SG Broadband Community

So why again are you changeing the subject. You get no arguement out of me that Saddam gone is a good thing. Back to subject please. Although not caring that the President may have lied and then accusing Kerry of flip flopping and makeing a mountian out of a mole hill because he changed his mind is a bit on the humm....what's that word I'm looking for?

Originally posted by downhill
So why again are you changeing the subject. You get no arguement out of me that Saddam gone is a good thing. Back to subject please.

not changing subject you did...this thread was abotu Flip Flopping....that has nothing to do with it

Time to merge the two....it's going no where is it?

Night GH..have a great slumber.

Originally posted by downhill
Time to merge the two....it's going no where is it?

Night GH..have a great slumber.

Good night

but not going to sleep anytime soon..playing Everquest and trying to kill Xegony God of Air..

Originally posted by Ghosthunter
Good night

but not going to sleep anytime soon..playing Everquest and trying to kill Xegony God of Air..

WOOT and Xegony is down...aftger 8 hours of trying


yeah i know this has nothign to do with the thread and half the ppl have no clue what am i talking but you have no idea how hard this was..LOL

now going to bed

Originally posted by FunK
As for the Appropriations link..

That is the DEMOCRAT'S Appropriations Website..

http://www.house.gov/appropriations_democrats/

The CORRECT Website for the Appropriations Committee is

http://appropriations.house.gov/

No ****, Sherlock.
http://www.house.gov/appropriations_DEMOCRATS/

If you want to link to anything to prove your point, choose a more unbiased source..

It's a BUDGET. It's all give and take my friend. Someone is going to get less money. That's the way it is.. When a Dem is in office, the Republicans

will be skinning the pres for the cuts that he suggests while trying to pilot the ship. It's the nature of the beast in our political world. it's also

interesting that one can find ANYTHING on the net written by ANYONE and none of it has to have any factual backing...

Funk, I agree that someone's always going to get less money. But if you tell them the opposite, the its a Lie.

As for no factual backing, *shrug*, the quotes an be found on whitehouse.gov...

Tagged quotes are from http://www.house.gov/appropriations_dem ... onfilm.htm

"This is a hospital, but it's also - it's a place full of love. And I was most touched by meeting the parents and the kids and the nurses and the docs,

all of whom are working hard to save lives. I want to thank the moms who are here. Thank you very much for you hospitality…There's a lot of talk about

budgets right now, and I'm here to talk about the budget. My job as the President is to submit a budget to the Congress and to set priorities, and one

of the priorities that we've talked about is making sure the health care systems are funded.” – Egleston Children's Hospital, Atlanta, Georgia 3/1/01

From http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 301-6.html
(whitehouse.gov good enough for you?)
"This is a hospital, but it's also -- it's a place full of love. And I was most touched by meeting the parents and the kids and the nurses and the

docs, all of whom are working hard to save lives. I want to thank the moms who are here. Thank you very much for you hospitality. And, Tommy, I'll

get to you in a minute. (Laughter.)
There's a lot of talk about budgets right now, and I'm here to talk about the budget. My job as the President is to submit a budget to the

Congress and to set priorities, and one of the priorities that we've talked about is making sure the health care systems are funded."

“We're dealing with first-time responders to make sure they've got what's needed to be able to respond. “ – Bush, 3/27/2002

from http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 327-7.html
" So, in other words, what we've done is we're making the borders more secure, we're dealing with first-time responders to make sure they've got what's

needed to be able to respond. As well, I understand how it works in rural parts of our country, like Georgia. I've got a pretty good handle on what

happens in rural Georgia. I cut my teeth on rural Georgia in 1968 and '69 as a pilot trainee in Valdosta, Georgia, home of the mighty Bulldogs, I think

they're called."

“I said when I was running for President, I supported ethanol, and I meant it. (Applause.) I support it now, because not only do I know it's important

for the ag sector of our economy, it's an important part of making sure we become less reliant on foreign sources of energy.” – Bush at South Dakota

Ethanol Plant 4/24/02

From http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 424-3.html
" I said when I was running for President, I supported ethanol, and I meant it. (Applause.) I support it now, because not only do I know it's important

for the ag sector of our economy, it's an important part of making sure we become less reliant on foreign sources of energy. (Applause.) I appreciate

Senator Daschle working on the RFS standard."

Under the headline “Bush lauds Albuquerque woman for volunteerism” the AP reported on Bush’s visit to New Mexico to tout Lucy Salazar, a volunteer with

the Even Start literacy program. “One of the things I try to do when I go into communities is herald soldiers in the armies of compassion, those souls

who have heard the call to love a neighbor like you'd like to be loved yourself, and have followed through on that call; Lucy Salazar is a retired

federal government worker. She teaches reading skills to pre-kindergarten and kindergarten children -- incredibly important…And oftentimes, citizens

such as her never get the praise they deserve. Lucy, thank you for coming and representing thousands of people like you.” - Bush, 4/29/02

From http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 429-1.html
"I also want to tell you about a lady I met named Lucy Salazar. Where's Lucy, is she here? Lucy, thank you for coming. (Applause.) It's kind of off the

subject, but really not off the subject, because one of the things I try to do when I go into communities is herald soldiers in the armies of

compassion, those souls who have heard the call to love a neighbor like you'd like to be loved yourself, and have followed through on that call; the

selfless citizens whose compassion for their neighbor is really one of the things that makes America so strong and powerful, particularly as we stand

tall in the face of evil.
I like to tell my fellow citizens that if you're interested in fighting evil which, by the way, we're going to do -- (applause). But one way to help is

do some good. And it's that collective good that will define the true value and character of our country.
And Lucy Salazar is a retired federal government worker. She teaches reading skills to pre-kindergarten and kindergarten children -- incredibly

important. She helps those with disabilities participate in the fine and performing arts. She volunteers through her church. She is a great citizen. And

oftentimes, citizens such as her never get the praise they deserve. Lucy, thank you for coming and representing thousands of people like you. (Applause

.) "

"Part of being a secure America is to encourage homeownership." He also went on to talk about his experience meeting the residents saying, "You know,

today I went to the -- to some of the home -- met some of the homeowners in this newly built homes and all you've got to do is shake their hand and

listen to their stories and watch the pride that they exhibit when they show you the kitchen and the stairs...They showed me their home. They didn't

show me somebody else's home, they showed me their home. And they are so proud to own their home and I want to thank them for their hospitality, because

it helps the American people really understand what it means."
– Bush, 6/17/02

From http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 617-2.html
" But my attitude is, if somebody can't find work and they want to work, we've got to continue to work on expanding the job base. And part of economic

security is owning your own home. (Applause.) Part of being a secure America is to encourage homeownership. So somebody can say, this is my home,

welcome to my home.
.
.
.
You know, today I went to the -- to some of the home -- met some of the homeowners in this newly built homes and all you've got to do is shake their

hand and listen to their stories and watch the pride that they exhibit when they show you the kitchen and the stairs -- so people like Ken Beatty, who

is an environmentalist; or Al Smith, a probation officer; or Geary Jefferson a data base administrator; or Darrin West, an Atlanta police officer,

Tamika Henry -- Tomika Henry Cole.
These are all people that I've met; they've come over here today. They showed me their home. They didn't show me somebody else's home, they showed me

their home. And they are so proud to own their home and I want to thank them for their hospitality, because it helps the American people really

understand what it means. "

“We're working hard to make sure your job is easier, that the port is safer. The Customs Service is working with overseas ports and shippers to improve

its knowledge of container shipments, assessing risk so that we have a better feel of who we ought to look at, what we ought to worry about.” – Bush, 6

/24/02]

From http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 624-1.html
" And we're working hard to make sure your job is easier, that the port is safer. Here's some examples of what's taking place. The Customs Service is

working with overseas ports and shippers to improve its knowledge of container shipments, assessing risk so that we have a better feel of who we ought

to look at, what we ought to worry about. Inspectors here can focus on high risk shipments. America will be better protected."

“We've got to do more to protect worker pensions.” – Bush, 8/7/02

From http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 807-1.html
" And speaking about that, we've got to do more to protect worker pensions. Right now, too many workers are locked into plans that force them to hold a

large portion of their accounts in their company stock. There are a lot of plans that won't let people diversify. And that's not right. I believe

workers ought to be able to diversify after three years in their company's plan. I think we ought to trust workers with their own money. (Applause.)"

Etc.

I think you're missing the point.. Again, it's not what the pres said. Noone can debate the quotes you point out. From reading them, it sounds as though the pres is trying to do his job. The questions about the website and it's agenda is the issue.. I try not to quote Limbaugh when making my case against Kerry..

The Pres says, let's work to help hospitals and allow people to diversify their 401k...

The republicans applaude and the dems start thinking of ways to stone wall the motion.

If these things AREN'T getting done, who is really to blame? We have checks and balances. Not everything that the pres WANTS will get passed to law. Surely you're not blaming Bush when his SUGGESTIONS to the LAWMAKERS don't come to fruition.

Far be it from the Democrats to share any of the blame when these things fall flat on their faces...

I think you're missing the point.. Again, it's not what the pres said. Noone can debate the quotes you point out. From reading them, it sounds as though the pres is trying to do his job. The questions about the website and it's agenda is the issue.. I try not to quote Limbaugh when making my case against Kerry..

The Pres says, let's work to help hospitals and allow people to diversify their 401k...

The republicans applaude and the dems start thinking of ways to stone wall the motion.

If these things AREN'T getting done, who is really to blame? We have checks and balances. Not everything that the pres WANTS will get passed to law. Surely you're not blaming Bush when his SUGGESTIONS to the LAWMAKERS don't come to fruition.

Far be it from the Democrats to share any of the blame when these things fall flat on their faces...

I take it you didn't read the web site. It wasn't comparing what Bush said to what actually happened, it was comparing what Bush tells the public to what he actually proposes. The president says, let's work to help hospitals, but HIS first budget proposed the cutting of grants to childrens hospital. He say his budget will give $3.5 billion in 'new' money to first responders, but he doesn't mention that it will also cut more than $1 billion from existing grant to them. He say he supports ethanol, but then tries to eliminate funding for bioenergy programs.

Your right, Bush cannot (and should not) be held 100% liable for what actually happens, but this isn't about that. This is about what he proposes and what he tells the people he proposes. You can't tell me those aren't lies.

Originally posted by rareq
This is about what he proposes and what he tells the people he proposes. You can't tell me those aren't lies.

No, he can't. But Bush lies with conviction, dammit! CONVICTION!


Whereas Kerry FLIP-FLOPS.


FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS!!!



When oh when will you Democrats open your eyes and see the light of day?????

My suggestion is that cooler heads at SG create, find, or just have a document that simply and succinctly summarizes American government so that certain members are saved from demonstrating their ignorance about legislative process in the US.

eh?

While it takes a little time and effrot to look up the facts, real change is effected by the truth and the WHOLE truth. Its very easy to gloss over facts. Lets make March SG look deeper month and stop flame wars. And we all make ourselfs look and sound smarter. All this can be yours for just five minutes of research from reputable and complete sources. CONTEXT and ENTIRETY people, lets get big picture views.

eh?

He said she said the dog said, its Canada's fault I think.

eh?

Originally posted by jayyy
No, he can't. But Bush lies with conviction, dammit! CONVICTION!


Whereas Kerry FLIP-FLOPS.


FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIPFLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS FLIP FLOPS!!!



When oh when will you Democrats open your eyes and see the light of day?????

Yours are obviously closed because the right candidate is not going to be on the ballot....Howard Dean WAS the best person for the job but he shot himself in the foot with the media. He challenged the media even with his grassroots internet campaign. This proves that the media wants to shove their own spun up BS stories down out throats....Jayyy....we represent the internet community. Why can't you see that you are part of that? I thought you would have embraced Dean.

Dean will be my write-in for President. If you take a real close look at Dean and his organization, they are more aligned with us than you can imagine. He's a liberal on social issues and a fiscal conservative. He strikes the best balance imho and would be great for America.

But once again....we are getting one of the good ole boys in John Kerry...and John Kerry is one of the good ole boys Jayyy.

In the spirit of One thenumber2's more level-headed, mature tone, here's my serious word on Bush:


Years ago, the right went on a consistent attack against Clinton. Some charges, such as the Whitewater allegations or the "Clinton murders" were wither discredited or dismissed off-hand. others stuck, and in the case of Monica Lewinsky, decisively proven.

Some member of the far right were beside themselves. "Look, they seemed to say, we've PROVEN it. He's a LIAR, it can't be denied anymore."

Much to their frustration, the public didn't seem to care. Clintons approval ratings stayed pinned at 60%, and in the mid-term election the republicans lost their majority and Newt Gingrich met his maker. they were so obssessed with proving their point that they lost touch with the rest of the country.

I'm prefacing the anti-bush rhetoric with this because I want to make a point- there's no accounting for whether or not people will care about a politcians shortcomings or biases. I acknowledge that.

I'm not saying you should care about the case against Bush. But I think people need to understand what it is in the first place.

Until recently, I never felt that the greater american public really understood what bush was all about. He campaigned as a "compassionate conservative" and a "uniter, not a divider" that would cross party lines and end the partisanship that had made american politics so vicious throughout the 90's.

But thats not what he is. He been the most devisive president in history. And whether you support or oppse him whole-heartedly, he represents a major shift in the direction of the US. People need to understand that.


Conservatives vs. People like Bush

The conservative argument against the democrats seems to go like this:
Democrats are professional politicians. therefore, they have a bias toward big, interfering government, because thats their job. If there was no government, theye'd be out of work.
So if you oppose big government, oppose democrats and all others that would choose to expand its size and power.

While I don't fully agree, I understand this argument. And living in canada, I've seen liberal-ish, government-ish intitaives that would make even Che Guerva's eyes roll. I think its a valid argument even if I don't agree. I can see the other side.


However, these conservatives seem to operate under the assumption that in lieu of "professional beaureaucrats", people would be better off voting for "self-made men", that have made their fortune in business, and therefore don't need government. they elect them to public service of limiting public service as much as possible, and opposing any bills that would increase their own roll.

I think a lot of the congressional republicans that came to power in the 90's fall into that category.


But I don't believe Bush is a "true" conservative first and foremost. While that might be the way he might vote as a private citizens, I don't believe its the driving force behind the body of his policy.

The Bush adminsitration has been extremely divisive in american politics. Rove made it clear that he thought that in a polarized, 50/50 nation, the votes of the religious right could be what tips the balance. A few years ago, a concerted effort was made to rally their support- a newsweek story about how Bush supposedly reads the Bible each and every morning, an appearance at Bob Jones university, a proposed amendment to the consitution to ban gay marriages, etc.

The greater public seems to feel now- quite rightly- that these issues addres the concerns of politcially active religious groups rather than their own. But given how open that Rove has been about his goals, I think a lot of people are being naive in assumig that Bush's true convictions lie here.

I think there's something those conservatives didn't take in account- that by focusing on "big government" as the root of all evil, they could let the nation fall prey to a group of men with other, even more destructive allegiances.

Bush raised 120 million for this election, more than at any point in history. That money wasn't a grassroots generation- that money came from busimesses, and they didn't donate it out of charity, they did it as an investment. Bush makes sure they get tehir returns.


Ever since his days as a failed businessman, Bush has served as a tie between big business and the government's money.

His prescription drug proposal is little more than a 400 billion give-away to pharmaceutical companies

His proposal to give illegal immigrants work visas was a way to give businesses labor for under the minimum wage, and avoid having to give them any benefits or pensions.

His administrations' report that "Outsourcing is good for the american economy in the longterm" was a spin on the fact that they support american jobs going to china- because their real allegiances lie with the businesses that fund their campaigns, not the american people.

His proposal to go to Mars is actually something that Halliburton has been lobbying for for years.

His insistence that america has an energy crisis was an excuse to drill in a wildlife park in alaska.

His insistences he cared about education, social security, all the rest- those were all lies. The only time you'll see bush put money into a social program domestically is when the money can go into the pockets of business.

He spends massive amounts of money, as much or more than any democrat. But unlike them, he won't even pay for it in his budgets. He gives all that money away on credit, stays popular with conservatives by lowering taxes more and more, and leaves future generations saddled with the debt of his irresponsibility.

Originally posted by UOD

But once again....we are getting one of the good ole boys in John Kerry...and John Kerry is one of the good ole boys..........

aint this the truth!!!

while everyone bickers between themselves about which one of these two are the lesser evil, the fact remains.....we'll still get evil with them.

hate to sound as if i'm wearing a tinfoil hat, but we have no choice here, the choice has been made for us (with these two candidates) already.

we're just going to legitimize it when we vote, and pat ourselves on the back.

Originally posted by UOD
....Jayyy....we represent the internet community. Why can't you see that you are part of that? I thought you would have embraced Dean.

I *do* embrace Dean. Dean is what got all of this started. So you should follow Deans' advice to his suppporters.

Dean backs Kerry now, and he's told his supporters to do the same. He's said that a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush- and he knows that now that he's lost the nomination, a vote for him is the same thing. Don't waste your vote.

A vote for the Democrats is not the same thing as a vote for Bush. People need to wake up and realize that.

Originally posted by The_Lurker
aint this the truth!!!

while everyone bickers between themselves about which one of these two are the lesser evil, the fact remains.....we'll still get evil with them.

hate to sound as if i'm wearing a tinfoil hat, but we have no choice here, the choice has been made for us (with these two candidates) already.

we're just going to legitimize it when we vote, and pat ourselves on the back.

Yup...it's nothing more than a fight for power amongst the powerful.

Originally posted by jayyy
I *do* embrace Dean. Dean is what got all of this started. So you should follow Deans' advice to his suppporters.

Dean backs Kerry now, and he's told his supporters to do the same. He's said that a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush- and he knows that now that he's lost the nomination, a vote for him is the same thing. Don't waste your vote.

A vote for the Democrats is not the same thing as a vote for Bush. People need to wake up and realize that.

That's where I beg to differ Jayyy. Dean should have said FU to Kerry and pulled the trump card....the bullet vote. Everyone writes in for Dean and ONLY for Dean. It makes me so mad I want to hit someone with a hammer.

I refuse to support Kerry because I'm tired of settling for less. The American people deserve the best.

Originally posted by UOD
That's where I beg to differ Jayyy. Dean should have said FU to Kerry and pulled the trump card....the bullet vote. Everyone writes in for Dean and ONLY for Dean. It makes me so mad I want to hit someone with a hammer.

I refuse to support Kerry because I'm tired of settling for less. The American people deserve the best.

If you're voting for Dean against his own wishes, then I'd say I understand his message a lot better than you do.

Dean understands that if people stay fragmented Bush wins. And he undertands that Bush isn't just "more of the same" Bush is much, much worse.

Originally posted by Onethenumber2


eh?

Lets make March SG look deeper month and stop flame wars. And we all make ourselfs look and sound smarter.
eh?

He said she said the dog said, its Canada's fault I think.

eh?

Wonderful job you're doing to keep the flames down and the tone dignified there, Mature One.

I love Irony

(and ambiguous comments)

In comedy and good nature of course