unions are greedy and selfish.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 1:21 am

Originally posted by davy19
In NY it is, dont cross a Union or you might just end in the hospital or worse dead.

thats bad for teh unions and unions dont condone(sp) the acts

that happens most with teh older union workers looking for trouble, unions can get into deep ***** with stuff like that.

WhoNut · Post by **WhoNut** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 1:24 am

Originally posted by downhill
Are employers greedy?....Even more so.

I dunno DH. I think that employers generally have the upper hand, so they wield the power they have. Privately owned companies have fewer mouths to feed than public corporations, but both want the same result - higher profit margin.

The individual union employees are all capable of the same greed. Only as a group do they appear to be more respectable. Think of all the work rules I'm sure your union has. Seniority, for one, is a determining factor in many decisions. This is precisely because without these rules, each individual employee becomes a free agent.

Corporations can seem heartless in their decision making, and sometimes they are. But there are plenty of good people on both sides of the fence.

It's funny, some of the strongest union men I know expect their stocks to perform well and have no problem hiring immigrants to landscape their yard. On the job of course, it's all about making a living wage.

Again, I don't dislike them for this. I think it's only human nature.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 1:31 am

Originally posted by WhoNut

Again, I don't dislike them for this. I think it's only human nature.

I'll have to agree with most of that post..especially this part. ^^^

There are fairly large company's that have survived just fine without Unions. Why? Because they value their employees.

Idaho Power is one of them. They see both sides of the coin. As such, decided a long time ago, how to bargain with the employees fairly. A bonus in my book.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 2:26 am

Originally posted by downhill
Pics? LOL

How about a news article....

How about responding to my post about this issue? Just curious as to your real intent in this thread?

I have already given 2 examples in my previous posts.

I can give you another, but to be honest, I fear for my life if I even post it, so I wont.

If you really want me to pull up NY news articles I can go looking for them, but trust me ask anyone in NY, especailly plumbing/electrical/construction/actor unions

Aside from the violence, there is one other reason why I hate unions.

If you are employed in a union environmrnt, most times every employee is equal, and there are usually no merit raises, only progressive raises, and based upon how long you worked there.

Well I think that sucks, and think raises should be based on Merit.

Take a look at it this way. When I was working back at the Supermarket, I got the same exact raise as everyone else, cant remeber the percentage. But I worked ten times as hard as lets say worker named "Joe", but we got both the same raise. So after that I said forget this, why should I kill myself to be a good worker, when "Joe" does least amount and still gets paid the same?

So what did I do? My work productivity went downhill because I did the least needed. Unions encourage workers to become lazy, simple as that.

Now working in the IT field, I get raises based upon how well I performed during the past year. I have gotten raises as low as 3%, and as high as 20%, plus bonuses. If I had a union now, I would be totally screwed, and nowhere making the amount of money I do...plus one less tax I need to pay the union.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 2:34 am

Some of what you say is true.....but lets examine this.

Well I think that sucks, and think raises should be based on Merit.

Your certainly entitled to your opinion...but my opinion of the merit system is this.

If we were to base salary's and promotions on it, you would see people all over the place with broken noses.......

You see, every time a boss made a fast right hand turn, it just snaps them things.....

Now if the merit system was as infallible as you suggest...then yes..by all means that would be wonderful. It has it's problems too.

A joke....

What's the difference between a kiss butt and a brown noser?

Depth perception.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 2:37 am

You lost me downhill, maybe because it is way too late.

I will agree merit is not perfect, no system is, but I like that option a lot better.

Otherwise what motivates you to work harder the next year?

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 2:38 am

Pride....at least for me. How about yourself?

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 2:44 am

Originally posted by downhill
Pride....at least for me. How about yourself?

1) Money

2) Have a job that I enjoy and dont mind getting up 5 am everyday

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 2:48 am

Originally posted by davy19
1) Money

2) Have a job that I enjoy and dont mind getting up 5 am everyday

Hummm.....so when we get really old...I'll have a bad back and you''ll be rich.

I should rethink my views. LOL

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 2:50 am

Originally posted by downhill
Hummm.....so when we get really old...I'll have a bad back and you''ll be rich.

I should rethink my views. LOL

LOL...now you thinking like me...=)

Chrome · Post by **Chrome** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 2:53 am

The only complaint that I have heard from the Longshoremen's union is that a number of their jobs may disappear due technological advances mainly. The applicable companies want to implement a sytem of barcoding that would result in a much lower demand for labor, something that is almost exclusively the largest cost of business. Do these guys unload cargo for a living or make straight pins?

Maybe I've listened to the news to much, but these guys make something on the order of 100 k per year. For what, moving boxes around? I'm not trying to devalue what these guys do, or their essential nature, but I'd not expect even the logistical coordinators to breach 100k per year.

The longshoremen's dispute is the exercise of a stranglehold. Safety should not even be an issue since its the guys you work with that determine how safe your work area is. OSHA is already there to take care of non worker sourced safety issues, and everyone should be paying them to do it by 4/15 every year through income taxes.

I work in a state where people can be fired at will, technically, but they aren't. In fact my company's Human Resource department protects us very well, but they can burn us too, if we try to take advantage.

I make a good wage. I can support myself, and have a lot left for fun money, or providing for a family if I wanted to. I am skilled labor, and I am compensated quite well for it. I also can be heavily injured, incapacitated, or killed if I don't pay attention, but that isn't much different than me walking across the street or having a risky hobby.

I work on machinery that assembles hardcopy bills from a stack of paper to something that get ends up in your mailbox. Its very complex machinery, and critical enough that a large percentage of the machines I fix are not having problems performing their function correctly, but are not correctly verifying that they are functioning correctly due to the myriad of sensors and checks to make sure they are functioning correctly.

Its also likely that such machinery and the associated jobs will be made partially redundant due to the fact that many bills are being issued and paid electronically. If such machinery declines in use, due to more widespread adoption of electronic billing, should I be guaranteed a job? Hell no. HELL NO! Because I won't be doing the job, and my knowledge will be much less valuable.

If its true the longshoremen have been locked out, I ask why. I hear that they voluntarily slowed down. If an employee willfully lowers their production, with only their future job security in mind, and tries to play lawyer with the rulebook, they should be ****canned. Widespread adoption of allowing mediocrity only encourages more mediocrity, and punishes those who legitimately fight to get ahead through hard work.

All I see are a bunch of guys that are afraid of losing their jobs. Guess what, everyone's vulnerable to that, including me, so I have no sympathy. And if its a safety matter, you don't wait till contract renegotiation time to take care of it or make more money off of it, you take care of it when the problem starts, otherwise you are no better than those who might take advantage of you.

Length and depth of experience, productivity, and market value should determine a workers value, not some friggin' contract negotiated by someone who depends on your job for theirs.

Edit:
I'm not against unions, indeed they are a very major part of the reason I have many of the rights I do have at work. But the current longshoremen's acts are tantamount to blackmail. As far as I can tell, the businesses involved can better a process and save money to boot. This is about retaining redundant jobs, not justice. Should we maybe fight to get buggy whip manufacturers back into business? No. Technology has passed them by.