Disabled DHCP on router...and now WAN IP is static?

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willieej2002
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Disabled DHCP on router...and now WAN IP is static?

Post by willieej2002 »

Hey guys.

This is probably a dumb question, but its one I am just curious about.

About a week ago, I disabled DHCP on our router so that each computer could have a static LAN IP. Well, that worked without fail, but now, my WAN IP is static? I was assigned a dynamic IP from my ISP, and my IP usually changes every two days or so. Is this normal, or is it just a coincidence that my IP hasnt changed ever since I disabled DHCP? Its been a week and a half with the same IP.

Hey, I'm not complaining, having an IP that doesn't change makes it easier to run a server over my DSL. ;) But I was just curious about why it hadnt changed.

Thanks.
fpthree

Post by fpthree »

Some of the details may depend on the router that you are using.
It's possible, that because you defined your LAN IP's to look to the WAN for default gateway, that you have created a NAT. Have you perform a reverse lookup every couple of days? I'm sure you have. But that is weird, what ISP are you using? Considering you are a DSL user, I have seen things such as this in the past. But make no mistake this is not such a common mistake. Strange... Well have fun, if I had a working static IP, god knows if I had a static IP I would :)
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Post by willieej2002 »

fpthree wrote:Some of the details may depend on the router that you are using.
It's possible, that because you defined your LAN IP's to look to the WAN for default gateway, that you have created a NAT. Have you perform a reverse lookup every couple of days? I'm sure you have. But that is weird, what ISP are you using? Considering you are a DSL user, I have seen things such as this in the past. But make no mistake this is not such a common mistake. Strange... Well have fun, if I had a working static IP, god knows if I had a static IP I would :)
Hey there.

Well, I configured each computer like this:

IP Address: 192.168.2.X
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.2.1
DNS Server 1: 16.176.95.129
DNS Server 2: 216.176.95.161

And then my IP hasn't changed since. :) Disabling DHCP also fixed my disconnect problem with my router. I'm using a Belkin F5D5231-4 router. Also, my ISP is Consolidated Communications.

By the way, I hate to ask, but what is reverse lookup? Sorry to ask such a silly question, but I really have no idea. Is it a method of finding your IP address or something? If that's what your asking, I just used whatismyip.com
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Post by YeOldeStonecat »

There should be no relation between static LAN IP addresses, and your WAN IP, the WAN IP lease is dictated by your ISP.

The router already has been running NAT all along, regardless of static/dynamic, DHCP or no DHCP, etc.

You don't need to disable DHCP on the LAN side of the router either, just assign static IPs outside the DHCP scope. Example, if your router normally hands out IPs from 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.200, and the LAN IP of the router itself is 192.168.1.1, that leaves you 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.99 to have static on your LAN.
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fpthree

Post by fpthree »

Yeah, it looks as though the IP may not be static at the router. I think that if you are using a private IP scheme such as the 192.X.X.X behind the routers config table you're most likely obtaining a new IP and not knowing it.
I just tried to statically assign my workstations nic, TCP/IP, with the IP that was assigned to me via DCHP from my service provider. It lasted for approximately 24 hours. The next morning I tried to browse the net and the default gateway was no longer any good. Is your router using PPPOE to establish a connection to the network? If so, then you're probly not using a static "WAN" IP. Only Static via LAN. Unless someone knows how to bipass the PPPOE authentication for DSL I think you're just chillin with a Dynamic IP.
I could be wrong. I'm not a pro at this stuff but I've worked with pleanty of local service providers to know that they are sticklers when it comes to a business / residential service. :thumb:
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Post by YeOldeStonecat »

Static WAN IP has no relation to PPPoE. PPPoE is simply a common authentication most DSL ISPs use to allow users to obtain an internet connection.

That internet connection can be a static IP, or a dynamic IP. Dynamic IP is more common, because most people select the entry level home package. But you can also get a static IP account with PPPoE, and most business grade accounts which happen to use PPPoE are static.

Wether you have a static WAN or not with DSL, is simply a matter of whatever account type you got when you signed up with your ISP, or just whatever your ISP does for basic accounts.
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willieej2002
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Post by willieej2002 »

YeOldeStonecat wrote:There should be no relation between static LAN IP addresses, and your WAN IP, the WAN IP lease is dictated by your ISP.

The router already has been running NAT all along, regardless of static/dynamic, DHCP or no DHCP, etc.

You don't need to disable DHCP on the LAN side of the router either, just assign static IPs outside the DHCP scope. Example, if your router normally hands out IPs from 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.200, and the LAN IP of the router itself is 192.168.1.1, that leaves you 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.99 to have static on your LAN.
Thats exactly what I thought. However, why have DHCP enabled whenever it wouldn't be handing out IP addresses? Or does DHCP do more than that and I just dont realize it?

fpthree: Hmm, if I am recieving the new IP address through the router, and its not getting delivered to my PCs, then how are members still able to access my web server via my domain name which is still configged to 216.176.66.240?

I checked my router config page, and it says that my WAN IP is stilll 216.176.66.240, and it also says that my gateway is the same as it was last week. How can I check to see if my WAN IP has changed and I don't realize it?

Btw, I dont use PPPoE. Its configured for "dynamic / DHCP" config from the ISP. I called them a few weeks ago to check on this, and they claimed that they do not use PPPoE.

-Just a note: Im not trying to prove anyone wrong or be witty, Im just curious as to why this behavior began after I manually configured static LAN IPs. I'm really thinking its just a coincidence that this stuff hasn't updated, and sooner or later its just going to hit me by surprise that my IP changed.

-Willie
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Post by YeOldeStonecat »

willieej2002 wrote:Thats exactly what I thought. However, why have DHCP enabled whenever it wouldn't be handing out IP addresses? Or does DHCP do more than that and I just dont realize it?

fpthree: Hmm, if I am recieving the new IP address through the router, and its not getting delivered to my PCs, then how are members still able to access my web server via my domain name which is still configged to 216.176.66.240?

I checked my router config page, and it says that my WAN IP is stilll 216.176.66.240, and it also says that my gateway is the same as it was last week. How can I check to see if my WAN IP has changed and I don't realize it?

Btw, I dont use PPPoE. Its configured for "dynamic / DHCP" config from the ISP. I called them a few weeks ago to check on this, and they claimed that they do not use PPPoE.

-Just a note: Im not trying to prove anyone wrong or be witty, Im just curious as to why this behavior began after I manually configured static LAN IPs. I'm really thinking its just a coincidence that this stuff hasn't updated, and sooner or later its just going to hit me by surprise that my IP changed.

-Willie

Leaving DHCP enabled for the LAN side can be good for people not totally comfortable with TCP, how it works. Say someone has their computer set to "obtain auto", and disable DHCP on the router. Suddenly they can't log onto the routers web admin page because they're getting a 169.254.xxx.xxx IP address, and don't know enough to change their IP to whatever matches the LAN scope of the router. That's why I always recommend to just assign static LAN IPs outside of your routers DHCP range. New users have that "safety net" to fall back on.

Quick guide on static LAN IPs behind a router.
http://www.speedguide.net/read_articles.php?id=177

The basic DHCP service of a router really doesn't do much more that you're not realizing...just IP, subnet, gateway, and DNS, some routers allowing WINS entries too.

There are some 3rd party utilities which can be setup to e-mail you if your WAN IP changes. Also there are dynamic-DNS packages, many routers support them, which work with dynamic IPs and DNS names...so you can always get to your home LAN via DNS name even if your IP changes frequently.

Not PPPoE huh? Probably have a Bridged (RFC 1483) DSL, that's what I have at home. Just set the WAN interface to "Obtain Auto" and you're good to go, no username or password at all. Smaller ISPs use this more often, and you do tend to have the same IP address "most of the time" because their pool is so small, and lease times very long. But unless you have an agreement with your ISP...it's not guaranteed not to change, if you NEED a static IP address...you NEED to get a static IP account with your ISP. I can have the same WAN IP for a month or two or three...then sometimes a different IP, then back to my other IP for another few months. Versus many clients that I have, that just have regular DSL through the local phone company...with a HUGE IP pool, and very short lease times. Dynamic accounts get different IPs at regular short intervals with larger ISPs.

When you check your WAN status, your remote gateway usually (almost never) will change, even if your WAN IP address changes. That remote gateway...that's your ISPs main router to the internet...that's something they really don't change, it's there for good.

I agree with your last note...it's just happens that your WAN IP has been the same recently. Or perhaps you had a setting on your router that is now set to "maintain connection" instead of "connect on demand". With connect on demand, it will let go of the IP when not in use, and ask for a new one when in use. Maintain connection will try to keep that connection 24/7, so it more likely to keep the same IP until the lease is up.
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Post by willieej2002 »

Thanks for that description Yosc. :)

My IP has changed now, because I had to disconnect my modem to move some cables. Oh well, at least that definately solves the question of if it was a coincidence or not.

Thanks guys,
but now im having one more problem....the lan disconnects are starting again, and its not on the wan side, its on the lan side, because whenever it happens, i cant ping the router. Any ideas on what to do about this? :( thanks. :)
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Post by YeOldeStonecat »

willieej2002 wrote:the lan disconnects are starting again, and its not on the wan side, its on the lan side, because whenever it happens, i cant ping the router. Any ideas on what to do about this? :( thanks. :)
By chance is the router sitting near anything that causes EMI, such as.....it's located right on top of a subwoofer, or near a flourescent light?

Good power source for the router?

Latest firmware for the router?

It's located somewhere that it gets ample cooling/air circulation?
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Post by willieej2002 »

YeOldeStonecat wrote:By chance is the router sitting near anything that causes EMI, such as.....it's located right on top of a subwoofer, or near a flourescent light?

Good power source for the router?

Latest firmware for the router?

It's located somewhere that it gets ample cooling/air circulation?
Its not located near either. Yes, I have the latest firmware. It is plugged in with the rest of my devices, which I know are in a good stable outlet.

but the very weird thing is, is that the router seems to go into a frozen state for no reason. I'll leave for an hour, and come back to a dead internet connection. A simple disconnect / reconnect usually does the trick...and sometimes it wont connect at all. Its not fault of the ISP either, because when I go directly into my computer or through my old Network Everywhere router, my connection runs 24 x 7 like its supposed to. o.O;

Yeah, it is located where it can get plenty of cool air. Right on the the bottom shelf of my computer desk, which is probably the coolest part of the house. :)
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Post by YeOldeStonecat »

By chance do you have a chance of trying another router? Borrowing one? Or the means to just snag another brand? My opinion on the Belkin routers I've come across...they make good cables and halfway decent KVMs...I'll leave it at that. Just...if you might be able to try another router "just for kicks".
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Post by willieej2002 »

YeOldeStonecat wrote:By chance do you have a chance of trying another router? Borrowing one? Or the means to just snag another brand? My opinion on the Belkin routers I've come across...they make good cables and halfway decent KVMs...I'll leave it at that. Just...if you might be able to try another router "just for kicks".
Well, right now im using the Network Everywhere router, which doesn't have the disconnect issue, ever. I'm starting to think that the belkin router is just no good, because I can't understand why the router *sometimes* cant communicate with my modem, and yet the modem always works with the network everywhere router. Is there any way that I can test the WAN port on my router to make sure it works?
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Post by YeOldeStonecat »

Oops, I didn't see you mention the "Network Everywhere" router.

Hate to sound like this twice, but I think those are perhaps the most trouble ridden routers out there. Somehow related to Linksys, but nobody seems to know how. But if it's working for you..... ///knock on wood///

You mention that the router does not respond to pings when you lose internet. To me that means either your PCs fell off the subnet (can diagnose that by running ipconfig), or the router just locks up. I wouldn't worry about testing the WAN port.

Next time it loses connection, run an ipconfig on your rigs, if they get a 169.254.xxx.xxx address, then they lost touch with the router for some reason. Trying static LAN IPs can sometimes help in this case. If you have static LAN IPs and still lose the router, can't ping it...then she's just locked up, probably a bum unit.
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Post by YeOldeStonecat »

BTW, Jeep owner?
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Post by willieej2002 »

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Oops, I didn't see you mention the "Network Everywhere" router.

Hate to sound like this twice, but I think those are perhaps the most trouble ridden routers out there. Somehow related to Linksys, but nobody seems to know how. But if it's working for you..... ///knock on wood///

You mention that the router does not respond to pings when you lose internet. To me that means either your PCs fell off the subnet (can diagnose that by running ipconfig), or the router just locks up. I wouldn't worry about testing the WAN port.

Next time it loses connection, run an ipconfig on your rigs, if they get a 169.254.xxx.xxx address, then they lost touch with the router for some reason. Trying static LAN IPs can sometimes help in this case. If you have static LAN IPs and still lose the router, can't ping it...then she's just locked up, probably a bum unit.
Well, the last time (before I configured static LAN IPs) I tried ipconfig when the connection died, I had the 169.254.xxx.xxx address. Then, I decided to give each computer a static LAN IP. Well, that seemed to work great, because I had a connection for about one week. Except, I came home yesterday morning to a dead connection. I did IPconfig and I still had the static info that I entered. The router wouldnt reply to a ping, nor would it respond when I tried to enter the routers web setup page. So, bum unit?

Edit -
Im going to take the router back up to my ISP today and ask them to try it with their setup. If that fails, I dont know if I want to exchange it....what would you suggest? A new router, or exchange? If a new router, what brand? Linksys, netgear, etc.
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Post by YeOldeStonecat »

I'm using a Netopia 3500 series, it's a modem/router all in one...very fast. SBC and other ISP's usually sell them with their 6 meg high speed DSL accounts, faster than the average router. Can find them around eBay pretty cheap.

Linksys BEFSX41 is one of my favorite of the entry level home market routers.
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Post by willieej2002 »

YeOldeStonecat wrote:I'm using a Netopia 3500 series, it's a modem/router all in one...very fast. SBC and other ISP's usually sell them with their 6 meg high speed DSL accounts, faster than the average router. Can find them around eBay pretty cheap.

Linksys BEFSX41 is one of my favorite of the entry level home market routers.
Well, they didn't test it with their current setup. Instead, they gave us a new belkin router to try out. Well, it doesn't work either...so I have no other choice but to get a new router.

I'll aim for that Linksys BEFSX41, as I looked it up and looks like what I need.

Thanks Yosc,
Willie.
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Post by willieej2002 »

Ah, just got the BESFX41 today, very nice router! Seems to do everything I want, and doesnt seem to disconnect at all. Thanks everyone.

-Willie. :)
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Post by YeOldeStonecat »

Enjoy it.....pretty good bang for the buck.
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