A note to Civilians

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 11:45 am

Originally posted by Crump

no we don't....we only see what the gov wants us to see and hear

to a certain extent as it relates to the FBI...CIA....NSA...matters of national security should be secret.

But to blindly make a statement like that Crump is ignorant. It isn't true.

with all due respect....

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 11:48 am

Originally posted by Crump

no we don't....we only see what the gov wants us to see and hear

If you are willing to look, you can find it.

david

Crump · Post by **Crump** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 11:48 am

If it wasn't for the USA...how many countries would there be?

Let's see...most of Europe would be called GERMANY

AND IF IT WASN'T FOR YOU (CANADA) PIGGY-BACKING ON US (USA)...YOU MIGHT NOT EXIST AS WELL!! I WOULD SAY YOU GOT LUCKY BY LOCATION!!!

Crump · Post by **Crump** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 11:49 am

Originally posted by Deus ex Machina

If you are willing to look, you can find it.

david

I am willing to look and listen, but some things are buried to deep for the public.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 11:50 am

So where is perspective now I wonder....I'm ready when you are to go head to head.

http://home.online.no/~wkeim/foil.htm

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 11:55 am

Other countries — even other democracies — live by a variety of freedom-restricting measures; their citizens’ daily lives are subtly, if not harshly, encumbered by them. Britain, for example, places significant limitations on what the press can publish — in our country, we call that " prior restraint. " In other countries citizens can be arrested on suspicion of committing certain crimes and held in jail without bail for varying lengths of time.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 12:03 pm

Originally posted by Crump

I am willing to look and listen, but some things are buried to deep for the public.

I would agree that most media outlets can make things difficult, but hardly impossible.

The internet has allowed "alternative" information sources greater accessibility.

To wit.

I had a marvelous discussion with regard to AIDS and the possibility that the HI virus was not culpable (I took the stance that it was). Jayyy had listed some great resources with regard to the politics of the research and many fallacies in the mainstream media.

david

Crump · Post by **Crump** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 12:06 pm

Originally posted by Deus ex Machina

I would agree that most media outlets can make things difficult, but hardly impossible.

The internet has allowed "alternative" information sources greater accessibility.

To wit.

I had a marvelous discussion with regard to AIDS and the possibility that the HI virus was not culpable (I took the stance that it was). Jayyy had listed some great resources with regard to the politics of the research and many fallacies in the mainstream media.

david

When I said buried, I meant that some things never reach any media source because it was hidden, buried by the gov.

FunK · Post by **FunK** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 12:27 pm

I'm getting in on this WAY too late, but there was a comment made about Japan and the liberties they enjoy without any standing military.

Somehow the point was made that Freedom, as Americans enjoy it, is somehow the same freedom that the Japanese enjoy.
I am assuming that the point was; Japan is Free without a military.
America needs it's military to protect freedom.

Perspective, are you that stupid?
Japan's freedom is protected by the AMERICAN MILITARY.

Misawa
Yokosuka
Iwakuni
Kadena
Torii
Cp Butler
Cp Schwab
Ft Buckner
Cp Courtney

Just to name a few. Remember that the first post was about the men and women that serve(d) at places like those listed above.

The only reason that post WWII Japan is not speaking Chinese or Korean is because of the US Service men and women that were praised in the first post.

You Sir are a thread crapper and a **** starter. Obviously you think that you understand how things work. Perhaps the US supports a government you don't. TUOUGH ****. They support nations I don't care for either. That doesn't make the US any less great.

We open the umbrella of freedom to anyone that wants to get under it and then we use our military to support nations that need it. We do not often get paid back for the $ and men we lose in doing these things.

You need to make your own thred and debate this issue with any people that respond.

It's true that Americans have a certain tunnel vision when looking at their country. That's becasue it IS THE GREATEST NATION ON EARTH. It's not BRAINWASHED, it's the TRUTH.

Have you ever wondered why Canada is still FREE??
I doubt that it's YOUR military keeping it safe. I would venture to say that it is because your allied with the great USA.

Where did you serve again? You sir have not earned the right to badmouth the US military. You can bash the government and perhaps it's use of said military, but until you get a clue about freedom and the need for our military, you should keep your mouth shut.

Shut up, start your own thread and leave the fun loving Americans to cheer their veterans in any way we want.

Ask the liberated Afghans how they feel about our service members. I bet they would kick YOUR ass for us.

FunK

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:48 pm

Originally posted by Amro
i'm patriotic too, but i'm also egyptian and an american citizen and a good member of society, so why don't you guys go kick the @$.$ of the guy who called us and gave us a hate call last night and threatened my and my family's lives? and my dad wouldn't let me call the cops, he just said it's just some idiot with a phone book looking for mohamed in it..and i said right but he needs to be in jail for infringing on MY rights as a human being above a citizen even.. MY civil rights. it was wrong, and GOD i'm so pissed because of it..but can't do a thing.

upset,
Amro

Amro,

I faced anti-semetism growing up as a child and see it even in my own town where I now live as a respected adult citizen. Sometimes, it has been disparriagements, other times physical.

You cannot easily fight someone else's fear and ignorance. Accept the fact that the average IQ is 100 and half of the population is below that mark.

david

Perspective · Post by **Perspective** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 3:38 pm

Yeah im here..but gotta write a paper..but its nice to see others are interested..

Either way ill get back to all this tonight.

But,

(1) Uod2001..wrong. Most coutries share all those freedoms you mentioned, variations on them a bit, but the spirit and essense of them all democracies share. Like France and Yahoo, yeah, was a feeble attempt to protect French culture from American cultural hegemony (their words..not mine). Also, do you have the "right" to look at kiddie porn? No. Some of these small variations, done to protect the populace or to secure a overwhelming social need to exist.
(2) Funk..your saying Japan's freedoms were protected by the U.S? Well if thats so, id say your approach was maybe unique (A-Bomb) Ah scratch that. =) Either way, were talking today, and they have a very small standing army, and are essensitially under occupation by the U.S. forces (as any1 from Kobe). And today, they face no threat of being truly taken over.

And yes, many of those 3,000,000 were civilians taking up arms...but ya miss my point. Im talking about the sheer loss of life, all the 50,000 americans were soldiers, a number which, regarldess of affiliation, pales relative to how many the vietname lost.

Just to stir the pot:

(1) Iranian Airline shot down by U.S. battleship, killing what, 300 aboard..in 1983 (?) And dont tell me it was in protected airspace..or at least research it a bit before ya do.
(2) Much more recently, the whole American spy plane taken by China fiasco.

Now, if roles were reversed, what would the Americans have done? (ie. Lets say a Chinese spy plane making return visits to just offshore of New York and Washington, monitoring all govt and military communications.)

Be Back L8tr

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 3:43 pm

You guys and gals all have rock solid post...except Perspective or course

Let's all stand together...line up (me first) and kick his ass!

United We Stand, With Liberty And Justice For ALLLLL!

Thanks for all the newcomers to this thread and the support you've given thus far!

CompGeek83 · Post by **CompGeek83** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 3:52 pm

Originally posted by GoldenSpoon
Let's all stand together...line up (me first) and kick his ass!
United We Stand, With Liberty And Justice For ALLLLL!

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 4:24 pm

On a brighter note. Touch this one Perspective!

CompGeek83 · Post by **CompGeek83** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 4:31 pm

heh, yeah perspective, touch any of these

Osama 1
Osama 2
Osama 3
Osama 4
Osama 5
Osama 6
Osama 7
Osama 8

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 4:35 pm

Perspective I give you credit and credit for one thing. Other counties do have it worse than the United States.

CompGeek83 · Post by **CompGeek83** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 4:36 pm

oh yeah, some other countries do have it worse, i mean can you imagine being the guy on the right in the situation below? (or any situation for that matter)

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 4:42 pm

Immortal · Post by **Immortal** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 4:47 pm

Originally posted by CompGeek83
oh yeah, some other countries do have it worse, i mean can you imagine being the guy on the right in the situation below? (or any situation for that matter)

haha.. true..

Perspective · Post by **Perspective** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 4:47 pm

what do ya mean touch this one?
I think their as funny as you do..and im all for the message

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 4:54 pm

Ah, your singing a different tune now.

Since when have you agreed? It's not about agreement my friend. It's about support! America...good or bad policies. Thru thick and thin. Something you didn't get ask on your citizenship test I take it.

Why did you come to the United States and what country did you immigrate from?

I mean you should have told your immigration officer during your immigration interviews your views and you might as well lost your FREE pass to AMERICA before you got here.

Perspective · Post by **Perspective** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 4:57 pm

Dude, were operating WAY above your head.
You dont know how to seperate issues.
I didnt immigrate, my dad is U.S. citizen, ive got U.S. citizenship.
My guess is hes had family there longer than you. (hes traced it back 210 yrs)
Again, you cant seperate issues, youre thinking incredibly one dimensional, so ill ignore you from now on.

CompGeek83 · Post by **CompGeek83** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:00 pm

Originally posted by Perspective
Dude, were operating WAY above your head.
You dont know how to seperate issues.
I didnt immigrate, my dad is U.S. citizen, ive got U.S. citizenship.
My guess is hes had family there longer than you. (hes traced it back 210 yrs)
Again, you cant seperate issues, youre thinking incredibly one dimensional, so ill ignore you from now on.

what issue do you want seperated? you yourself cant seperate issues, your comparing stuff happenning now to things that have happenned in the past in totatly different context's than the present

whats happenning now is happenning now, and personally i could care less whether osama is hiding in a 5th rate 3rd world country or a country with as many rights and freedoms as the US, I still say bomb them until they hand him over and keep bombing until they learn their lesson (but if they were as powerful as the US they wouldn't have gotten there by being stupid, and just in case you didnt know, harboring terrorists is stupid)

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:02 pm

You can ignore me but you can't ignore the masses

BTW prove your family has been here 210 yrs. Since you TRY to prove everything else.

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:06 pm

I have a bone to pick with you Perspective.

You don't support US Policies. Niether does Bin Laden and his followers. That's why they bombed the embassys in Africa and killed thousands in NY including PA and DC. You support Bin Laden? I think you do.

Perspective · Post by **Perspective** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:06 pm

what issue do you want seperated? you yourself cant seperate issues, your comparing stuff happenning now to things that have happenned in the past in totatly different context's than the present

No. Im saying for instance, that i can still support my girlfriend, without supporting here on every bloody issue. If shes wrong in a argument, ill tell her so, if she didnt something she shoudnt, ill tell her so. Yet, I still support her.

No. This whole thread came to be when i mentioned American foreign being a rationale for the Sept. 11th attacks. Past references i made were in response to what others said ("We 'saved' you then") or to point out historical injustices, which many still use as their motis operandi. (?) (israel -palestine issue)

BTW..isnt it funny that more often than not someone else responds to back someone up, while they take off, change the issue, or simply point out faults in my argument?
To say nothing of their own.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:08 pm

Originally posted by Crump

AND IF IT WASN'T FOR YOU (CANADA) PIGGY-BACKING ON US (USA)...YOU MIGHT NOT EXIST AS WELL!! I WOULD SAY YOU GOT LUCKY BY LOCATION!!!

Well I wasnt going to but I guess I will stick my head in this, This is a very feeble attemp at pissing off one poster that has the ramafication of pissing off many.
History shows that Canada can stand on its own. While the USA stood on the sidelines for most of WW2 Canada was on the front lines. We were the first county to design, build and fly a supersonic Delta wing Jet. History also shows that in the battle of North and South We also kicked your butts. You can't survive without our lumber industry or our Mining industry. In the very near future you also will not be able to survive without our fresh water reserves.
These are facts, just as the fact that we could not survive without many of the benifits we get from being neighbores with the U.S.
So to blindly insult MY country because one poster disagrees with your opinion, is as wrong as what your view on what he is saying.

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:09 pm

Perspective....Your talking like Bin Laden. Sure your not?

CompGeek83 · Post by **CompGeek83** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:10 pm

Originally posted by Perspective

No. Im saying for instance, that i can still support my girlfriend, without supporting here on every bloody issue. If shes wrong in a argument, ill tell her so, if she didnt something she shoudnt, ill tell her so. Yet, I still support her.

No. This whole thread came to be when i mentioned American foreign being a rationale for the Sept. 11th attacks. Past references i made were in response to what others said ("We 'saved' you then") or to point out historical injustices, which many still use as their motis operandi. (?) (israel -palestine issue)

BTW..isnt it funny that more often than not someone else responds to back someone up, while they take off, change the issue, or simply point out faults in my argument?
To say nothing of their own.

sounds like your girlfriend is just there for the money, and your second paragraph makes you sound drunk, isnt it funny that no one asked you to post in this thread yet you still registered and posted over 30 times just to piss people off

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:11 pm

Good one

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:13 pm

CompGeek I think I pissed him off now. Maybe he'll go away and let us get back to out American support for the troops back in the first page of this thread.

CompGeek83 · Post by **CompGeek83** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:15 pm

Originally posted by GoldenSpoon
CompGeek I think I pissed him off now. Maybe he'll go away and let us get back to out American support for the troops back in the first page of this thread.

yes I agree, mountainmanbrandon should repost in a new thread, this one has a bad odor

Perspective · Post by **Perspective** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:15 pm

sounds like your girlfriend is just there for the money, and your second paragraph makes you sound drunk, isnt it funny that no one asked you to post in this thread yet you still registered and posted over 30 times just to piss people off

Yeah, thats the ticket. Funny how your pissed. You dont respond to anything i say, you just say im 'drunk' or other cheap insults. Refer to dodging the issue above.

And MartianGod, bravo, see he slanders a country. And you know what, why would slandering Canada bother me? I also disagree with some of their policies, even though im a terribly proud Canadian. If someone points out unjust treatment, whether im part of it or not, and i agree, ill support them all the way. I dont buy everything im told blindly, critisism of my country or otherwise.

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:16 pm

and don't forget AMP. I've been smelling it since last night!

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:18 pm

Sounds to me Perspective your in the recruitment business. Need more supporters? Sure MartianGod had a very valid point but you took all of yours to a whole new insane level.

Perspective · Post by **Perspective** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:19 pm

btw..talking about troops

My bro is in the CND. reserves. The MAJORITY of soldier are in it, (this is irrespective of who they serve for) because of:
(a) The action, playing with big guns, blowing things up, etc.\
(b) Commaraderie (?)
(c) Paying job, other fringe benefits.

Few of the soldiers primary motives is "defending their country."

For most, thats just a footnote.

As evidence, if you had the occasion of asking one who just been shot in the face with a .40 caliber, seconds from dying, would they do it again to "defend his country", what do ya think he would say?

Noevo · Post by **Noevo** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:22 pm

Originally posted by Perspective

As evidence, if you had the occasion of asking one who just been shot in the face with a .40 caliber, seconds from dying, would they do it again to "defend his country", what do ya think he would say?

"I should have ducked"

Sorry, I just couldn't resist...

Perspective, SG....SG, Perspective. I think you have now "met" most of the regulars...

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:23 pm

Guess you don't know Jack S**T of the Military. I don't give a rats *** if your brother is in the Candian Reserves. I live up here remember? And your military hardware etc is well over 35 years old and depended upon the US military might. Even was said by the PM himself.

Get your facts straight.

CompGeek83 · Post by **CompGeek83** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:23 pm

Originally posted by Noevo

"I should have ducked"

Sorry, I just couldn't resist...

Perspective, SG....SG, Perspective. I think you have now "met" most of the regulars...

yeah, he has certainly made an impression, this is the first thread ive seen in quite a while to be up to 155 posts without a single mod having said anything about it

Perspective · Post by **Perspective** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:26 pm

don't give a rats *** if your brother is in the Candian Reserves. I live up here remember? And your military is hardware etc is well over 35 years old and depended upon the US military might. Even was said by the PM himself.

Damn right our stuff is ****. No kidding. Again, you dont respond, you just criticize OUR country, and i, again, agree with you.

But ya missed the point. The same holds true for any army. People generally go in there for fun, good times, etc...not under the presumption thell be killed defending their country.