I'm at a cross road between my Faith and Homosexual Marriages

sito · Post by **sito** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:48 pm

I must have hurt lurkers feelings. Sorry Lurker. You triggered my demise here in the first place. So sorry.

sito · Post by **sito** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:49 pm

Is to say "an eye for an eye" ungodly? No shame here.

sito · Post by **sito** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:51 pm

bigmo66 wrote:Are you really John Kerry?

"I believed in God before I don't believe in him"

I believe in right from wrong, I don't need god to tell me the difference.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:51 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:of course when you say all men..bible does not include women? The bible is extremely chauvinsitic...What kind of God believes that women is inferior to man? I guess the same god that creates homosexuals and then condems them to Hell..Yeah what a God he is.,..not a God I could love or want to be in heaven with...

Phooey! The bible makes man and woman to be equal, just different roles and leadership. The old testament is a big pill to swallow sometimes, but it must be read in context and as a whole to include the new testament.

I tease my wife all the time telling her to go wash in the Jordan after that time of the month! She takes it jokingly and gives me a good whack. Can I explain everything - nope, but I don't denounce my faith and pretend God doen't exist because of my own lack of knowlege. No man on earth has all the answers and that's O.K. we're pretty new at this stuff.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:54 pm

bigmo66 wrote:Phooey! The bible makes man and woman to be equal, just different roles and leadership. The old testament is a big pill to swallow sometimes, but it must be read in context and as a whole to include the new testament.

Wait a second? In context? Or dont you mean literal? You cannot have it both ways...are you someone who follows it literally or no?

The whole story of Eve being made from Adam...shows the chauvnism right from the beginninng..I can go on and on..like how they are not suppoe to speak in church..and can never take a leadership role.

sito · Post by **sito** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:54 pm

bigmo66 wrote:Phooey! The bible makes man and woman to be equal, just different roles and leadership. The old testament is a big pill to swallow sometimes, but it must be read in context and as a whole to include the new testament.

I tease my wife all the time telling her to go wash in the Jordan after that time of the month! She takes it jokingly and gives me a good whack. Can I explain everything - nope, but I don't denounce my faith and pretend God doen't exist because of my own lack of knowlege. No man on earth has all the answers and that's O.K. we're pretty new at this stuff.

So what was the purpose of giant reptiles running around on this planet before us?

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:55 pm

Paft wrote:That's very true. If God did do all that, if he exists and created everything, and we even tried to wrap our heads around it.. yikes.

Thank you for the discussion bigmo. I'd love to do it again sometime. You're thoughtful in your responses, which is cool.

Thanks Paft, I've come to understand you a bit over the years. I didn't like you when you were 15

Heck, I don't like my 13 year old, but I sure do love her.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:55 pm

sitosterol wrote:So what was the purpose of giant reptiles running around on this planet before us?

bible cannot explain dinosaurs...another inaccuracy...

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:57 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:bible cannot explain dinosaurs...another inaccuracy...

or maybe it just doesn't mention them cause they weren't important to know about

who knows

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:58 pm

sitosterol wrote:So what was the purpose of giant reptiles running around on this planet before us?

i have no idea

i can't explain Gods plan

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:59 pm

Brent wrote:or maybe it just doesn't mention them cause they weren't important to know about

who knows

they dont mention them becuase the people who wrote the bible did not know about it.....still does not fit accroding to the 7 days God created everything.

I can answer the real reason why..Genesis was a myth it never really happened that way.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:00 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:of course when you say all men..bible does not include women? The bible is extremely chauvinsitic...What kind of God believes that women is inferior to man? I guess the same god that creates homosexuals and then condems them to Hell..Yeah what a God he is.,..not a God I could love or want to be in heaven with...

The Bible GH does NOT believe that women are inferior to men. Exactly what verse/verses make you think that?

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:00 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:they dont mention them becuase the people who wrote the bible did not know about it.....still does not fit accroding to the 7 days God created everything.

I can answer the real reason why..Genesis was a myth it never really happened that way.

i believe genesis did happen as the bible explains it

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:01 pm

Let's get back on topic, please...

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:01 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:Wait a second? In context? Or dont you mean literal? You cannot have it both ways...are you someone who follows it literally or no?

The whole story of Eve being made from Adam...shows the chauvnism right from the beginninng..I can go on and on..like how they are not suppoe to speak in church..and can never take a leadership role.

Yes you certainly can have it both ways. How do you think all those bogus religions started? Taking bits and pieces from the bible that suited someone who wanted to be God. The bible is to be taken literally, but with a knowledge that comes with faith, prayer and a genuine desire to understand. Why should God give knowledge to someone who isn't seeking? It's not a casual, trial membership. He knows when you are sincere.

For some weird reason I just had that silly line from Bruce Almighty go through my head. "Smite me Oh Mighty Smiter". I couldn't help but to laugh at that movie.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:02 pm

downhill wrote:Let's get back on topic, please...

Good point DH. I retract my question to GH so as not to keep it off topic any longer.

My bad guys.

sito · Post by **sito** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:03 pm

Brent wrote:i have no idea

i can't explain Gods plan

Which to me means, you don't know gods plan. I can't follow a plan unless I'm blind in doing so and I'm not blind. I'll pay attention it exists through believers, but I'll never all out believe it because there is no proof of him/her/it.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:04 pm

bigmo66 wrote:Yes you certainly can have it both ways. How do you think all those bogus religions started? Taking bits and pieces from the bible that suited someone who wanted to be God. The bible is to be taken literally

Who is to say which religion is bogus or not? IMO all religions are bogus..just another way to control man.

wee96 · Post by **wee96** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:08 pm

bigmo66 wrote:Sorry Wee, but you don't seem to have much knowledge of biblical facts and its historical truths. The geological, archeological and historical accounts are vast. Many are cross-referenced with other writings that are widely accepted as "truth".

You are correct in saying that the Bible can be manipulated and it has been time and time again and the mis-interpretation has always led to despair. In this case it has always been used for some, one person's gain. It was never intended for that.

Hrmm....I have the knowledge, its just your opinion that I dont and thats just fine. Geological and Archeological points are pretty worthless to use and facts seeing as how its obvious WHEN the books were written, things mentioned were obviously of the time so of course the tools, buildings, etc are correct in the text. Thats not what I was saying, I should have been more specific for those who dont have much knowledge

Miracles, people being healed of wounds, angels, demons, 7 headed beasts, things of that nature are what I speak of. You cannot without simply stating your "faith" prove or say these things are true and have happened or will happen. Children are amazingly smarter than most adults, and children always ask the perfect questions when first being brought up in a Church that are given "faith" answers. Sorry, only facts are truth, and again they cannot be proven.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:09 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:bible cannot explain dinosaurs...another inaccuracy...

The Bible mentions creatures named behemoths and tannins. Behemoth means kingly, gigantic beasts. Tannin is a term which includes dragon-like animals and the great sea creatures such as whales, giant squids, and marine reptiles like the plesiosaurs that may have become extinct. "Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God..." Job 40:15-19

Some dinosaur bones found are not even petrified yet. There is much to read on this subject GH. Don't discount something you aren't sure about.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:09 pm

downhill wrote:Let's get back on topic, please...

its ok DH, as long as its civil i don't mind it going off topic, we are have a great discussion here

its good to hear everyones feedback on things

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:10 pm

Roody wrote:Good point DH. I retract my question to GH so as not to keep it off topic any longer.

My bad guys.

it is definitely NOT your bad, it is nobodys bad

everyone here has remained civil and I appreciate that

good discusssion everyone!

wee96 · Post by **wee96** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:11 pm

[quote="bigmo66"]The Bible mentions creatures named behemoths and tannins. Behemoth means kingly, gigantic beasts. Tannin is a term which includes dragon-like animals and the great sea creatures such as whales, giant squids, and marine reptiles like the plesiosaurs that may have become extinct. "Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar]

Those quotes from the biblical text are an example of how your using them to try to explain something that wasnt explained.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:12 pm

[quote="bigmo66"]The Bible mentions creatures named behemoths and tannins. Behemoth means kingly, gigantic beasts. Tannin is a term which includes dragon-like animals and the great sea creatures such as whales, giant squids, and marine reptiles like the plesiosaurs that may have become extinct. "Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar]

I dont discount anything..but i believe in science over a book that was written by men.

Just becuase they mention behemoths and tannins dont mean anything...it can be elephants for all we know...there are so many animal species out there...

Point is..dinosaurs dont fit into the timeline of what the bible says the earth is only 6,000 years old..when we know that is false proven yet again by science.

What also dont make sense is we know humans and dinosaurs did not exist at the same time

sito · Post by **sito** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:12 pm

So should gays be allowed lawfully to declare their love for each other? YES, yes they should, how can god condem love?

sito · Post by **sito** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:15 pm

[quote="bigmo66"]The Bible mentions creatures named behemoths and tannins. Behemoth means kingly, gigantic beasts. Tannin is a term which includes dragon-like animals and the great sea creatures such as whales, giant squids, and marine reptiles like the plesiosaurs that may have become extinct. "Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar]

Could god be a dinosaur?

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:16 pm

wee96 wrote:Hrmm....I have the knowledge, its just your opinion that I dont and thats just fine. Geological and Archeological points are pretty worthless to use and facts seeing as how its obvious WHEN the books were written, things mentioned were obviously of the time so of course the tools, buildings, etc are correct in the text. Thats not what I was saying, I should have been more specific for those who dont have much knowledge Miracles, people being healed of wounds, angels, demons, 7 headed beasts, things of that nature are what I speak of. You cannot without simply stating your "faith" prove or say these things are true and have happened or will happen. Children are amazingly smarter than most adults, and children always ask the perfect questions when first being brought up in a Church that are given "faith" answers. Sorry, only facts are truth, and again they cannot be proven.

It's amazing how people will use archeology for their own benefit, but discount it when convienant. Now we have the age old question, "What is truth?" Obviously it is different as far as we are concerned.

wee96 · Post by **wee96** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:17 pm

bigmo66 wrote:It's amazing how people will use archeology for their own benefit, but discount it when convienant. Now we have the age old question, "What is truth?" Obviously it is different as far as we are concerned.

Who discounted it?

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:17 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:I dont discount anything..but i believe in science over a book that was written by men.

So how do you know that Science as you put it GH is real?

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:19 pm

Roody wrote:So how do you know that Science as you put it GH is real?

because science is what has given us medical technologies that has not only increased our lifespan..but saved countless lives and pain...for example the medicine I take for my GERD..Nexium...if that was not here..I probably go totally insane by now from the pain...how did that happen? Simple answer science =)

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:20 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:because science is what has given us medical technologies that has not only increased our lifespan..but saved countless lives and pain...for example the medicine I take for my GERD..Nexium...if that was not here..I probably go totally insane by now from the pain...how did that happen? Simple answer science =)

Yes, but did not man write about Science and teach you about Science?

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:23 pm

GH, can you agree with me on something?

That you have Faith

You have Faith in Science

Is that a correct assesment?

wee96 · Post by **wee96** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:23 pm

Roody wrote:Yes, but did not man write about Science and teach you about Science?

The main difference is science is tangiable, faith is not. Our reality as we know it. Sure you can say our reality might not be real, but again you dont know that, you only know our reality.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:23 pm

Roody wrote:Yes, but did not man write about Science and teach you about Science?

If it wasnt for science and mathematics...we would not even be having this debate on the internet..because there would be no internet...that is proof enough for me that science is real.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:24 pm

Brent wrote:GH, can you agree with me on something?

That you have Faith

You have Faith in Science

Is that a correct assesment?

Oh I have faith in God...but not in the Christian version of God that the bible describes.

I also beleive in science as long as it can be backed up.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:25 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:I dont discount anything..but i believe in science over a book that was written by men.

Just becuase they mention behemoths and tannins dont mean anything...it can be elephants for all we know...there are so many animal species out there...

Point is..dinosaurs dont fit into the timeline of what the bible says the earth is only 6,000 years old..when we know that is false proven yet again by science.

What also dont make sense is we know humans and dinosaurs did not exist at the same time

How do you know we didn't co-exist with Dinos? Science is only as valid as our limited understanding of the very compounds of life and that isn't much! Go look and see how many articles there are on the subject of carbon dating and inconsistencies. We always come back to, "If I can't hold it or see it, it can't be true" So the universe (even as we know it) is unspeakably vast and 1 little human wants "proof" before his eyes. I can except that I will never know "everything" while here on earth. It's O.K. I'm not going to explode or anything.
I asked you before, how do you know your Mother loves you?

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:25 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:If it wasnt for science and mathematics...we would not even be having this debate on the internet..because there would be no internet...that is proof enough for me that science is real.

Yes, but how do you know it is real GH? If the Bible isnt necessarily true as you suggest because Man wrote it then how can you be sure that Science is real? How did you learn of Science? Did some other being teach you or did you read about it in books and learn about it in school being taught by Man or Woman for that matter?

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:26 pm

wee96 wrote:The main difference is science is tangiable, faith is not. Our reality as we know it. Sure you can say our reality might not be real, but again you dont know that, you only know our reality.

That does not address what I asked GH IMO.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:27 pm

bigmo66 wrote:How do you know we didn't co-exist with Dinos? Science is only as valid as our limited understanding of the very compounds of life and that isn't much! Go look and see how many articles there are on the subject of carbon dating and inconsistencies. We always come back to, "If I can't hold it or see it, it can't be true" So the universe (even as we know it) is unspeakably vast and 1 little human wants "proof" before his eyes. I can except that I will never know "everything" while here on earth. It's O.K. I'm not going to explode or anything.
I asked you before, how do you know your Mother loves you?

..if we did..we would have been wiped out by that large asteroid that hit the earth...thus why there are no more dinosaurs

despite all the bible relligous people who say radiometric dating is not accurate..I tend to beleive the scientists...since they have nothing to lose. We know the earth is at least 4.4 billion years old..we dont know the exact age

sito · Post by **sito** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:27 pm

Roody wrote:Yes, but how do you know it is real GH? If the Bible isnt necessarily true as you suggest because Man wrote it then how can you be sure that Science is real? How did you learn of Science? Did some other being teach you or did you read about it in books and learn about it in school being taught by Man or Woman for that matter?

Science is more often than not a quantitative analysis than qualitative. Numbers don't change with here say.