Nasa reporting lost communications with shuttle...

Needlefreak · Post by **Needlefreak** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:49 am

Lotta that stuff...The Israeli on board also flew in the attack on Iraqs nuclear reactor..

cybotron r_9 · Post by **cybotron r_9** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:54 am

Shuttle takes first Israeli into space

Ilan Ramon (Colonel, Israel Air Force)
Payload Specialist

Terrorists? You bet. IMHO

and even if it were terrorists do you think the government would tell the truth or say it was just a misplaced heat tile or some other BS

Needlefreak · Post by **Needlefreak** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:02 am

Originally posted by cybotron r_9
Shuttle takes first Israeli into space Ilan Ramon (Colonel, Israel Air Force)
Payload Specialist

Terrorists? You bet. IMHO

and even if it were terrorists do you think the government would tell the truth or say it was just a misplaced heat tile or some other BS

I think is this day and age they'll probally say is was sabotage by (insert whoever we hate) just to not admit they fudged up on the sheild..

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:08 am

damn........ <sniffing back tears>

shant,
david

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:11 am

If anything...we need to spend money on safety.

First, the shuttle needs an ejection module. We have combat aircraft that have ejection modules. Expensive...but necessary imho.

Second, we need a space station....it can serve as a safe haven. If something is detected on launch then the astronauts can go to the station, dock, and inspect. If something is wrong. They stay there until it can be fixed.

Third, we need advanced AI systems/troubleshooters. If engineers say that something is good...let the AI computers run it through a barage of tests and models to see if their theories can hold up. We need to focus on outcomes. AI can help us chart these possibilities.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:16 am

that really sucks

ya know theres a risk of it happening but u just dont think it ever will.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:18 am

Originally posted by UOD
If anything...we need to spend money on safety.

First, the shuttle needs an ejection module. We have combat aircraft that have ejection modules. Expensive...but necessary imho.

Second, we need a space station....it can serve as a safe haven. If something is detected on launch then the astronauts can go to the station, dock, and inspect. If something is wrong. They stay there until it can be fixed.

Third, we need advanced AI systems/troubleshooters. If engineers say that something is good...let the AI computers run it through a barage of tests and models to see if their theories can hold up. We need to focus on outcomes. AI can help us chart these possibilities.

Yep, these are all needed...

The unique situation here as compared to the Challenger explosion is the fact that there are still astronauts up in space that depend on the shuttle to get back to earth. We can't just suspend the shuttle missions...

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:31 am

Those are probably near impossible though.....the CNN guy started hinting in on that, harping on "why wasn't there one"...but if you think of it, try ejecting something while the main object is traveling 'tween 15k and 20k mph, it would be even more catostrophic. They were in a transitional state speedwise, and in the atmosphere, were I really think an ejection capsule would be an impossible feat.

ScottE · Post by **ScottE** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:32 am

The ejection module would only be effective during launch. I don't think it would be feasable to be able to eject this pod from the craft at 200,000+ ft traveling at 17,000 mph. Keep in mind that you still have to maintain a precise angle of attack in order to keep from burning up. Not saying that it's a bad idea I just don't think it would have helped in this instance.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:39 am

An ejection module would not have been practical in this scenario...that is why I suggested 3 things.

They should have never attempted re-entry if damage was discoverd post launch. They should dock with a space station and investigate.

Dakota · Post by **Dakota** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:44 am

I just got up and read this on the news. Had been watching cable TV channels and had no idea this had happened. This is so, so sad. I am in shock as I watch all this. Looks like the damage to the wing on takeoff will be the ultimate cause. The thought that it's terrorism of some sort is just ludicrous.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:46 am

Originally posted by Dakota
I just got up and read this on the news. Had been watching cable TV channels and had no idea this had happened. This is so, so sad. I am in shock as I watch all this. Looks like the damage to the wing on takeoff will be the ultimate cause. The thought that it's terrorism of some sort is just ludicrous.

Yep, given the conditions at which it happened, I'm inclined to believe that the shuttle suffered a structural failure (perhaps because of the debris from the launch), and something gave. Perhaps the wing (the first large piece of debris that shows on the video) broke off, causing the shuttle to go into an uncontrollable spin, breaking off other parts of the shuttle...

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:47 am

I just woke up, and saw the news.

My condolences go out to the families.

I dont think it was terrorism at all, just an accident, which is a always a very high risk when doing space travel.

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:49 am

This sucks.

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:49 am

Originally posted by davy19
I just woke up, and saw the news.

My condolences go out to the families.

I dont think it was terrorism at all, just an accident, which is a always a very high risk when doing space travel.

me too

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:54 am

Originally posted by John
I highly doubt terrorist involvement. NO way IMHO.

i agree there too..how could they have with that kind of security?

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:57 am

Very sad

Not a good morning so far

mwkirchner · Post by **mwkirchner** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:58 am

They just made an "OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT" on TV and have said that the shuttle did indeed explode.

I realize that we all knew this ... but now they have made it official.

This is a very sad day in America as well as around the world.

I feel so sorry for the families who lost their loved ones in this terrible tragedy.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:59 am

Gotta check the tube again, are they showing any major debris found yet? Wondering what kind of area large debris may have fallen in.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:00 pm

I agree. To even suggest terrorism is just ridiculous.

Space exploration is a dangerous business.

We need to pick up and press on.

cybotron r_9 · Post by **cybotron r_9** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:02 pm

The experiments involve a menagerie of specimens: cancer cells, fungi, rodents, spiders, bees and silkworms, as well as the astronauts themselves. They will have sensors to measure their physiological changes in orbit.

maybe it was some sort of Physiological metamorphysis that caused the rodents to rebel against there captors and eat through some wiring that brought the shuttle down...just a thought

RoundEye · Post by **RoundEye** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:02 pm

This is such tragic event.

We can give up ever having a nuclear powered space program. Opponents will use this as a prime example of the dangers, and what would happen if the space craft blew up.

Just think what it would be like right now if that shuttle was nuclear powered and had spread radiated waste all over Texas and Louisiana.

The poor families of the astronauts.

ScottE · Post by **ScottE** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:04 pm

Originally posted by Indy
Yep, given the conditions at which it happened, I'm inclined to believe that the shuttle suffered a structural failure (perhaps because of the debris from the launch), and something gave. Perhaps the wing (the first large piece of debris that shows on the video) broke off, causing the shuttle to go into an uncontrollable spin, breaking off other parts of the shuttle...

From the video the shuttle looks pretty stable during reentry. I think it's either a failure of the reentry computers causing the shuttle to enter at too steep and angle thus causing the shuttle to burn up. Or Enough of the tiles fell off during the launch phase that during reentry the heat cause a ripple effect that caused more tiles to fall off (The first sign of breakup on the video) causing the shuttle to break up (second sign of debris) then the whole thing just goes up( the final part of that video when there are multiple burning trails of debris) Just specualtion at this point though. It wasn't terrorism the shuttle was over 3x higher than the highest SAM is capable of shooting. And was going way to fast for any SAM to keep up with it.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:05 pm

Originally posted by RoundEye

The poor families of the astronauts.

Yeah, I couldn't even begin to fathom the moment down there....families joyous and excited about a triumphant return of their loved ones...then something appears to be wrong. Now imagine the NASA official who had to quickly usher the awaiting families into a room elsewhere...when the chaos began.

Oh man...oh man.

Set · Post by **Set** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:06 pm

Man

I had to turn it off they where showing ther pics and going on and on about the them exploding 2,000 + feet

What a terible thing my Heart gos out to the love ones

ScottE · Post by **ScottE** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:06 pm

Originally posted by YeOldeStonecat
Gotta check the tube again, are they showing any major debris found yet? Wondering what kind of area large debris may have fallen in.

Yeah they showed a piece of debris on a road somewhere in Texas.

Dakota · Post by **Dakota** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:14 pm

Latest is they say debris has been reported from Mexico through Arkansas.

RoundEye · Post by **RoundEye** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:18 pm

http://www.nasa.gov/

NASA STATEMENT ON LOSS OF COMMUNICATIONS WITH COLUMBIA

A Space Shuttle contingency has been declared in Mission Control, Houston, as a result of the loss of communication with the Space Shuttle Columbia at approximately 9 a.m. EST Saturday as it descended toward a landing at the Kennedy Space Center, Fla. It was scheduled to touchdown at 9:16 a.m. EST.

Communication and tracking of the shuttle was lost at 9 a.m. EST at an altitude of about 203,000 feet in the area above north central Texas. At the time communications were lost. The shuttle was traveling approximately 12,500 miles per hour (Mach 18). No communication and tracking information were received in Mission Control after that time.

Search and rescue teams in the Dallas-Fort Worth and in portions of East Texas have been alerted. Any debris that is located in the area that may be related to the Space Shuttle contingency should be avoided and may be hazardous as a result of toxic propellants used aboard the shuttle. The location of any possible debris should immediately be reported to local authorities.

Flight controllers in Mission Control have secured all information, notes and data pertinent to today's entry and landing by Space Shuttle Columbia and continue to methodically proceed through contingency plans.

News media covering the Space Shuttle should stay tuned to NASA Television, which is broadcast on AMC-2, transponder 9C, C-Band, located at 85 degrees West longitude. The frequency is 3880.0 MHz. Polarization is vertical and audio is monaural at 6.8 MHz. Reporters can also go to any NASA center newsroom to monitor the situation.

New information, including the times and locations of press briefings, will be posted to this page

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:27 pm

I just found it ironic we were talking about the camcorder on model rockets on a thread earlier this morning.

http://forums.speedguide.net/showthread ... did=104867

Had pics from the rocket down to earth. Now were are all watching pics from the earth looking up at the re-entry of the space shuttle and the following catastrophe.

RoundEye · Post by **RoundEye** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:35 pm

Local AM radio is reporting that body parts have been found in Sabine Parish Louisiana.

This is so horrible.

In fact some of you may be able to hear it, WWL 870 AM. It's one of the strongest stations in the US.

njeddiek · Post by **njeddiek** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:38 pm

This is a terrible tragedy. My prayers go out to the families of the astronauts. With so many successful launches and Landings people forget how dangerous space flight is.
I was a senior in high school in Florida and witnessed the Explosion of the Challenger. Something I will never forget.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:41 pm

Originally posted by YeOldeStonecat
I just found it ironic we were talking about the camcorder on model rockets on a thread earlier this morning.

http://forums.speedguide.net/showthread ... did=104867

Had pics from the rocket down to earth. Now were are all watching pics from the earth looking up at the re-entry of the space shuttle and the following catastrophe.

Not only that....last night I was reading multiple articles on space flight....I'm always intrigued by the subject. The "For Alll Mankind" video which is stickied re-ignited my interest.

I found a beautiful pic of the Earth being viewed from the shuttle.

I posted it as my desktop background.

Then, i went to bed for the night. Woke up this morning after having a horrible nightmare of a fire.

this happened right before I woke up and came to SG......

Very sad day.

I still consider their mission a success though. They went to space and did their jobs. Hopefully the data they collected was sent back to Mission control and will one day be used in the advancement of mankind in space.

I don't think they died in vain.....

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:49 pm

Originally posted by cybotron r_9
maybe it was some sort of Physiological metamorphysis that caused the rodents to rebel against there captors and eat through some wiring that brought the shuttle down...just a thought

YA... blame it on the rodents... pfft
i just saw some amature video and it looked like it impacted another object IMO

sorry for the loss of life and loss to space program

Krazy Kraut · Post by **Krazy Kraut** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:49 pm

hopefully the millions of dollars spent on crew safety after challenger

the crew might still be alive

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:55 pm

Originally posted by RoundEye
This is such tragic event.

We can give up ever having a nuclear powered space program. Opponents will use this as a prime example of the dangers, and what would happen if the space craft blew up.

Just think what it would be like right now if that shuttle was nuclear powered and had spread radiated waste all over Texas and Louisiana.

The poor families of the astronauts.

i do feel bad about it but i really hope with do head to nuclear power still.

RoundEye · Post by **RoundEye** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:02 pm

NASA stated that we would lose one in every seventy-five shuttles.

This was the 113th shuttle mission and the 28th flight of the Columbia.

Not the best record.

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:20 pm

They are talking about a tire pressure problem. During the last bits of communication the space center acknowledged a message about tire pressure sent by the shuttle. They were having trouble understanding communications from the shuttle. Shortly after this they lost communication.

This is just so sad

Bouncer · Post by **Bouncer** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:25 pm

Spaceflight is fundamentally a dangerous excercise. There will always be losses. There are so many forces conspiring against success on any level that every successful mission is almost a miracle.

This going to happen again and again. We cannot let it dampen our spirit for exploration. The astronauts themselves would insist on it. That is what truly separates mankind from the beasts in the forest. It's being willing to take that chance, to see what's over the next horizon.

God Speed Columbia.

Thomas Blakely

Dakota · Post by **Dakota** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:31 pm

Originally posted by RoundEye
NASA stated that we would lose one in every seventy-five shuttles.

This was the 113th shuttle mission and the 28th flight of the Columbia.

Not the best record.

Ahh but the Challenger was a technical faux pas and should never had been launched to begin with. Their 1-in-75 number is still good. If and only if you can even call that good.

My long-term fear is we'll be watching fat-cat congresspersons yakking about this for 18 months and they have not the slightest clue what happens in NASA.

We have people up there that need to be taken care of. Let's move on in a shortest time as possible. Yes find the reason, but move on and not let the Congress slow a process that we cannot afford to slow down.

That being said, Russia said they are sending up a re-supply mission to the Space Station tomorrow.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:36 pm

Originally posted by Dakota
Ahh but the Challenger was a technical faux pas and should never had been launched to begin with. Their 1-in-75 number is still good. If and only if you can even call that good.

My long-term fear is we'll be watching fat-cat congresspersons yakking about this for 18 months and they have not the slightest clue what happens in NASA.

We have people up there that need to be taken care of. Let's move on in a shortest time as possible. Yes find the reason, but move on and not let the Congress slow a process that we cannot afford to slow down.

That being said, Russia said they are sending up a re-supply mission to the Space Station tomorrow.

Yep true, I already turned off the TV, I dont want to keep seeing the same thing over and over again, and the media just loves this...they are having a field day.