Gas Prices at it again..

blebs · Post by **blebs** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:34 pm

Up to $3.499 now from $3.359 this morning.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:17 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Hyundai Accent 3 door 34 MPG Highway - $10,000
Chevy Aveo5 35 MPG Highway - $12,200
Kia Rio 36 MPG Highway - $12,300
Smart Car Pure Coupe 41 MPG Highway - $12,500
Ford Fiesta 40 MPG Highway - $13,400
Honda Civic 34 MPG Highway - $15,700
Chevy Cruze 36 MPG Highway - $17,000
Honda Insight Hybrid 43 MPG Highway - $18,300
Honda CRZ Hybrid 39 MPG Highway - $19,400
Ford Fusion Hybrid 38 MPG average - $20,000
Toyota Prius 50 MPG Average - $23,500
Hyundai Sonata Hybrid 40 MPG Highway - $26,000
Chevy Volt 90 MPG Average - $32,000 after tax credit

You dont have to pay more, theres a good list of them.

Good list but still not realistic for many to toss out, hell I've seen people with doors and windows ducttaped to get by cause they can't afford to put any into a pc of junk let alone buy a new one - then lets not forget those that can't finance for whatever the reason.

Prices here went up another 10 cents just over night!!

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:51 pm

Sava700 wrote:Good list but still not realistic for many to toss out, hell I've seen people with doors and windows ducttaped to get by cause they can't afford to put any into a pc of junk let alone buy a new one - then lets not forget those that can't finance for whatever the reason.

So you want cars cheaper than a roll of ducttape?

Its realistic, as realistic as things are going to get. If a person can't afford a window then no car will work for them. In that situation a person might need to use public transportation, bike to work, or get a ride from others. 10k for a new car is good, a year or 2 old and you can prob get one for a very nice price. Remember, its not every person's right to have a car.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:11 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:So you want cars cheaper than a roll of ducttape?

Its realistic, as realistic as things are going to get. If a person can't afford a window then no car will work for them. In that situation a person might need to use public transportation, bike to work, or get a ride from others. 10k for a new car is good, a year or 2 old and you can prob get one for a very nice price. Remember, its not every person's right to have a car.

many ways to go with this... I wish there was a easy answer but there isn't.

Oh another note, local news is saying around here alone prices have gone up about 20cents in just 1 DAY!!!! Something has to give but the bad thing is the summer is right around the corner so if they do drop I wonder how much if any at all.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:12 am

Sava700 wrote:many ways to go with this... I wish there was a easy answer but there isn't.

SO how much should a low end 36 MPG car cost in your eyes then?

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:04 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:SO how much should a low end 36 MPG car cost in your eyes then?

I think the key here is to get auto makers to not produce cars that are lower than say 40MPG and not just a average..I'm talking about Minimum of 40MPG even on stop and go traffic. No more SUV production or large vehicles that can't hit that mark and those that can't need to be junked and melted down to prevent others from buying them as used vehicles. We do this now for TV's for examples of LCD's vs CRT's now...all CRT's head to the recycle bin by way of the Dodo bird... LCD/LED's are where it's at.

Read today that those in Cali are now at $4/gallon once again... just how far will it go? I think Cali will see $5/gallon and many are saying if it hits that point then Taxi drivers,truck drivers, deliveries for basics will all stop and the economy will tank back into a recession.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:18 am

Sava700 wrote:I think the key here is to get auto makers to not produce cars that are lower than say 40MPG and not just a average..I'm talking about Minimum of 40MPG even on stop and go traffic. No more SUV production or large vehicles that can't hit that mark and those that can't need to be junked and melted down to prevent others from buying them as used vehicles. .

That pretty much unrealistic....minimum 40 mpg in stop 'n go, and no more SUV types?
Many people need SUV class vehicles..and larger. How can you stop making those? Esp up north here where we need 4wd for longer winter seasons. And working types that tow trailers. And heck..I need an SUV type just for my combination of home (family) and work....I need cargo carrying in the back. Petro SUVs have a difficult time nudging to 30mpg highway average...not to mention try to get at least that for stop 'n go. Eh sure we have hybrids which have that in their sites...but a hybrid SUV...I ain't paying 35 or 40+ grand for a hybrid underpowered SUV just to get 40mpg.

My Harley gets 46mpg though.

frostybear · Post by **frostybear** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:45 am

Free energy exists with your eyes closed...Feeling is all it takes.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:53 am

Sava700 wrote:I think the key here is to get auto makers to not produce cars that are lower than say 40MPG and not just a average..I'm talking about Minimum of 40MPG even on stop and go traffic. No more SUV production or large vehicles that can't hit that mark and those that can't need to be junked and melted down to prevent others from buying them as used vehicles.

LOL are you friggin serious?

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:26 pm

JBrazen wrote:LOL are you friggin serious?

Bound to happen at some point...maybe not on the scale in which I described but hey, something has to give. Electric SUV's are the way to go but as Cat said your going to pay out your butt for them and that's just more weight on the problem cause it's not cost efficient or easy to go green.

Go down to your local gas station that you know where people hang out alot and I'm sure they are all saying the same thing about prices being too high. Simple words to pull reserves or OPEC to produce more would open investors up a little and prices may ease and fall. I haven't seen the Obama Administration say a word about fuel prices or how they will have a negative effect on the economy cause he doesn't have to worry about it.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:29 pm

Sava, how much should a budget car cost if $10,000 is too much.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:56 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Sava, how much should a budget car cost if $10,000 is too much.

I really don't know.. there are standards and there are below standards in production costs. What I do know is fuel prices are way to high for a stable economy to rebound which I'm sure you can agree too that.

What's sad is all these recent price hikes are all because of Egypt and Libya when there isn't anything stopping a major amount of oil flow. All speculation and then you have this:

Oil fell 40 cents a barrel on news reports that Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi mightagree to a peace negotiations mediated by Venezuela's Hugo Chavez.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/03/markets ... 1&iref=BN1

I mean wtf.... if this is what you get for peace negotiations then perhaps those pushing for his removal should push harder. Bad thing is no matter what happens prices for gas won't come down anytime soon and no where near the pace they rose. Summer is right around the corner and its always a "driving season" excuse to raise them either way.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:04 pm

Trucks and SUVs that need to tow or haul heavy loads will be under 40 MPG for a good while. Hell, Ford's Escape hybrid can only pull 34-36 MPG wihtout a laod as is. And that seems to be the best of them by far.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:14 pm

Ah well, at least mortgage rates just took a good drop again....I'm gonna refinance and pull some cash out of the equity to do some major energy efficiency upgrades on the house.
New HVAC for second floor, new "heat as you go" high efficiency water heater, lifetime paint for the house, reinsulate the attic with that new thick foil stuff, new efficient pump system for the pool, efficiency washer/dryer. Tired of the 600-800 dollar a month electric bills.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:17 pm

600-800, damn. Do you run the pool nonstop when its open? Get that thing on a timer.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:18 pm

Yeah..non-stop when it's open. But even after we shut down the pool, the bills were still 500-600. I don't think we've had one under 500 yet.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:27 pm

Is that with electric heat?

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:34 pm

Yeah it's a heat pump with electric heat boost/AC....there was 1 per floor. Had first floor system replaced with a 95% efficiency propane heat system with a 16 seer AC system.
Planning on doing second floor next year...and the water heater (currently it's an electric heater/tank) but with the just now falling mortgage rates again...I'm thinking a re-fi with cash out is good to overhaul the whole house. Drop in interest rates, combined with the rebates you get from state/fed for converting....help make overall project quite attractive.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:40 pm

We have a gas water heater, and the dryer is gas too. Putting the pool on a timer helps us a lot in the summer, keeps the electric bill around 250-300. Without the timer the bill has gone up to 400. Then about 110-120 in the winter. The gas bill gets up to 250 at times in the winter.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:51 am

YARDofSTUF wrote: Putting the pool on a timer helps us a lot in the summer, keeps the electric bill around 250-300. Without the timer the bill has gone up to 400.

What do you generally do for times? Day time hours only? Looks like you have from 100-150 buck savings by doing so.

frostybear · Post by **frostybear** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:20 am

lol heaters...have people forgotten how to produce their own heat with the inner sun of their hearts already..tsk tsk.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:24 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Yeah..non-stop when it's open. But even after we shut down the pool, the bills were still 500-600. I don't think we've had one under 500 yet.

my average monthly utility bill is $180.00:
water $9.25
sewer $35.00
trash $21.55
gas $44.00 we have all gas appliances/central heat but not ac/no pool

electric $70.00
.

my wife uses candles around the house during the cold months,and it surprisingly heats the house pretty good.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:26 am

frostybear wrote:lol heaters...have people forgotten how to produce their own heat with the inner sun of their hearts already..tsk tsk.

lots of sex produces heat too !

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:54 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote:What do you generally do for times? Day time hours only? Looks like you have from 100-150 buck savings by doing so.

Most of the day, Like 6:00am to 11:00am and then 1:00pm to 7:00pm.

blebs · Post by **blebs** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:06 pm

Libya only accounts for 2% of all imported oil. Even if the maniac blows up all his oil fields, it shouldn't make a dent in the supply. This is all speculation and greed and nothing more.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:49 pm

blebs wrote:Libya only accounts for 2% of all imported oil. Even if the maniac blows up all his oil fields, it shouldn't make a dent in the supply. This is all speculation and greed and nothing more.

The gas price you pay today is the price that the gas station THINKS they'll have to pay the next time the tankers come in to fill up the tanks. While there are greedy, thieving gas stations out there ready willing and able to price gouge, it's more speculation based than anything else.

blebs · Post by **blebs** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:51 pm

Whatever it is that Uncle Ben is smoking, I want some of it. I want to escape reality too.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:03 pm

All it took was a hint of Libya having some peace and compromise and the price of oil fell even just 40cents on the $. Now if it took that I would imagin if the Obama Admin step up and say something along the lines that they will pull from the reserves or going to approach OPEC to pump more then I would imagin it would take a nice dive on prices.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:11 pm

Sava700 wrote:All it took was a hint of Libya having some peace and compromise and the price of oil fell even just 40cents on the $. Now if it took that I would imagin if the Obama Admin step up and say something along the lines that they will pull from the reserves or going to approach OPEC to pump more then I would imagin it would take a nice dive on prices.

Our reserves are so minimal it wont help, and Obama has no control or pull with OPEC.

blebs · Post by **blebs** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:12 pm

Sava700 wrote:All it took was a hint of Libya having some peace and compromise and the price of oil fell even just 40cents on the $. Now if it took that I would imagin if the Obama Admin step up and say something along the lines that they will pull from the reserves or going to approach OPEC to pump more then I would imagin it would take a nice dive on prices.

I think that's wishful thinking. These elitist are going to play this to the hilt so that they can make 200% profit on their speculated investments. They did it to us before and they're doing it again.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/01/markets ... htm?iid=EL

There are no legitimate supply concerns regarding oil right now.

Yes, Libya is a worry as rebels try to wrest control of the world's 15th largest exporter of oil from Moammar Gadhafi. (You say Khadafi. I say Qaddafi. Let's call the whole thing off.)

But even though there have been cutbacks in Libyan oil production, Saudi Arabia has increased its production to try and offset the loss of Libyan supply.

"The Saudis have said they will supply anything Libya can't. Even if you take other countries like Yemen and Oman out of the equation, there is not going to be a short-term fall in supply," said Doug Ober, CEO of Petroleum & Resources Corporation (PEO), a closed-end fund based in Baltimore that invests in energy stocks.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:20 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Our reserves are so minimal it wont help, and Obama has no control or pull with OPEC.

Amount in the reserves makes no difference..it's all in what you say that gets the greedy speculators to back off. Bush had some pull over OPEC even if it's just a phone call it says there is a attempt to help the raise in prices to get them back down so I'm sure Obama has something he can do even if it's just bringing it up. See, its all in what's being said right now that gets investors and speculators fired up or calm.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:26 pm

Speculators know that the reserves are no threat, so it wouldn't change hardly anything, and I don't remember Bush having any pull with OPEC either. When it comes to price specualtion, all info favors the cost going up, it doesn't work both ways. They can manipulate things or just add in more info to fit there needs.

blebs · Post by **blebs** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:42 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Speculators know that the reserves are no threat, so it wouldn't change hardly anything, and I don't remember Bush having any pull with OPEC either. When it comes to price specualtion, all info favors the cost going up, it doesn't work both ways. They can manipulate things or just add in more info to fit there needs.

Well my opinion is, we start taxing these speculators on their speculated prices and see just how high they want to go then.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:12 pm

blebs wrote:Well my opinion is, we start taxing these speculators on their speculated prices and see just how high they want to go then.

Well I'm not sure how you could actually tax that but ignoring that for a moment, how exactly does that help? You expect to see any of that tax money? They could just speculate higher to make up for that. Then it would cost us even more and they would make their cut and thanks to the tax teh government would make some cash for themselves as well.

blebs · Post by **blebs** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:27 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:Well I'm not sure how you could actually tax that but ignoring that for a moment, how exactly does that help? You expect to see any of that tax money? They could just speculate higher to make up for that. Then it would cost us even more and they would make their cut and thanks to the tax teh government would make some cash for themselves as well.

Hmm, guess your right. We need to find a way to profit off of them for a change.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:03 am

Found this in a big article today - certainly doesn't look good for even next generation unless we can produce alternatives that don't cost an arm and leg to shift to NOW, not 20years from now.

The critical player is Saudi Arabia, which just increased production to compensate for Libyan losses on the global market. But don’t expect this pattern to hold forever. Assuming the royal family survives the current round of upheavals, it will undoubtedly have to divert more of its daily oil output to satisfy rising domestic consumption levels and fuel local petrochemical industries that could provide a fast-growing, restive population with better-paying jobs.

From 2005 to 2009, Saudis used about 2.3 million barrels daily, leaving about 8.3 million barrels for export. Only if Saudi Arabia continues to provide at least this much oil to international markets could the world even meet its anticipated low-end oil needs. This is not likely to occur. The Saudi royals have expressed reluctance to raise output much above 10 million barrels per day, fearing damage to their remaining fields and so a decline in future income for their many progeny. At the same time, rising domestic demand is expected to consume an ever-increasing share of Saudi Arabia’s net output. In April 2010, the chief executive officer of state-owned Saudi Aramco, Khalid al-Falih, predicted that domestic consumption could reach a staggering 8.3 million barrels per day by 2028, leaving only a few million barrels for export and ensuring that, if the world can’t switch to other energy sources, there will be petroleum starvation.

In other words, if one traces a reasonable trajectory from current developments in the Middle East, the handwriting is already on the wall. Since no other area is capable of replacing the Middle East as the world’s premier oil exporter, the oil economy will shrivel -- and with it, the global economy as a whole.

Consider the recent rise in the price of oil just a faint and early tremor heralding the oilquake to come. Oil won’t disappear from international markets, but in the coming decades it will never reach the volumes needed to satisfy projected world demand, which means that, sooner rather than later, scarcity will become the dominant market condition. Only the rapid development of alternative sources of energy and a dramatic reduction in oil consumption might spare the world the most severe economic repercussions.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/ ... Content.13

blebs · Post by **blebs** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:22 am

Start drilling right here at home. Enough of this catering to foreign producers and the silly green environmentalists.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:32 am

blebs wrote:Start drilling right here at home. Enough of this catering to foreign producers and the silly green environmentalists.

I agree.. but too many people against it or don't want to see a drill in their back yard or views. Much the same with Wind Turbines, around here you have people fighting a wind farm that will be on a mountain 5miles away that they feel they can barely see that will make their views bad. I do believe many area's here are relaxing on single turbines for a single home though so that's a start.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:23 am

Most homes can't benefit from a wind turbine though. People think, oh its really windy here a lot, I could get one of those and power my home. But they don't realize just how much wind they need, and how regularly they need it, for that to be a valid idea.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:51 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:Most homes can't benefit from a wind turbine though. People think, oh its really windy here a lot, I could get one of those and power my home. But they don't realize just how much wind they need, and how regularly they need it, for that to be a valid idea.

Solar is another option, Hydro if they have a creek,river on property, Geothermo can not only heat but also power in some instances.. many options cept each one is very expensive. Prices for these types of things need to come way down to make it more of a benefit to move over. In the mean time we need lower fuel prices while building on these newly invented alternatives for at least the next 20years. Prices can swing 20-30cents back and forth but not $2-$3.