SG Broadband Community

I can't believe anyone who considers themselves to be civilized could act like
this. If it is true it is the end of any respect I have for Japan.

Warning - very gruesome.

Last chance

blacklab

Fishing has never been a beautiful thing.

People seem to get most offended about this because dolphins are cute.

I dont like how they do it, but unless the dolphins are endangered then hey, if people there eat it, let 'em have at it.

I worked in Krogers seafood department and threw live lobsters in the steamer. I popped the door to see if they looked like they were in pain, just sat there.

YARDofSTUF wrote:Fishing has never been a beautiful thing.

People seem to get most offended about this because dolphins are cute.

I dont like how they do it, but unless the dolphins are endangered then hey, if people there eat it, let 'em have at it.

I don't agree and because they are dolphins has nothing to do with it.

Dolphins are mammals and therefor are more sensitive to pain, and should be treated with more respect. In the past when I have killed animals for food I made sure they were dead or unconscious as quickly as possible.

I have been around quite a few slaughter houses and whether it is horses, cows, pigs, or anything else being killed it was done quickly and with as little stress as possible to the animal.

If they were rounding the dolphins up and killing them quickly I would have no problem with it, but to drag them down the street until they bleed, or cut there throats like that and leave the alive for minutes on end, well I have a problem with that.

blacklab

blacklab wrote:If they were rounding the dolphins up and killing them quickly I would have no problem with it, but to drag them down the street until they bleed, or cut there throats like that and leave the alive for minutes on end, well I have a problem with that.

blacklab

Me too!

There is no need to make them suffer like that.

Hi blacklab

They do much the same with Tuna in Italy and elsewhere, as well as other species.

Could they end their lives more humanely? I suppose they could and it would be better in the eyes of most, however different people, different ways of looking at things. We here have our Seal hunts which many view much the same way i'm sure.

Dolphins are a food source like other species we choose to hunt and like many other animals its cruel and inhumaine to many, but what could be worse than Trapping.

I personally see no distinction in the processing of animals of one type or another as they all appear less than appetizing to view in their final moments.

The video was pure pap in my opinion, pandering itself to exploitation as though they where children or something. They are food, plain and simple imho.

--

minir

Hi minir

minir wrote:Hi blacklab

They do much the same with Tuna in Italy and elsewhere, as well as other species.

I am not sure I would put tuna in the same class as dolphins. They are not mammals, but that is not to say they shouldn't be killed humanly. I am just not sure that they feel pain the same way, and most fish do not bond with their young the way dolphins do.

minir wrote: Could they end their lives more humanely? I suppose they could and it would be better in the eyes of most, however different people, different ways of looking at things. We here have our Seal hunts which many view much the same way I'm sure.

The seal hunters are a good example. If the pelts are harvested properly the seals are clubbed into unconscious and killed before the pelts are taken. There are a few who do not follow the rules and start skinning before killing the seals, but that is not the way it is suppose to be done. The biggest difference between seals and dolphins is it is a lot harder to get a movie star to pose with a dolphin than a seal.

As far as trapping goes I doubt that you have ever been on a trap line or you would not use that as a comparison. I used to go with my uncle on his trap line and he, as well as other trappers I know treat the animals with respect. The traps are and were set to bring death to the animals as fast as possible. Sometimes things went wrong, but they did not deliberately injure the animals to keep the others from leaving.

As for do I believe in trapping - no. The only one who needs a fir coat is the animal that owns it. One thing I will say is if they don't start getting rid on some of the beavers, the four legged ones that live in the woods, we are going to have a lot of land covered with beaver ponds. They are nothing but pesky rodents.

minir wrote: I personally see no distinction in the processing of animals of one type or another as they all appear less than appetizing to view in their final moments.

The video was pure pap in my opinion, pandering itself to exploitation as though they where children or something. They are food, plain and simple imho.

As for the video, yes it is pap, but what they showed could not be staged for the most part. The thing I don't like is how they, the Japanese, are treating the animals before they are killed. Yes, we kill animals for food and it is not pretty, but before bleeding them they are rendered unconscious either by a blow to the head, by driving a spike into the brain, or by shooting them. I am sure you can remember whenever we shot a duck if it was not dead we killed it immediately we did not let it suffer any longer than necessary.

blacklab

Blacklab, I feel the exact way that you do about this. I don't know what words to say. That video got to me.

Ranks up there with seal clubbing and whale poaching.

Debbie wrote:Blacklab, I feel the exact way that you do about this. I don't know what words to say. That video got to me.

No kidding, its horrible ...dolphins !!!!!!

blacklab wrote:I have been around quite a few slaughter houses and whether it is horses

Currently, three foreign-owned slaughterhouses in the United States are killing horses for human consumption. They are Beltex Corporation in Ft. Worth, Texas]http://www.saplonline.org/horses.htm[/url]

Have a strong stomach.......

Hi blacklab

I simply disagree blacklab. They are a source of food and tradition in some cultures differs from ours, for their own reasons.

Some people keep Dogs as Pets and others use them for Food. Whose right or wrong depends on ones point of view. Cutting the top of a monkeys skull off at your table is acceptable in some cultures so one may eat the brains, here i doubt we'd like that. Doesn't make it wrong imho.

There are many things we who are spoiled and wealthy do not condone and so we eat meat in plastic wrapped containers that have been injected with lord knows what and have sat for days on end, where others prefer their food as fresh as possible and in many cases eaten raw.

To judge the Japanese people on something like this does the people of Japan a great disservice imho. I have been to Japan and eaten things most would turn their nose up at, but found it quite enjoyable.

I personally find nothing that would cause me to look down at another culture or question its method of harvesting food.

In Japan they honour Carp and keep them in pools etc., here we spear them for no reason as they are rarely eaten.
---

minir

THen why is the dolphin meat packaged as WHALE meat! It cannot be legal!

Debbie wrote:THen why is the dolphin meat packaged as WHALE meat! It cannot be legal!

Its not always mis labeled, the killing isnt a covert thing.

YARDofSTUF wrote:Its not always mis labeled, the killing isnt a covert thing.

Do you know that for sure?

Debbie wrote:Do you know that for sure?

Pretty sure, plus it says most of the time mis labeled so that means its not always sold that way.

and here: http://www.earthtrust.org/dnarelease.html

It mentions that dolphin meat is being increasingly mis labeled.

YARDofSTUF wrote:Pretty sure, plus it says most of the time mis labeled so that means its not always sold that way.

and here: http://www.earthtrust.org/dnarelease.html

It mentions that dolphin meat is being increasingly mis labeled.

It doesn't matter what it says. I am finding it hard to believe that they can just mislabel dolphin meat. It is all about the dam money.

Debbie wrote:It doesn't matter what it says. I am finding it hard to believe that they can just mislabel dolphin meat. It is all about the dam money.

Everything is about money.

Debbie wrote:THen why is the dolphin meat packaged as WHALE meat! It cannot be legal!

Because they are. Cetaceans.

Debbie wrote:THen why is the dolphin meat packaged as WHALE meat! It cannot be legal!

--

Hi Debbie

Surely you don't think this is strictly a Japanese thing. There are unscrupulous people everywhere who will do anything for a buck.

How many Gucci Handbags can you find in Flea Markets everywhere.

--

minir

MadDoctor wrote:Currently, three foreign-owned slaughterhouses in the United States are killing horses for human consumption. They are Beltex Corporation in Ft. Worth, Texas]http://www.saplonline.org/horses.htm[/url]

Have a strong stomach.......

Hi MadDoctor

I think it would be a safe bet these horses are killed humanely. In my younger days I worked at a slaughterhouse where they killed horses and every horse was shot in the head with a 22 before they were skinned and cut up. Most of them were old or injured, and the meat was used for dog food.

I don't really have any problem with eating horses, why not, what make them any different than cows?
I have tried horsemeat and did not really mind it. My main problem with it is the price.

blacklab

minir wrote:Hi blacklab

I simply disagree blacklab. They are a source of food and tradition in some cultures differs from ours, for their own reasons.

Some people keep Dogs as Pets and others use them for Food. Whose right or wrong depends on ones point of view. Cutting the top of a monkeys skull off at your table is acceptable in some cultures so one may eat the brains, here i doubt we'd like that. Doesn't make it wrong imho.

There are many things we who are spoiled and wealthy do not condone and so we eat meat in plastic wrapped containers that have been injected with lord knows what and have sat for days on end, where others prefer their food as fresh as possible and in many cases eaten raw.

To judge the Japanese people on something like this does the people of Japan a great disservice imho. I have been to Japan and eaten things most would turn their nose up at, but found it quite enjoyable.

I personally find nothing that would cause me to look down at another culture or question its method of harvesting food.

In Japan they honour Carp and keep them in pools etc., here we spear them for no reason as they are rarely eaten.
---

minir

Hi minir

It has nothing to do with dolphins being a source of food, and nothing to do with culture. I don't care if some countries eat what we consider pets, or do I care how they eat them. I am only concerned with how they kill them, and how much they suffer before they die.

Also you may be spoiled and wealthy, but I don't consider myself in that class. I as well don't like most of the meat that is available these days, so I buy most of my meat from a butcher shop that gets it's meat from local farmers who do not inject their animals. These animals are also killed with as little stress as possible. The less adrenaline in the system when the animal dies, the better they taste.

I judge the Japanese people because they are the ones in the film. The Japanese are an intelligent race and it does not give them the right to treat other animals so inhumanly. We, as human beings, should treat the animals we use as food with more respect least we become no better that the animals in the forest.

Living in Canada gives me the freedom to speak out against things I don't like, or don't agree with, without the fear of reprisal. When I see another culture or race mistreat animals that can not stand up for themselves I am going to say something. I feel I am a very liberal minded person who believes in live and let live, but I treat this the same as I would if I seen someone setting a cat on fire.

blacklab

Debbie wrote:THen why is the dolphin meat packaged as WHALE meat! It cannot be legal!

Hi Debbie

Whale meat is probably more expensive - then it would be called greed.

blacklab

The good folk in Japan will eat just about anything and China? They have 3 penis wine.......

Hi blacklab

When i spoke of spoiled and wealthy it was a statement of our economies against many less fortunate places in the world and yes you are one of them blacklab, as most are in Canada and the US comparatively speaking.

As to the judgement of a whole Country or Race of people, that is simply ridiculous imho. If someone wishes and can afford a Fur Coat, so be it. If another Country butchers their meat in a way i don't agree with, thats their business, as i don't judge period. They have after all been doing it far longer than we have.

As a Canadian i do not feel lessened nor responsible for our Seal hunt as i do not participate, nor do i particularly care.

As to opinions, i have mine and you have yours and it is not necessary to agree. One suit does not fit all and that is what makes the world a different place. I am not here to preach right or wrong to other Nations on their manner of eating as they obviously have their way of doing things and just because it may offend my sensibilities does not make me right.

--

minir

blacklab wrote:Living in Canada gives me the freedom to speak out against things I don't like, or don't agree with, without the fear of reprisal. When I see another culture or race mistreat animals that can not stand up for themselves I am going to say something. I feel I am a very liberal minded person who believes in live and let live, but I treat this the same as I would if I seen someone setting a cat on fire.

While I pretty much agree with your feelings, I do sense a bit of a generalization over this video, where you apply the deplorable actions of those fisherman to an entire country. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find evidence of such cruelty at a seaport or butcher shop in almost any country on this planet.

EDIT: And it seems Minir basically said the same thing right before I posted this.

minir wrote:Hi blacklab

When i spoke of spoiled and wealthy it was a statement of our economies and lifestyles against many less fortunate places in the world and yes you are one of them blacklab, as most are in Canada and the US comparatively speaking.

--

minir

Hi minir

I was just jerking your chain - I knew you didn't win anypart of the $24 Mill last night so I knew you were not refering to yourself.

And you are right about opinions, but some people were born to be judges and some were born to be judged. I want to be among those who judge.

blacklab

YARDofSTUF wrote:Fishing has never been a beautiful thing.

This isn't fishing. Just because dolphins swim does not make them the same as a fish.

Fish don't have feelings or fear. Dolphins do. Either way, a humane death should be assured.

(Personally, I disagree with the slaughter of dolphins).

blacklab wrote:Hi minir

I was just jerking your chain - I knew you didn't win anypart of the $24 Mill last night so I knew you were not refering to yourself.And you are right about opinions, but some people were born to be judges and some were born to be judged. I want to be among those who judge.blacklab

--

2 Lousy numbers was all blacklab. Still a poor people, me

Go watch a Paris video and see what we do to meat, that we should be ashamed of.

--

minir

blacklab wrote:Hi MadDoctor

I think it would be a safe bet these horses are killed humanely.
blacklab

I wish I could say that was true. But horses are smart animal and knows what is happening.... and about to happen. That's why French companies run the three killing sites in the U.S. where horse meat is eaten in France like we eat cow here.

Subject to extreme overcrowding, abuse, deafening sounds and the smell of blood, the horses become more and more desperate, exhibiting fear typical of &#8220]The transportation, handling and slaughter process are rife with cruelty. Failure to properly stun animals at the slaughter plant results in horses being shackled and dismembered while still conscious. Slaughter is not humane euthanasia.[/i]

Despite the federal mandate that horses be rendered unconscious before having their throats slit, repeated blows with captive bolt pistols are often necessary to stun the animals. Terrified horses writhe in the holding stalls (known as the “kill box&#8221 , legs buckling under their weight after each traumatic, misguided and ineffective blow to their heads. Death, the final betrayal of these noble animals, is protracted and excruciating.

I'm letting it get to me. I'm out of this thread.....

MadDoctor wrote:I wish I could say that was true. But horses are smart animal and knows what is happening.... and about to happen. That's why French companies run the three killing sites in the U.S. where horse meat is eaten in France like we eat cow here.



I'm letting it get to me. I'm out of this thread.....

Hi MadDoctor

The French run the killing sites on this side of the Atlantic because it is cheaper to fly just the meat over than the whole horse. We also have slaughter plants in Canada for horse meat that is sent to Europe. Almost all of their need for horse hide can be handled with horses from Europe so they just send the meat over.

One thing of note - the Provencal government stopped the capture and killing of wild horses in Alberta. You need a special licence to capture a wild horse here and there are some pretty strict rules on what you can do with that horse.

blacklab

I hope so too....

<bites tongue>

Jim wrote:While I pretty much agree with your feelings, I do sense a bit of a generalization over this video, where you apply the deplorable actions of those fisherman to an entire country. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find evidence of such cruelty at a seaport or butcher shop in almost any country on this planet.

EDIT: And it seems Minir basically said the same thing right before I posted this.

Hi Jim

I would like to think most of the people in Japan has not seen that video, but I am probably wrong. I bet if something like that was happening in Canada or the US there would be one hell of an uproar and the practice would be stopped. It happened with the seal hunt in Canada.

There is probably the odd butcher shop in North America that does not treat the animals they kill with respect, but I don't think it is the norm and certainty not to the extent that video showed.

blacklab

When I lived down in the southern part of this state, I had a friend who worked at a slaughter house for awhile. He invited me down for an open house one afternoon to give me a tour of the place. Supposedly visitors were not allowed in, at actual slaughter time, but apparantly someone goofed and I was there. I will not go into detail, but I would assume that most large scale slaughter houses are much the same. Its a production line, with some cattle reacting as MadDoctor has described the horses reaction.

Up until two years ago I raised my own lifestock, both cattle and hogs. When it came to butchering time, I was the one doing the shooting, though I am sure my butcher was perfectly capable of that himself, and part of the service, I wanted to be absolutely sure that animal was down in one shot, and a clean one. I did much the same with my hunting skills..if I could not get a good clean kill shot...I would not fire...period!

My mind set was always and still is....if I were the hunted, would I wish for less? I think not!! So whatever animal, or fish, or whatever it might be, has that same respect from me. I am just not into hurting critters of any type senselessly.

waferdog wrote:This isn't fishing. Just because dolphins swim does not make them the same as a fish.

Fish don't have feelings or fear. Dolphins do. Either way, a humane death should be assured.

(Personally, I disagree with the slaughter of dolphins).

I also disagree with the slaughter of dolphins.

MissTynker2 wrote:I will not go into detail, but I would assume that most large scale slaughter houses are much the same. Its a production line, with some cattle reacting as MadDoctor has described the horses reaction.


My mind set was always and still is....if I were the hunted, would I wish for less? I think not!! So whatever animal, or fish, or whatever it might be, has that same respect from me. I am just not into hurting critters of any type senselessly.

Hi MissTynker2

The horses and cattle are responding to the smell of the blood, not to what may be in store for them otherwise there would be a made dash to get out of the pens.

I have been with my dad when he used a horse to drag a deer he shot back to the house. It was hard to get the horse close to the deer to hook him up. Unless they are meat eaters all animals shy away from fresh blood.

You have the right attitude about hunting and would be welcome in my camp anytime.

blacklab

Thanks blacklab! I am also a great camp cook as well! Nothing like venison liver, onions, bacon...fried taters & onions , bisquits and gravy cooked over an open fire for breakfast in hunting camp! If that be the hunt of the day

MissTynker2 wrote:Thanks blacklab! I am also a great camp cook as well! Nothing like venison liver, onions, bacon...fried taters & onions , bisquits and gravy cooked over an open fire for breakfast in hunting camp! If that be the hunt of the day

Sorry Tynker, if you are going to cook liver, I'll do the cookiing. I never did like liver and since my wife's best friend died of "Mad Cow Disease" last year I am really off it now.

blacklab

blacklab wrote:Sorry Tynker, if you are going to cook liver, I'll do the cookiing. I never did like liver and since my wife's best friend died of "Mad Cow Disease" last year I am really off it now.

blacklab

Lots of alternatives! I only listed PART of the morning cookout! Sorry about your wifes friend ...and I will stop hijacking your thread now too! Just a bit of fun.