Ohio is now a papers please state...

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:35 pm

Bastard politicians. It's a violation of the 4th Amendment, so refuse when your name or ID is demanded arbitrarily by the police.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181382,00.html

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:40 pm

The law also requires those applying for state driver's licenses to sign a form that they haven't supported terrorist organizations.

What a joke... As if getting anything done at the dmv didnt already take enough time.

Mactron · Post by **Mactron** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:58 pm

WoW !!! Ohio is a hotbed of terrorism... Who Knew ?

IRS · Post by **IRS** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:03 pm

Burke wrote:Bastard politicians. It's a violation of the 4th Amendment, so refuse when your name or ID is demanded arbitrarily by the police.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181382,00.html

Whats the big deal, every time I get pulled over by a cop they want "my papers"
Heck if I'm on the bike most of the time I get the cop on the pa saying keep your hands on the handle bars and do not put the kick stand down, I really see no big deal here maybe a bit of a inconvenience but come on.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:53 pm

IRS wrote:Whats the big deal, every time I get pulled over by a cop they want "my papers"
Heck if I'm on the bike most of the time I get the cop on the pa saying keep your hands on the handle bars and do not put the kick stand down, I really see no big deal here maybe a bit of a inconvenience but come on.

Not a big deal if you're doing something wrong then get caught........very big deal for them to walk up to me and just ask if i'm doing nothing. It's none of their damn business who I am if i'm just walking down the street....this gives them the ability to arrest you if you fail to do so under any circumstance.

IRS · Post by **IRS** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:17 pm

I guess it doesn't bother me if they want to check me for a id, that 5 min out of my day is no biggie, besides I don't think there going to be running around checking my id unless I'm doing something to justify it, but who knows.

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:28 pm

When you are driving a car you are doing something that requires a license. I should be able to go jogging without having to bring I.D. with me.

THat slippery slope sure is getting steeper

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:40 pm

De Plano wrote:When you are driving a car you are doing something that requires a license. I should be able to go jogging without having to bring I.D. with me.

THat slippery slope sure is getting steeper

Agreed!

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:44 pm

De Plano wrote:THat slippery slope sure is getting steeper

But we'll be safe, right?

...right?

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:14 pm

Prey521 wrote:Agreed!

The earth was just torn asunder

and to Jim, uh... right

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:37 pm

NY has a similar law pretty sure before 9-11 but cant remember anymore..but never seen it used or never happened to me..then again i dont get into trouble.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:41 pm

The law also requires those applying for state driver's licenses to sign a form that they haven't supported terrorist organizations.

Oh that oughtta keep'em on the straight and narrow. DUH

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:11 pm

Burke wrote:Bastard politicians. It's a violation of the 4th Amendment, so refuse when your name or ID is demanded arbitrarily by the police.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181382,00.html

What about the 5th and your right to not self incriminate????????????

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:16 pm

UOD wrote:What about the 5th and your right to not self incriminate????????????

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:25 pm

I wonder if I should be worried? All the local PO's just got new jackboots!

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:41 pm

Civil disobediance should find this law unconstitutional in short order.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:49 pm

De Plano wrote:When you are driving a car you are doing something that requires a license. I should be able to go jogging without having to bring I.D. with me.

THat slippery slope sure is getting steeper

As long as they can maintain that separation I'm ok with this. They already ask for your ID anyway when you get pulled over.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:50 pm

Augustus wrote:then again i dont get into trouble.

maybe you are on to something there

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:57 pm

Just for the record no officer should be contacting you unless he has reasonable cause to do so. Just walking down the street and asking for an id for no reason is not good enough. However, should he have valid reason to do so....that's another story. And giving a false name or address is an arrestable offense in several states.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:59 pm

64bit wrote:I wonder if I should be worried? All the local PO's just got new jackboots!

Zerohero · Post by **Zerohero** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:13 pm

Russell wrote:Just for the record no officer should be contacting you unless he has reasonable cause to do so. Just walking down the street and asking for an id for no reason is not good enough. However, should he have valid reason to do so....that's another story. And giving a false name or address is an arrestable offense in several states.

His valid reason could be "You walk funny.... lemme see some ID"

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:17 pm

well I would articulate it as, the subject appeared to be unsteady on his feet as if he were intoxicated or perhaps disoriented. I contacted him out of regard for his safety and the safety of others around him.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:18 pm

Zerohero wrote:His valid reason could be "You walk funny.... lemme see some ID"

What Russell is trying to explain is.....that wouldn't fly in a court-of-law in most states. Dunno about all of them but I'm not aware of any law besides this one that the state has mandated that you keep ID on you for just minding your own business.. Flying, ok....driving, ok....banking..very good idea.

Flying a kite in a public park?

Zerohero · Post by **Zerohero** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:27 pm

downhill wrote:What Russell is trying to explain is.....that wouldn't fly in a court-of-law in most states. Dunno about all of them but I'm not aware of any law besides this one that the state has mandated that you keep ID on you for just minding your own business.. Flying, ok....driving, ok....banking..very good idea.

Flying a kite in a public park?

I understand this, i was being funny. On a serious note, people know how to bend the law so making such a statement would not be hard. Just like it's not hard for an officer to have me pulled over because he "thinks" I'm intoxicated by my driving. Or he "thinks" what ever. He can BS a valid reason why he "thinks" what he did was right, and it will most and often times be found just fine in the court of law... IF you know how to play it it well.

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:40 pm

Zerohero wrote:I understand this, i was being funny. On a serious note, people know how to bend the law so making such a statement would not be hard. Just like it's not hard for an officer to have me pulled over because he "thinks" I'm intoxicated by my driving. Or he "thinks" what ever. He can BS a valid reason why he "thinks" what he did was right, and it will most and often times be found just fine in the court of law... IF you know how to play it it well.

Same can be said for the other side too. I've seen plenty of good cases get dropped due to the myriad of constraints put on Law Enforcement. All it takes is for a sharp defense attorney( Kings of BS ) to catch one " i " not dotted or one " t " not crossed. I like making good cases, don't feel like wasting my time making bad ones and then getting my a$$ handed to me in court. Any officer who comes in to court testifying that he "thought" this or he "thought" that, needs to find another job. I agree that it all boils down to articulation on the officer's part, but it damned well better be articulation based on valid reasonable suspicion and leading up to airtight probable cause.

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:32 am

You know, it doesn't matter if it won't hold up in court. The fact that an officer in Ohio can and WILL use personal JUDGEMENT to determine at the TIME what is considered "ID'able" is the problem. That is so subjective it's not even funny. And like they'll ALWAYS use a cool head and rational thought before stopping people.

Oops, political protest nearby where you're walking to the coffee shop, some of the people got violent. Lemme see your ID.

Oops, the president's motorcade is coming down this street and you're sweating a little too much for the offi-suh's sake. Lemme see your ID.

Don't give me this crap about "if you're doing nothing wrong, what's the problem" or, "this will help prevent terrorism." You can't stop terrorism, you can't defend everyone, and these bastards continue to frighten people in order to gain compliance. Now, with an official stamp on it, a lot of those in fear of everything will hand over their IDs with a shaky hand, "Oh my God, yes, master, here it is since you demanded it!"

I refuse to rely on the deterministic abilities of a beat cop or some 'roided-up COPS blowhard to make a good assessment of when he can or cannot ask for my ID.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:53 am

Here's one to think about.

Some guy walks up to you and flashes a badge. (It's fake, but a decent representation.) He says he's a non-uniformed police officer who needs your ID and SSN and (et cetera) for whatever legal-sounding reason he comes up with.

Bets say that more than half of the people in this nation will hand over both the driver's licence and their SSN. And the identity thief scores yet another victim.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:00 am

Paft wrote:Here's one to think about.

Some guy walks up to you and flashes a badge. (It's fake, but a decent representation.) He says he's a non-uniformed police officer who needs your ID and SSN and (et cetera) for whatever legal-sounding reason he comes up with.

Bets say that more than half of the people in this nation will hand over both the driver's licence and their SSN. And the identity thief scores yet another victim.

You'd have to be pretty stupid and not street smart at all to hand over your information to someone not in an officers uniform. Even in uniform, I'd question why they want to know, and if the reason isn't legit, then they ain't gettin chit!

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:07 am

I can only hope that the next President will come in and forcibly reverse all this mess once this horrible excuse for a pres is either ousted legally or his term runs out.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:08 am

thepieman wrote:I can only hope that the next President will come in and forcibly reverse all this mess once this horrible excuse for a pres is either ousted legally or his term runs out.

Ousted legally? LOL, don't hold your breath!

Jeb Bush in '08!

And what does this have to do with Bush?

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:12 am

Prey521 wrote:You'd have to be pretty stupid and not street smart at all to hand over your information to someone not in an officers uniform. Even in uniform, I'd question why they want to know, and if the reason isn't legit, then they ain't gettin chit!

Regardless of the stupidity in doing so, I agree with Paft in that the majority of people would probably comply with little question.

Prey521 wrote:Jeb Bush in '08!

Don't even joke about that.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:12 am

Prey521 wrote:You'd have to be pretty stupid and not street smart at all to hand over your information to someone not in an officers uniform. Even in uniform, I'd question why they want to know, and if the reason isn't legit, then they ain't gettin chit!

That's entirely true, but think about the amount of people that you know who aren't street smart or aren't intelligent enough to challenge "authority". There's more than immediately come to mind.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:13 am

Paft wrote:Here's one to think about.

Some guy walks up to you and flashes a badge. (It's fake, but a decent representation.) He says he's a non-uniformed police officer who needs your ID and SSN and (et cetera) for whatever legal-sounding reason he comes up with.

Bets say that more than half of the people in this nation will hand over both the driver's licence and their SSN. And the identity thief scores yet another victim.

We've had a problem in our city lately with dupe cops. There were people pretending to be cops that would pull people over on the road and then rob them.

That stuff kinda scares me, cause I mean how do you know who is a real cop these days with crap like that going on. It's terrible

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:13 am

Jim wrote:Regardless of the stupidity in doing so, I agree with Paft in that the majority of people would probably comply with little question.

Don't even joke about that.

If that is true, then the majority of people are morons!

I kid, we all know it will be Condie!

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:13 am

Prey521 wrote:You'd have to be pretty stupid and not street smart at all to hand over your information to someone not in an officers uniform. Even in uniform, I'd question why they want to know, and if the reason isn't legit, then they ain't gettin chit!

BS man...I say shens...you know damn straight if you were heading somewhere with your friends or family and you were questioned , you would hand over the ID rather then risk a detour to the pokey for resisting! You resisting, would be like telling your buddy GW to screw off and we both know thats not happening anytime this century. Just hope NY & NJ State has enough common sense never to pass such a bill and we will never have to worry about being stopped for such a thing. I hope we never live to see such a day. Its almost as if we have taken up where the USSR left off.

Pie

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:14 am

Brent wrote:We've had a problem in our city lately with dupe cops. There were people pretending to be cops that would pull people over on the road and then rob them.

That stuff kinda scares me, cause I mean how do you know who is a real cop these days with crap like that going on. It's terrible

Because you're not supposed to stop for unmarked cars.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:15 am

thepieman wrote:BS man...I say shens...you know damn straight if you were heading somewhere with your friends or family and you were questioned , you would hand over the ID rather then risk a detour to the pokey for resisting! You resisting, would be like telling your buddy GW to screw off and we both know thats not happening anytime this century. Just hope NY & NJ State has enough common sense never to pass such a bill and we will never have to worry about being stopped for such a thing. I hope we never live to see such a day. Its almost as if we have taken up where the USSR left off.

Pie

Nope, I know myself and how i'd act under certain situations. I'd never hand over my personal information to someone whom I was skeptical of, no matter what the circumstance, whether I'm with my fam or not.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:16 am

Prey521 wrote:Ousted legally? LOL, don't hold your breath!

Jeb Bush in '08!

And what does this have to do with Bush?

He and his cohorts are the ones spreading the panic that is bringing about all these changes. We will see about legalities once things start kicking in a bit. Things are just beginning to surface.

zooner · Post by **zooner** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:15 am

I smell serious racial problems here.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:48 am

i dont understand why blaming Bush...I mean lets at least blame the right politicians..not everything is Bush's fault

but in reality doesnt matter much to me...many more things that affect me on a daily basis that i would like to see changed and have our politicians worry about but they too busy doing other things that none really care