Line Quality

dmsmed · Post by **dmsmed** » Fri Oct 19, 2001 10:02 pm

I hear people go on and on about speed yet I haven't heard anyone even mention line quality. Why is that? Distance and quality are practically only the delimiting factors for through put?

dmsmed · Post by **dmsmed** » Fri Oct 19, 2001 10:13 pm

I measured the noise on my line and found a total of almost 30Db of noise. I found that any phone which had power going to it (usually in the form of a 120V to 9V adapter) added about 5Db. I had two for a total of 10Db. Phones without an external power source added no noise what so ever. I removed the frayed 85 year old untwisted and patched together segment of the phone line and was able to remove the last 5 DB from my IW (inside wire). I now have about 15 Db and am able to hook up at 1300kbps @ 12,000 feet. I have also tested lighting protectors at customers houses and have found they add about 10Db. Let me know if you have any questions. :-)

Pepin · Post by **Pepin** » Sat Oct 20, 2001 3:51 am

Standard RG6 looses about 3-5db per 100ft. The coax that the cable company sets thier taps into, looses about 2 db per 1000ft, ideally, you should have a line amplifier at everyother tap on the cable companies coax.

I have also found that the signal amps from radio shack ($29.00) usually, amplify the signal too much to use on a cable modem, that is unless you have like 7-10 outlets, in which you would amplify the feed, not the split.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Sat Oct 20, 2001 10:20 am

Originally posted by Pepin
I have also found that the signal amps from radio shack ($29.00) usually, amplify the signal too much to use on a cable modem, that is unless you have like 7-10 outlets, in which you would amplify the feed, not the split.

To be honest, most Radio Shack amps are crap. They are only rated for the downstream signal, and in a lot of cases, maybe only up to 500 MHz. Everytime I run into a Radio Shack amp, I bypass it for the modem because invariably it causes problems with the online connection...

dmsmed · Post by **dmsmed** » Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:37 pm

It's just that time and time again I see houses which have the original drop (the line which runs from the house to the terminal), the wire is classified as cat 1 which is unshielded and has no twist to block EMI or RF. As often as not this drop wire is the same age as the house, even if the house is 50 or 60 years old. Many times it has been spliced (patched) in more than one place and the connections in the terminal on the pole have been exposed to the weather. The cable which runs through a given neighborhood is the same age as the neighborhood.

Kip Patterson · Post by **Kip Patterson** » Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:50 pm

Sqirrels are our friends. They eat Lead-covered cable, including the lead.

When I moved in, I could not get a decent phone line for love nor money because there was half a mile of old lead-covered and Vinyl (they eat that, too) between me and the underground.

I fought for months, then hit upon the following plan. I called the business office and tried to place an order for 12 additional residential lines. They wanted to know why. I explained that I was Mormon and planning on marrying 12 more women. I insisted that they take the order, threatening to file a PUCO complaint if they didn't. I got passed to a supervisor. I explained that I had been over a year with a bad phone line, and that the only way they could install my 12 phone lines was by running new cable. They decided it was easier to prioritize the replacement of the cable to my house. Every inch is now new, all the way to the underground.

In case anyone is really interested, at the point where my cable does go underground they are doing a Project Pronto thing, installing a pad mounted DLC and a mini DSLAM. To do this they have to enlarge an existinig cable vault. Imagine using a jackhammer to remove all the concrete from a cable vault, leaving a dozen working cables in place.

Kip

dmsmed · Post by **dmsmed** » Sat Oct 20, 2001 8:33 pm

LOL, that's a good idea insisting that they take your order. Not have enough good pairs let alone spare pairs is a battle I fight day in and day out. You would be shocked to know that many if not most of the underground lines in my area were laid in the 1920's. I am told that the fact that the cables are out of the weather they don't age as quickly. The problem with the lead cables is that the wire within them is wrapped in paper and not plastic and therefore soaks up rain water once the lead is breached. The good new is that the replacement wire is cat 3.

wee96 · Post by **wee96** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 10:43 am

"you should have a line amplifier at everyother tap on the cable companies coax. "

Not true. You can go through 6 or even in some cases more taps without the need of an LE. All depends on the plant construction.

"Standard RG6 looses about 3-5db per 100ft. "

Depends on the frequency.

"To be honest, most Radio Shack amps are crap. They are only rated for the downstream signal, and in a lot of cases, maybe only up to 500 MHz. Everytime I run into a Radio Shack amp, I bypass it for the modem because invariably it causes problems with the online connection..."

*claps*

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:47 pm

Originally posted by wee96
"you should have a line amplifier at everyother tap on the cable companies coax. "

Not true. You can go through 6 or even in some cases more taps without the need of an LE. All depends on the plant construction.

Yeah, our construction here (they completely rebuilt the plant in Indy a few years ago) goes no deeper than 5 amps from the node, and usually goes no deeper than 7 taps between amps (Value taps: 23, 20, 17, 14, 11, 8, & 4)...the only time that I've seen LE's with less than about 4 is when there is an extreme distance between taps, such as the case out in the outlying areas of the city where there aren't a lot of residential homes...

wee96 · Post by **wee96** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 7:07 pm

Exactly, hey Indy does our system down there use 26 value taps? We still technically use them here, though they cause us a hell of alot of headaches off the BTD's and LE's n such. Only give you 4db to kill before your return is shot....ughh.

Originally posted by Indy

Yeah, our construction here (they completely rebuilt the plant in Indy a few years ago) goes no deeper than 5 amps from the node, and usually goes no deeper than 7 taps between amps (Value taps: 23, 20, 17, 14, 11, 8, & 4)...the only time that I've seen LE's with less than about 4 is when there is an extreme distance between taps, such as the case out in the outlying areas of the city where there aren't a lot of residential homes...

Pepin · Post by **Pepin** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 11:00 pm

Originally posted by Indy

Yeah, our construction here (they completely rebuilt the plant in Indy a few years ago) goes no deeper than 5 amps from the node, and usually goes no deeper than 7 taps between amps (Value taps: 23, 20, 17, 14, 11, 8, & 4)...the only time that I've seen LE's with less than about 4 is when there is an extreme distance between taps, such as the case out in the outlying areas of the city where there aren't a lot of residential homes...

I stand corrected.. I should have spoken about the construction that I work with, It is in a rual area... most of the homes are about 100-200 yards between them

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 11:09 pm

Originally posted by wee96
Exactly, hey Indy does our system down there use 26 value taps? We still technically use them here, though they cause us a hell of alot of headaches off the BTD's and LE's n such. Only give you 4db to kill before your return is shot....ughh.

Every once in awhile I'll find a 26 value tap, but not normally...like you said, it doesn't give a lot of leeway regarding your return...when I do find a 26 value, I usually get with the maintenance folks and let them know so they can take care of it

dmsmed · Post by **dmsmed** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 11:16 pm

Recently we have been instructed to use "tight twist" wire for jumpers at cross connect boxes if the line is to be used for DSL. At a glance the wire looks like CAT3. If you could see what the inside of these boxes look like you would understand why your connection speeds are what they are, some are perfect and the jumpers are all twisted and others are all corroded with wires an inch apart with no twist for several inches at either end.

mercenary · Post by **mercenary** » Sun Oct 28, 2001 1:21 am

kinda reading this and now wondering...
cause my ISP provides cable vision n they use a splitter to split up the signal one to my cable vision box and the other to my cable modem box... should i change the splitter to a tap?

and by changing to higher quality coax cables will it kinda improve my ping? or reduce the amount of "noise" in the system?

dmsmed · Post by **dmsmed** » Sun Oct 28, 2001 11:19 am

Make sure your coax is grounded properly. If it isn't the coax sheilding acts like an antenna and add noise. This cannot be over stated.

Does everyone in this forum think they have perfect media feeding their home? If they could see half of it they would be suprised it worked at all. Forum readers are always looking for more speed via some magic bullet yet media is never discussed, why is that?

mercenary · Post by **mercenary** » Sun Oct 28, 2001 7:52 pm

porperly grounded? how do i ensure that it's grounded?

wee96 · Post by **wee96** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 12:11 am

Grounding can be a tricky issue, let me explain. Proper grounding via us (cable co) is to ground the splitter (most houses, a two way splitter outside the home, on the side of the house) to a proper metal source, to distribute the AC in the copper cable. This only helps if A: youve only got tv's connected to one of the two ports and the modem on the other B: AC is being pumped down your drop (connection from the tap (pole, or pad box in front or back of your house) by our company). IF however you have your modem off a second split, not the one outside which is ground, which is also connected to a TV backfeeding terrible AC, the ground outside will do nothing. You have to have THE split your modem is off, properly grounded to properly fix any AC problem causing your modem to drop synch.

mercenary · Post by **mercenary** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 10:35 am

whoa... that's quite abit to digest... i'm in the case A like u described... so what i gotta do is to ground my splitter? and that might hopefully get rid of my problems?

HalfLifer · Post by **HalfLifer** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 12:56 pm

Originally posted by wee96
Grounding can be a tricky issue, let me explain. Proper grounding via us (cable co) is to ground the splitter (most houses, a two way splitter outside the home, on the side of the house) to a proper metal source, to distribute the AC in the copper cable. This only helps if A: youve only got tv's connected to one of the two ports and the modem on the other B: AC is being pumped down your drop (connection from the tap (pole, or pad box in front or back of your house) by our company). IF however you have your modem off a second split, not the one outside which is ground, which is also connected to a TV backfeeding terrible AC, the ground outside will do nothing. You have to have THE split your modem is off, properly grounded to properly fix any AC problem causing your modem to drop synch.

Whoops

mercenary · Post by **mercenary** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 2:19 pm

whoops? doh!