Which is the right choice?

Altema · Post by **Altema** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:13 pm

Okay, I am writing this because my family is in an argument, and they want other opinions.

My family income will be falling tremendously because my mom will be selling her business. This leaves my father's income to be our only source of income. He does not make a high amount of money, and we will be left to survive until my mom gets another job. My father has been putting in about 80$ a week into his 401k for many years, and my mom wishes for him to stop so that we can have money to eat. He wants to continue to do so because the 401k matches what we put in, but my mom wants to stop because we will be hardpressed to afford even the most basic lifestyle. So what is the best choice here? Continue contributing to the 401k because of matching or cease the 401k until my mom gets another job so that we may have the basics in life? Btw, even with an extra 80$ we still can not afford to pay everything. We will have to be really tight on our budget just to break even with his full paycheck.

Thanks alot everyone.

MissTynker2 · Post by **MissTynker2** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:19 pm

I would say that would depend on the circumstances here. Do you expect it to be a long time before another position of employment is gotten? If so...I would say of course do all you can to make life comfortable for the family..and stop the 401K temporarily...it can always be changed back at a later date when things are more reasonable

Altema · Post by **Altema** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:27 pm

My mom wants a break from working for a couple of months and the money received from the business can suffice for that time. (My mom has worked backbreaking labor 12+ hours a day for the last 12 years so no one objects to a deserved vacation). But life doesnt go as we plan. She may be unemployed for longer or shorter.

MissTynker2 · Post by **MissTynker2** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:30 pm

Altema wrote:My mom wants a break from working for a couple of months and the money received from the business can suffice for that time. (My mom has worked backbreaking labor 12+ hours a day for the last 12 years so no one objects to a deserved vacation). But life doesnt go as we plan. She may be unemployed for longer or shorter.

Me thinks ya just answered your own question

Altema · Post by **Altema** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:34 pm

My dad insisted that I asked you guys

. Despite your answer, he still doesnt want to do it =P.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:03 pm

Are you old enough to work fulltime? Maybe you can work part time?

minir · Post by **minir** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:12 pm

Hi Altema

I'd continue investing. Once you break a habit it is tough getting back in the groove.

As to your Mom, though she has worked hard it would seem now is not the time to be thinking of a rest period if things are as close as you suggest. She needs to find a job ASAP and that in itself might take a bit of time anyway.

I don't know you age or situation, but perhaps you can find work on a part time basis to help out by at least being able to support your own expenses.

Your Parents need to look at their overall budget and make cuts where possible. Things like 2 phones, multi channel TV etc can add up in a hurry.

Good Luck to you & your Folks. I hope everything works out well.

--

regards

minir

Altema · Post by **Altema** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:20 pm

She is taking a vacation, but I forgot to mention it is also to research other business opportunities such as real estate. She also wants to get some medicinal help, since it is cheaper elsewhere. I forgot to mention the vacation, isnt really a vacation.

I am planning to search for another job tomorrow. I will pay my own stuff and contribute what I can for this family. And just for the record. I've been working fulltime for my mom to make sure she can continue to do the business she just sold. She cant do it anymore, even with my help. (I have also been doing school fulltime, so I am pulling my share

)

Investing was never a thing this family avoided. Our business allowed us to keep investing, so it is not like once we stop we will never do it again. We are just going to be tight on money, so I dont see how investing is still a wise choice. If we had enough money, sure, but we wont

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:39 pm

Why close the business? Can't you run it or hire someone who is capable to manage it so the income keeps coming in?

Pie

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:44 pm

look at cutbacks first ... do all of you have cellphones? ... all the movie channels .... higher priced internet ... certain expenditures you can quit such as eating out every saturday night ... the person who drives the farthest everyday take the most economical car to save gas ...

Altema · Post by **Altema** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:10 pm

The business is a bread franchise and hiring someone is too unreliable and would yield very little income. We work off comission(sp) and workers don't work very well if they dont get some as well. Plus the job is physically demanding. It's not easy. When my mom puts on shirts, she is in pain because of it. Thats how bad she's gotten. The problem with hiring a worker to do the business is that 1. They wont work as hard as us meaning less money and 2. If they want to quit, who will run it?

My mom has calculated all of the stuff and it is still pretty short. She still has some cutting to do though. Can you survive with a 20k income with a family of 4?

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:35 pm

Altema wrote:The business is a bread franchise and hiring someone is too unreliable and would yield very little income. We work off comission(sp) and workers don't work very well if they dont get some as well. Plus the job is physically demanding. It's not easy. When my mom puts on shirts, she is in pain because of it. Thats how bad she's gotten. The problem with hiring a worker to do the business is that 1. They wont work as hard as us meaning less money and 2. If they want to quit, who will run it?

My mom has calculated all of the stuff and it is still pretty short. She still has some cutting to do though. Can you survive with a 20k income with a family of 4?

Not everyone is a poor worker. I would be a little selective and possibly you can pick someone who is also hungry, needs a job and will work hard. If things were that bad, most Fast food franchises would never stay in business as the majority of them are never usually run by the owners themselves.

Pie

Altema · Post by **Altema** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:40 pm

This job is really hard to find people to do. No one wants to work 12 am to 11 am. When selling this route, we got like 20 phone calls and all of them did not want to work as soon as they heard the working times. Those who actually came out to see how the job was never called again afterwards. None of this is an option ><. If there was a way to save the income, we would have done it already.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:59 pm

Altema wrote:This job is really hard to find people to do. No one wants to work 12 am to 11 am. When selling this route, we got like 20 phone calls and all of them did not want to work as soon as they heard the working times. Those who actually came out to see how the job was never called again afterwards. None of this is an option ><. If there was a way to save the income, we would have done it already.

Dunno where you guys live but here in NYC the majority of the bread guys here work those same hours delivering bread even before the retaurants and delicatessans open up. The bread guy that has been delivering to our restaurant has been doing it for years and he works for a guy that owns several trucks. I guess maybe your town must have some well-to-do people that don't need work. Have you tried advertising in your local http://www.craigslist.org ?

Pie

Altema · Post by **Altema** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:14 pm

We deliver to supermarkets, and we have tried to find workers to do this job. We have a hard time finding replacement workers. Thats why in 12 years of this job, we have gone on vacation maybe twice. Even if we were to find a worker, that worker would destroy the value of this route. The bread route is based on how much you make the year before you sell it. The route is already sold and the papers just need to be signed. Believe me, I have tried to talk to my mom about that, but there are too many bad aspects of hiring someone.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:17 pm

Altema wrote:We deliver to supermarkets, and we have tried to find workers to do this job. We have a hard time finding replacement workers. Thats why in 12 years of this job, we have gone on vacation maybe twice. Even if we were to find a worker, that worker would destroy the value of this route. The bread route is based on how much you make the year before you sell it. The route is already sold and the papers just need to be signed. Believe me, I have tried to talk to my mom about that, but there are too many bad aspects of hiring someone.

Oh cool then...thought she was looking for a seller. I see. Well I hope she gets better soon and takes the time she needs to relax. Its not worth killing yourself over.

Pie

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:41 pm

Don't give up the 401K. My goodness...no matter how you slice the pie, that's a 100 percent return or better on your dads investment the first year alone.

Add to that the tax break he gets from it.

I don't see how he can afford to give that up at all.

Especially considering that there are those in congress and the whitehouse, that are willing to not only cut SS but to do away with it altogether.

emilyb · Post by **emilyb** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:46 pm

I think the best solution is to find cuts in other areas, but if there are none, I would stop the 401k temporarily. i don't know about your area, but here in TN, I could easily feed my family of 4 on $80 a week. Thats not to say there could be alot of name brands and extras, but not exactly beans and water either.

MissTynker2 · Post by **MissTynker2** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:48 pm

I would hope that the profits of the sale of the business itself would bring you in enough income to slide by on for awhile. As was previously mentioned however...there are numerous ways to cut back on several household items alone. Something as simple as lowering your thermostat on your heater, switching off unnecesary lighting...electric clocks, radios etc. Walk to places that you can, saving on gas...bill paying services on line, (smells good too! ) cutting postal costs, washing clothes and dishes in warm or cool water..not hot, line dry your clothes, take baths with low levels of tub water..not showers, add a water saver to your toilet tank, electric blanket? turn it off and add another blanket if needed, organize your trips to town for shopping needs or whatever so you can do them all at once instead of multiple trips...or if Dad is close to something you need...have him pick it up on his way home from work..or you from your way home from school so, turn your refrigerator temp up a notch. Join a carpool for school and or work, or maybe start one. Take a look around...you might be surprised at what you can either cut out or down on.

Good luck!

Altema · Post by **Altema** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:40 am

downhill wrote:Don't give up the 401K. My goodness...no matter how you slice the pie, that's a 100 percent return or better on your dads investment the first year alone.

Add to that the tax break he gets from it.

I don't see how he can afford to give that up at all.

I don't quite understand the reasoning behind maintaining a 401k if there is not enough money to support a family. Minir brought up the idea of a habit, but investing has never been something my family shyed away from. Lets say my dad makes 400 a week, and we need 500 a week to survive. You would still assume 100$ of debt each week just to maintain a 401k? (These are random numbers, and I am not sure how short we are.)

Feeding the family is one thing, but the other stuff costs money. Utilities, insurance, etc. My mom claims that she can feed our family with 20$ a week!

But yeah, you can be sure that all the necessary cuts will be made to accomodate one income.

Massa · Post by **Massa** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:48 am

What confuses me is what your Dad makes, for myself, as an untrained college student I can earn upwards of $14.00 an hour US in a random job around town. Is it not possible for your Dad to get a better paying job, such as construction?

Dave

Sarahnn · Post by **Sarahnn** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:34 am

Several alternatives. Mom and Dad could each take part-time work.

Mom could take part-time work and Dad give up only a fraction of his 401K to supplement the drop in wages.

Dad could freeze the 401K for exactly three months and then continue regardless of where Mom is in her job search.

Feed the family with the money used to take the trip.

Take out a loan to live on for the next three months.

Mom can hold on to the business until she has a part-time job waiting for her, which is what most of us do if we can.

Good luck.

Altema · Post by **Altema** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:47 pm

No idea if my father can get a better job. He works in a supermarket. You see many of those people whenever you go grocery shopping (aka old age and still working at a supermarket).

My mom will be getting a job, but in the mean time, the question is should we freeze it until we get another job or should we just continue to invest?
What I would like to know is how does investing in a 401k when you don’t have enough money for the family beneficial? Do the matching and tax breaks really make up for it? (The matching is 50%). So if we are in extended periods of unemployment, it is still beneficial to keep investing? My father won’t be able to even withdraw from his 401k for like 4-5 more years. If he does before 4-5 years, it will be taxed and penalized. It's just hard for me to conceptualize the idea of investing while we accumulate more and more debt. Please someone explain.

My mom needs the trip. If she doesn’t get it, I might as well shoot her now. Either she takes the trip or suffers a mental breakdown. Two vacations in 12 years. I think she deserves it no matter what happens to us. But like I said, it is not just for rest. She wants to get medical help and to find other business opportunities.

We would not need a loan as well. We will have some left over money through selling the business. My mom is not so careless as to let us go hungry while she goes on a trip.

Holding onto the business is not an option. If it was, we would keep it longer. My mom's legs hurt when she sits, she can’t lift things above her head, she can’t lift heavy objects, it hurts her to put on her clothes, and if she does anything involving her hands she will feel pain. That by itself will disqualify her to do normal household chores, and the business itself is 12 hours + of lifting trays of bread that weigh a minimum of 12lbs and a max of 20 lbs.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:01 pm

Altema wrote:Can you survive with a 20k income with a family of 4?

I would know, it's how i was raised until these last 2-3 years. You can do it, you'll just have to cut out everything possible.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:39 pm

Altema wrote: My mom's legs hurt when she sits, she can’t lift things above her head, she can’t lift heavy objects, it hurts her to put on her clothes, and if she does anything involving her hands she will feel pain. That by itself will disqualify her to do normal household chores, and the business itself is 12 hours + of lifting trays of bread that weigh a minimum of 12lbs and a max of 20 lbs.

Hummm...to me, that looks like disability.

Cerberus1027 · Post by **Cerberus1027** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:30 am

If your moms is (no offense intended) as useless as you seem to think she is then I believe downhill is right she is disabled and there for eligible for government benefits. Look into those government benefits they would help substantially in feeding your family and helping your mother get better.
And if you need the $80 to feed your family and I mean really really need the $80 to feed your family then you should use it to feed your family. Your first responsibility as a parent is to provide food shelter and clothing to your children if you can't give your kids that you deserve nothing. There is always a way to provide for your family. Sorry if I sound like an *********.

SpareX · Post by **SpareX** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:51 am

There is a really big perk to keep investing in a 401k or other retirement fund....

Tax credit. all that money you put into it, counts as an extra deductable in your taxes, and belive me. so your looking at 80 a week... hmm crunching math..
......
80x52.. 4160...

I didn't realize it myself until this last tax season but that 401k adds up fast.. I invested into mine at about 30 a week or so.. for almost a year.. changing it a few times when money was getting tight or when i was jumping around dept to dept and stuck at PT without 401k entitlements(unable to invest into unless FT when I was working at BBY) for a month or 2..

It takes ALOT of budgeting.. and you lose aLOT of luxuries. but YES you can get a family of 4 to live off of 20k/year. hell my mom made less than that and supported me, my brother, and his best friend that go kicked out, for a year.. we had local TV, no cable.. no internet, and we did everything to make ends meet.. and we did it..

I say.. Stay with the 401k.. the tax benefits alone help.. ALOT.. Sale of personal business is income, its gotta be reported.. if its alot.. guess what.. your gonna have to pay.. that 401k will add a nice buffer to save some money come tax time...