits on America's university campuses. But they no longer have to worry that they'll be shut out altogether because of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy related to gay members of the armed forces.

The Supreme Court ruled unanimously Monday that military recruiters must have the same kind of access as other employers coming onto campus to give out information and conduct job interviews, if the campus receives federal money. Most campuses rely on some share of the $35 billion the government channels each year to higher education.

[cyberskye]

3 cheers for the Supreme Court. By an 8-0 vote they upheld the law that says if you take Federal money, you can't block military recruiters on campus. The University and law school hypocrites will have to put up or shut up.



http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0307/p02s01-usju.html

Bitter? I notice you left out highschools and community colleges.

Interesting choice for first post on a technical site.

[MadDoctor]

Bitter? I notice you left out highschools and community colleges.

Interesting choice for first post on a technical site.

[thepieman]

3 cheers for the Supreme Court. By an 8-0 vote they upheld the law that says if you take Federal money, you can't block military recruiters on campus. The University and law school hypocrites will have to put up or shut up.



http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0307/p02s01-usju.html

Yeah! Screw an education for the kids! Lettem all enlist or be recruited before they finish school. Lets go a step further and make compulsive military training at age 18 for the legal right to vote and citizenship too. Yeah!

[Brk]

"Bo Rrriddick? You're name is Bo Rrrriddick? What's yer rrrreal name...beFORE ya changed it?"

[Meggie]

Yeah! Screw an education for the kids! Lettem all enlist or be recruited before they finish school. Lets go a step further and make compulsive military training at age 18 for the legal right to vote and citizenship too. Yeah!

...your right, its better that they get into heavy drugs, become pregnant at 16 or in juvi hall at 17..

Give me a break, most kids could learn a lot from even just a couple years in the military.

[Bo Riddick]

Bitter?

never,



rejoicing!

[thepieman]

...your right, its better that they get into heavy drugs, become pregnant at 16 or in juvi hall at 17..

Give me a break, most kids could learn a lot from even just a couple years in the military.

Plenty of people become addicted to drugs while in the military. Not to mention the high rate of alchoholism and drug addiction amongst veterans.
I know its your job and all to try to recruit people, but thats exactly why they shouldn't be allowed on campus to recruit until graduation. If you are going to try to recruit people at least be accurate in your reasoning for them leaving school. Besides...if they are pregnant or in juvi hall at least they would have all their limbs and not end up in a flag draped pine box.

Drug addicted US troops sent to Scotland for help




Iraq veterans in rehab with NHS patients
By Liam McDougall, Health Correspondent



A PICTURESQUE Scottish hospital is being used by the US military as a base to treat drug and alcohol addicted troops who have fought in Iraq, the Sunday Herald can reveal.
The US department of defence is sending up to 40 damaged servicemen and women a year &#8211]

http://www.sundayherald.com/47041


http://newsfromrussia.com/main/2003/12/05/51670.html Yeah its Pravda but its not wholly unbelievable. Afghanistan is after all , one of the worlds largest Heroin (Opium) suppliers in the world.

[YARDofSTUF]

All the parents that dont want recruiters to be allowed on campus should get together and come up with enough money so that the school(s) dont need federal funding.

I don't see anything wrong with recruiters being there, there are good careers in the militarty.

[YARDofSTUF]

Plenty of people become addicted to drugs while in the military. Not to mention the high rate of alchoholism and drug addiction amongst veterans.
I know its your job and all to try to recruit people, but thats exactly why they shouldn't be allowed on campus to recruit until graduation. If you are going to try to recruit people at least be accurate in your reasoning for them leaving school.

There are ways they can finish school and sign up, could help them out financially too.

Besides...if they are pregnant or in juvi hall at least they would have all their limbs and not end up in a flag draped pine box.

Ya all the **** ups from juvi are much better, can get buried just as quick too. And the pregnant 16 yearolds mooch off of our system and get tax payers money for spreading their legs, yup, thats better too.

[YeOldeStonecat]

Oh boy....hold on peeps...this one's about to expload....

[thepieman]

There are ways they can finish school and sign up, could help them out financially too.



Ya all the **** ups from juvi are much better, can get buried just as quick too. And the pregnant 16 yearolds mooch off of our system and get tax payers money for spreading their legs, yup, thats better too.

Several years ago I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly. You could pretty much join and make your terms and choose your path if you bargained right. Now ...I don't think things are the same as they were 7-8 years ago.

[Meggie]

Plenty of people become addicted to drugs while in the military. Not to mention the high rate of alchoholism and drug addiction amongst veterans.
I know its your job and all to try to recruit people, but thats exactly why they shouldn't be allowed on campus to recruit until graduation. If you are going to try to recruit people at least be accurate in your reasoning for them leaving school. Besides...if they are pregnant or in juvi hall at least they would have all their limbs and not end up in a flag draped pine box.



http://www.sundayherald.com/47041


http://newsfromrussia.com/main/2003/12/05/51670.html Yeah its Pravda but its not wholly unbelievable. Afghanistan is after all , one of the worlds largest Heroin (Opium) suppliers in the world.

in the national guard they offer programs that let kids go to basic training during the summer of their junior year, then come back and do their senior year. What i dont think your realizing is that most if not all military branches require a highschool deploma to get in. So recruiters arent there to take them out of school, they are just trying to get them right after they get out of school.

Also military pays for college for some kids that may never have been able to go before.. Personally im grateful that im not like a lot of the kids i went to highschool with, and drowning in student loans.

research it a little before u jump on the bandwagon and claim that this is bad for our kids.

[thepieman]

I don't need to do research. I been around for 45years and have seen my fair share of predatory recruiters and have heard many stories from personal friends. Im not a teenager. The story that follows is not something thats happened for the first time either. Their next step is hooking up tricked out Humvees with custom sound systems and Flat screen monitors with video games in the back to try to appeal to the kids. (No joke)

How Far Will Army Recruiters Go?


Seventeen-year-old high school journalist and honor student David McSwane is just what Army recruiters are looking for, but he suspected they might be lowering their standards, reports Rick Sallinger of CBS News Denver affiliate KCNC.

"I wanted to see how far the army would go during a war to get one more soldier," McSwane said.

So he showed up at a Golden Colorado recruiting office saying he was a dropout.

No problem, the recruiter said — and told McSwane in a phone call he recorded — to create a fake diploma from a non-existent school.

"It can be like Faith Hill Baptist School or something — whatever you choose," the recruiter said.

So McSwane went on-line, got a phony grade transcript and a diploma with the name of the school the recruiter suggested and turned it in.

"I was shocked. I'm sitting there looking at a poster that says 'Integrity, Honor, Respect,' and he is telling me to lie," McSwane said.

Then the high school senior told the recruiter:

"I have a problem with drugs. I can't kick the habit — just marijuana."

The recruiter suggested purchasing a detoxification kit.

"The two times I had the guys use it — it's worked both times. We didn't have to worry about anything," the recruiter said.

McSwane had a friend take a video as another recruiter, Sgt. Tim Pickel, took him to buy the so-called detox kit.

(CBS)
Sallinger confronted Sgt. Pickel with a phone conversation David McSwane said he had before they went to the store.

On tape:

Sgt Pickel: "When you said about the one problem that you had...what does it consist of?"

McSwane: "Marijuana."

Pickel: "Oh. OK. So nothing major?"

McSwane: "Yeah he said he would take me down to get that stuff. I mean I have no idea what it is so you would have to show me. Is that a problem?"

Pickel: "No, not at all."

Sgt. Pickel quickly referred us to his superiors.

Lt. Colonel Jeffrey Brodeur who heads Army recruiting for the Colorado region did not defend the recruiters.

"Let me tell you something sir. I'm a soldier and have been a soldier for 20 years," Broderu said. "This violates trust, it violates integrity, it violates honor, and it violates duty."

The two soldiers involved have already been suspended from recruiting duties. They could face anything from a letter of reprimand to a court martial if they are not cleared by the investigation.

[Joint Chiefs of Staff]

GI Bill = GOOD!

[vinnie]

It was after discussion with recruiters on my campus regarding my eyes that I started seriously considering it a possibility. Now... I've just worked 9 days straight, with a 14 hour day today... but it's been wearing the uniform I always wanted to be wearing.

Recruiting is great. I approve.

[YeOldeStonecat]

The story that follows is not something thats happened for the first time either.

Does that mean the Army endorses that? Or does it mean there are a few bad apples out there. People are people, there is a big mixture of them out there...a few bad apples can be found in any field/topic you examine.

I've seen some shifty computer techs...here's a recent firsthand experience I recently came across....in talking to a tech that worked for someone else. A client we took over from them....they knew about a virus from a previous onsite they did...and intentionally left it there...with the goal of letting it spread across the network..so they would get called back in a few days with lots more billable hours.

Do the actions of a few so called computer techs, with a used car salesman mentality, mean that all computer techs are bad? Should I use that example to generalize the entire field?

[YeOldeStonecat]

And "Congrats to Meggie" on the 9K mark!

[Joint Chiefs of Staff]

And "Congrats to Meggie" on the 9K mark!

No giveback please, thank you very much. lol

[Meggie]

I don't need to do research. I been around for 45years and have seen my fair share of predatory recruiters and have heard many stories from personal friends. Im not a teenager. The story that follows is not something thats happened for the first time either. Their next step is hooking up tricked out Humvees with custom sound systems and Flat screen monitors with video games in the back to try to appeal to the kids. (No joke)

im aware of the story, and its a bad recruiter, there are lots of bad recruiters, salesmen, pie salesmen. (not saying u are, just saying there is bad in everyjob)

Everyone uses that one example to show a bad recruiter.. The ones that i work with as well as the majority of them are not representory of that individual.

As far as them having a tricked out humvee. yea they do. To appeal to kids? maybe.. but so what? Its not like they can recruit 10 year old or 12 year olds..

You make these recruiters out to be a joe camel.. trying to get kids to start early.. get them hooked on it.. like its a bad thing. Truthfully the military should be seen as an opportunity for the small number of individuals that are eligible. you should see the percentage of 18-30 year olds that cant meet one or more of the standards.. i saw probably 5-10 kids in the past month that wanted to join but were not able to due to medical, legal, reasons or not being able to pass the ASVAB (the written test given to determine if you can join)

Joining the military is the best thing that i have ever done with my life, when i talk to these kids i tell them that.. They know exactly what they are getting into when they sign the paperwork. These recruiters are not all these crooked, imoral, only out for themselves villians that everyone makes them out to be.

[Meggie]

No giveback please, thank you very much. lol

what u want to see brents penis? ok check ur inbox.

[Joint Chiefs of Staff]

what u want to see brents penis? ok check ur inbox.

[Leatherneck]

The Military needs good people. There are good people on school campus. There are also tremendous opportunities that allow both service and school at the same time. Most of these young adults are quite capable of making dicisions for themselves and are well aware of the situation. People are what they are. If a kid is a turd before he enters the service, chances are he will be a turd while serving. There are always exceptions and it's great to see a young person mature and become a responsible citizen while in the military. Most of these young folks are good people that are serving a vital role in the defense of our nation. These days drugs are so rampant among young kids that most are exposed to drugs way before the age of 18 and if they are users, they bring it with them in the military. Alcohol use the same except of course they become legal while serving giving them even more access. I literally saw it all in my 20+ years in the Corps. Success, failures, triumphs and tragedies. I was also a recruiter for 3 of those years in provo, Utah. Give these young folks some credit for being able to make their own decisions.

[knightmare]

who do military recruiters target? What portion of the population is most likely to join?

[tao_jones]

I dont really see a problem with recruiters on campus. Its the individuals choice if they sign up or not.


That said I have spoken to more than one shaddy recruiter.

[David]

All the parents that dont want recruiters to be allowed on campus should get together and come up with enough money so that the school(s) dont need federal funding.

I don't see anything wrong with recruiters being there, there are good careers in the militarty.

Um..... Where do you think that federal money comes from?

That said, it is irrelevent, as long as it is a choice to enlist.

[knightmare]

Sharon Shea-Keneally, principal of Mount Anthony Union High School in Bennington, Vermont, was shocked when she received a letter in May from military recruiters demanding a list of all her students, including names, addresses, and phone numbers. The school invites recruiters to participate in career days and job fairs, but like most school districts, it keeps student information strictly confidential. "We don't give out a list of names of our kids to anybody," says Shea-Keneally, "not to colleges, churches, employers -- nobody."

But when Shea-Keneally insisted on an explanation, she was in for an even bigger surprise: The recruiters cited the No Child Left Behind Act, President Bush's sweeping new education law passed earlier this year. There, buried deep within the law's 670 pages, is a provision requiring public secondary schools to provide military recruiters not only with access to facilities, but also with contact information for every student -- or face a cutoff of all federal aid.


Prior to this provision, one-third of the nation’s high schools refused recruiters’ requests for students’ names or access to campus because they believed it was inappropriate for educational institutions to promote military service.

[Ghosthunter]

i agree with the supreme court, dont see the big deal

these people in college over 18 right? they can make their own decisions. they not forcing people to join unless that changed?

[YeOldeStonecat]

who do military recruiters target? What portion of the population is most likely to join?

I'd say it's across the board. I went to a private college prep high school...I remember the recruiting there...I even entertained the Navy and Air Force recruiters myself for a bit.

[David]

To whom does this money belong?

[thepieman]

You make these recruiters out to be a joe camel.. trying to get kids to start early.. get them hooked on it.. like its a bad thing. Truthfully the military should be seen as an opportunity for the small number of individuals that are eligible. you should see the percentage of 18-30 year olds that cant meet one or more of the standards.. i saw probably 5-10 kids in the past month that wanted to join but were not able to due to medical, legal, reasons or not being able to pass the ASVAB (the written test given to determine if you can join)

Joining the military is the best thing that i have ever done with my life, when i talk to these kids i tell them that.. They know exactly what they are getting into when they sign the paperwork. These recruiters are not all these crooked, imoral, only out for themselves villians that everyone makes them out to be.

Its funny how the government singles out Alcohol and Tobacco ads as being appealing to minors and young adults but yet a tricked out humvee with a boombox stereo and a truck full of electronics does not..Please spare me the recruiter propaganda. Its the same crap.

That story I posted was not the only story thats out there its just that its not worth my time to go looking for all the crap thats out there. If its bad enough that the taxpayers are bitching about it, then they should at least respect their wishes. Not to mention that ANY employer in the United states is required by law to accept anyone based on their gender, race or sexual orientation and the Military even tho it acts like a regular employer does not uphold those same rules. You were saying the other day how you thought it was unfair about not being able to get married if someone was gay, yet if you are gay the Military won't accept you. EOE they aren't. They don't deserve equal standing when it comes to Corporate Recruiters like other businesses I'm sorry.

[Izzo]

To whom does this money belong?

ooh oooh I know I know

[Leatherneck]

You were saying the other day how you thought it was unfair about not being able to get married if someone was gay, yet if you are gay the Military won't accept you. EOE they aren't. They don't deserve equal standing when it comes to Corporate Recruiters like other businesses I'm sorry.

I don't agree. being Gay is not like being Hispanic or Black no matter how one might try and spin it. The military is a place where life and death depends on your fellow serviceman in ability & confidence. If just a handful of service men would be uncomfortable to a detrimental point by being "forced" into sharing close quarters or any intimate setting with a homosexual then it could detract from success and cause serious problems. Not necessarily the same as a homosexual in the next cubicle over at the call center. I am certain however, that there are many homosexuals that are quite capable of serving with honor and committment. It seems that certain situations, all folks really want is the choice, recognition or exposure which can be selfish.

The Military is not a democracy nor should it be. If a person can't except the requirements & regulations then seek other employment. If the Government sees fit to change these rules & regs then so be it. The "Moral Levees" will burst soon enough ,but until then tough.

[cyberskye]

I don't agree. being Gay is not like being Hispanic or Black no matter how one might try and spin it. The military is a place where life and death depends on your fellow serviceman in ability & confidence. If just a handful of service men would be uncomfortable to a detrimental point by being "forced" into sharing close quarters or any intimate setting with a homosexual then it could detract from success and cause serious problems. Not necessarily the same as a homosexual in the next cubicle over at the call center. I am certain however, that there are many homosexuals that are quite capable of serving with honor and committment. It seems that certain situations, all folks really want is the choice, recognition or exposure which can be selfish.

The Military is not a democracy nor should it be. If a person can't except the requirements & regulations then seek other employment. If the Government sees fit to change these rules & regs then so be it. The "Moral Levees" will burst soon enough ,but until then tough.

Wow - welcome to 1954.

I don't understand how so many people that are not gay can explain exactly what it means to be gay and why one may be gay.

Based on your logic tho, keeping blacks and hispanics out of the military is ok - it's not a democracy and good ole southern boys might not be ready for anyone to come out of the cotton fields and serve with them...and I still don't get why the women folk can't realize that they belong barefoot in the kitchen

Wow.

[thepieman]

I don't agree. being Gay is not like being Hispanic or Black no matter how one might try and spin it. The military is a place where life and death depends on your fellow serviceman in ability & confidence. If just a handful of service men would be uncomfortable to a detrimental point by being "forced" into sharing close quarters or any intimate setting with a homosexual then it could detract from success and cause serious problems. Not necessarily the same as a homosexual in the next cubicle over at the call center. I am certain however, that there are many homosexuals that are quite capable of serving with honor and committment. It seems that certain situations, all folks really want is the choice, recognition or exposure which can be selfish.

The Military is not a democracy nor should it be. If a person can't except the requirements & regulations then seek other employment. If the Government sees fit to change these rules & regs then so be it. The "Moral Levees" will burst soon enough ,but until then tough.

I tell you what...Open up a business, and decline the person because he's gay and lets see how long it takes the Atty. General, Labor department or whoever is in charge of Equal Opportunity Employment, plus Civil suit lawyers, Gay rights groups and lets see how long you stay in business for.
From the way you are talking you make it sound like there haven't been gay people in the military before.

[Leatherneck]

I tell you what...Open up a business, and decline the person because he's gay and lets see how long it takes the Atty. General, Labor department or whoever is in charge of Equal Opportunity Employment, plus Civil suit lawyers, Gay rights groups and lets see how long you stay in business for.
From the way you are talking you make it sound like there haven't been gay people in the military before.

I know there are, have been & will continue to be Gay people in the military.
My opinion was strictly related to the military. I don't equate the US Military with Burger King. As a matter of fact, the military is very concious of equal opportunity and it is more prevelant than ever. EEO is plastered on every wall & calender in every building and all service members are constantly recieving classes and training on said subject! I also know that even if the military is forced to allow openly gay people to enlist, you still have to battle the individual Soldier, Marine, Airman or Sailor's mentality. I've seen first hand what a detractor it can be. When someone is found out to be gay, there are people that refuse to accept that person and it can have a profound impact on morale be it right or wrong. So what is the answer? You may think that the Military should be no different than Burger King and that is your opinion. I personally don't have a strong opinion, but just stating some of the things that can happen in the military. Maybe our country is archaic in these things? I think the Israelis, Men & Women all shower together

[thepieman]

So what is the answer? You may think that the Military should be no different than Burger King and that is your opinion. I personally don't have a strong opinion, but just stating some of the things that can happen in the military. Maybe our country is archaic in these things? I think the Israelis, Men & Women all shower together

I am saying exactly the opposite of that. Since they are not like a regular business that routinely recruits students on campus grounds that they should not be given equal access as a regular business is given. As you suggest its not a business as some people would try to equate it to as an excuse for giving equal access to Military recruiters on College campuses.

Have you seen some of those Israeli chicks...wooohoo HOT. I wouldn't mind communal showers with them either.

[Leatherneck]

I am saying exactly the opposite of that. Since they are not like a regular business that routinely recruits students on campus grounds that they should not be given equal access as a regular business is given. As you suggest its not a business as some people would try to equate it to as an excuse for giving equal access to Military recruiters on College campuses.

Have you seen some of those Israeli chicks...wooohoo HOT. I wouldn't mind communal showers with them either.

Why could I be arrested for using the Women's restroom? That's gender discrimination. I could be labeled a perv or sexual deviant. We have some issues to iron out for sure.

[Meggie]

I am saying exactly the opposite of that. Since they are not like a regular business that routinely recruits students on campus grounds that they should not be given equal access as a regular business is given. As you suggest its not a business as some people would try to equate it to as an excuse for giving equal access to Military recruiters on College campuses.

Have you seen some of those Israeli chicks...wooohoo HOT. I wouldn't mind communal showers with them either.

would you want to shower with someone who is openly gay? The issue is not a moral one.. the military isnt saying that its wrong to be gay, they are just saying that with quarters being as close as they are in the military being gay may cause uneeded stress on both sides. I think the showering thing is the main thing that makes it different then any/most other jobs.

But now your just reaching for reasons to disagree.. do you disagree with recruiters being in schools because u think they are trying to rob young children of an education or because they dont allow openly gay homosexuals?

As im sure you already know, the military does allow gay people. It just so on the 'dont ask, dont tell' policy. You can be gay all you want, but you cant run around the baracks in nothing but your little brown breifs talking about how you want to bone that hot sergeant bigness..

And again about the tricked out humvee... i agreed it is being used to attract kids.. but so what if the 10 year old kid likes it. It does no harm to him, if it attracts an 18 year old to join, then so what?

[cyberskye]

would you want to shower with someone who is openly gay? The issue is not a moral one.. the military isnt saying that its wrong to be gay, they are just saying that with quarters being as close as they are in the military being gay may cause uneeded stress on both sides. I think the showering thing is the main thing that makes it different then any/most other jobs.

But now your just reaching for reasons to disagree.. do you disagree with recruiters being in schools because u think they are trying to rob young children of an education or because they dont allow openly gay homosexuals?

As im sure you already know, the military does allow gay people. It just so on the 'dont ask, dont tell' policy. You can be gay all you want, but you cant run around the baracks in nothing but your little brown breifs talking about how you want to bone that hot sergeant bigness..

And again about the tricked out humvee... i agreed it is being used to attract kids.. but so what if the 10 year old kid likes it. It does no harm to him, if it attracts an 18 year old to join, then so what?

My secondary school we shared locker rooms - we changed with girls, but the showers were separate.

What's to prevent the kids at school from showering with people openly gay? I always wondered why military guys can't handle what all highschool boys have to...I don't mean for that to offend anyone in the military, I just don't get it.

If they use the "You get federal money you must allow us to recruit." arguement, then I think equal rights should be a requirement.

You can be here as long as you deny what you are...seems kinda unamerican to me. Then again, those who can kill someone they don't know...can't imagine what that takes or how it affects people.