I found a little more information discussing the pros and cons of medical treatment, and the dietary approach. You may want to take a look at this link...
http://www.nutramed.com/children/hyperactivity.htm
Why our schools are failing...
One thing is im glad there not blaming it on guns.
"Guns dont kill people, I kill People"
-Tall Boss Of Happy Gilmore
Here at South Gwinnett , my High School Prozac is actually a serious drug many people take it for its side affects not cause they "need" it.
Suicide I have always felt that this was a sign saying that they could NOT handle the pressure their life. I.E. too weak in the mind not able to handle under pressure.
Someone who to shoot up a school, is also weak. They are just a big *****, too dumb to take out their anger on somthing else. Too Dumb to be aware of the TRUE concequince of what will happen to the families/friends of the victims. I feel no pitty for anyone that does that, i feel disgust and hate. The people that shoot schools i saw them on the news they are a bunch of scrawny punks who cant enforce that they are saying without a gun. There are other ways to be known and that isnt one of the ways. I would be happy if i saw them cry their little punk ass eyes out while their on the electric chair, but it wont happen cause some ****ed up people in todays society think its the wrong thing to do, he is just a kid. Those people right there are somthing some wacky****, they have officially been brainwashed by the media.
"Guns dont kill people, I kill People"
-Tall Boss Of Happy Gilmore
Here at South Gwinnett , my High School Prozac is actually a serious drug many people take it for its side affects not cause they "need" it.
Suicide I have always felt that this was a sign saying that they could NOT handle the pressure their life. I.E. too weak in the mind not able to handle under pressure.
Someone who to shoot up a school, is also weak. They are just a big *****, too dumb to take out their anger on somthing else. Too Dumb to be aware of the TRUE concequince of what will happen to the families/friends of the victims. I feel no pitty for anyone that does that, i feel disgust and hate. The people that shoot schools i saw them on the news they are a bunch of scrawny punks who cant enforce that they are saying without a gun. There are other ways to be known and that isnt one of the ways. I would be happy if i saw them cry their little punk ass eyes out while their on the electric chair, but it wont happen cause some ****ed up people in todays society think its the wrong thing to do, he is just a kid. Those people right there are somthing some wacky****, they have officially been brainwashed by the media.
We have seen their kind before. They're the heirs of all the murderous ideologies of the 20th century. By sacrificing human life to serve their radical visions, by abandoning every value except the will to power, they follow in the path of fascism, Nazism and totalitarianism. And they will follow that path all the way to where it ends in history's unmarked grave of discarded lies.
That's the exact trouble with the whole psyche industry! They create the names of these so called illnesses and diseases simply by observing the symptoms that are visible in humans and test animals and VOTE them into existence. There is absolutely no real SCIENTIFIC (based on scientific method) evidence that any of these so called illnesses are diseases. By definition, a disease is something that is caused by an actual physical thing such as bacteria, virus or other organism. Gum disease is a disease because bacteria make their home in the gums! Bone disease is a disease because certain living organisms eat away at the bone marrow.Im not sure how many schizophrenics you've been around or how many manic depressives you've been around or OCD suffers but all the healthy eating and "self control" in the world ain't gonna do didly sh!t for these poor people. These are very real very terrible pshyciatric diseases that rob a person of a normal life. I do agree that in many cases teachers and caregivers are quick on the trigger when it come to diagnoseing mental disorders and I also have never bought into that whole ADHD garbage. To denigrate the entire pshyciatric industry is wrong imho. That little piece reminded me of a propaganda film.
Arthriis is NOT a disease but an illness. Same goes for bursitus and carpel-tunnel syndrome. Not diseases.
The psyche industry invents these diseases and gives 'em fancy names that sound like they mean something important. And the uneducated-unable to learn by themselves-lazy-believe anything an authority says public buy into the hype and fraud. They think that "because it is announced by a medical company or a medical group that it must be true". Most of these groups have vested interest behind them funding their research and have control over the data and copyrights. They (their marketing teams) then let the public know only that which leads to the lining of their pockets.
Yes, I agree that there are folks with mental problems. Some are quite bad off. I have seen & worked with them first hand on more than one occasion. The majority of institutionalized people have UNDETECTED physical illnesses. The reason being that you will NOT find competant well trained experienced MD's in psych hospitals! The good doctors do not wish to work in such a place as the pay is poor and the rewards are very low because they do NOT ever cure anybody there! The people gradually get worse. The conditions are horrific and the treatments are inhumane. What sane doctor would condone such a workplace? Yet alone decide to make it his goal to work there.
Try and tell someone that has been through 4 yrs of college and 8 yrs of psyche training that he is incorrect in hiis approach to the human mental condition! (most of them are pretty cukoo themselves and enter the profession for their own selfish reasons)
The whole psyche industry is funded by the govt & pharmeceutical companies. The fed govt allocates over 400 Billion US dollars/year to them! That's yours and my tax dollars being wasted. But worry not! The FBI has been closing down fraudulant institutions and med groups rapidfire. Each year, about 30 more psyches get arrested and jailed for medical fraud, billing fraud,& inhumane practices. They are a dying industry!
Originally posted by TonyT
That's the exact trouble with the whole psyche industry! They create the names of these so called illnesses and diseases simply by observing the symptoms that are visible in humans and test animals and VOTE them into existence. There is absolutely no real SCIENTIFIC (based on scientific method) evidence that any of these so called illnesses are diseases. By definition, a disease is something that is caused by an actual physical thing such as bacteria, virus or other organism. Gum disease is a disease because bacteria make their home in the gums! Bone disease is a disease because certain living organisms eat away at the bone marrow.
Arthriis is NOT a disease but an illness. Same goes for bursitus and carpel-tunnel syndrome. Not diseases.
The psyche industry invents these diseases and gives 'em fancy names that sound like they mean something important. And the uneducated-unable to learn by themselves-lazy-believe anything an authority says public buy into the hype and fraud. They think that "because it is announced by a medical company or a medical group that it must be true". Most of these groups have vested interest behind them funding their research and have control over the data and copyrights. They (their marketing teams) then let the public know only that which leads to the lining of their pockets.
Yes, I agree that there are folks with mental problems. Some are quite bad off. I have seen & worked with them first hand on more than one occasion. The majority of institutionalized people have UNDETECTED physical illnesses. The reason being that you will NOT find competant well trained experienced MD's in psych hospitals! The good doctors do not wish to work in such a place as the pay is poor and the rewards are very low because they do NOT ever cure anybody there! The people gradually get worse. The conditions are horrific and the treatments are inhumane. What sane doctor would condone such a workplace? Yet alone decide to make it his goal to work there.
Try and tell someone that has been through 4 yrs of college and 8 yrs of psyche training that he is incorrect in hiis approach to the human mental condition! (most of them are pretty cukoo themselves and enter the profession for their own selfish reasons)
The whole psyche industry is funded by the govt & pharmeceutical companies. The fed govt allocates over 400 Billion US dollars/year to them! That's yours and my tax dollars being wasted. But worry not! The FBI has been closing down fraudulant institutions and med groups rapidfire. Each year, about 30 more psyches get arrested and jailed for medical fraud, billing fraud,& inhumane practices. They are a dying industry!
Ahemmm...
There is a difference between a psychologist - one who treats without medical intervention, and a psychiatrist - a medical doctor with specific training in the medical treatment of similar conditions...
Psychology is considered a "soft science" - without large amounts of empirical research, but with vast quantities of case studies. Psychiatry in contrast is a "hard science" - controlled, empirical, medically-based studies are performed in this area.
A behavioral approach to modifiying problem behavior should almost always be the first step taken. This requires time and effort on the part of the involved individual (or family). Not the quick fix we so love.
It is unfortunate that labeling the group of professionals (or industry, if your prefer) can occur based upon the behavior a sub-group of those individuals. This could be seen as the development of stereotypes, and is something that I think we all try to consiously avoid.
In the treatment of psychological problems, as in any other part of our busy lives, we must be diligent in pursuing the safest, and best approach for each individual situation.
"People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Kierkegaard
-Kierkegaard
Ahem......
Psychiatry is NOT a science in that it does NOT adhere to any scientific method. Nor is psychology a true science either.
These subjects are misnamed as sciences by authorities and textbook publishers and universities. The trouble with both of these subjects is that the "scientific" methods used during investigations of phenomena is that the only insanity is observed and classified. They have failed to classify sanity as to do so requires sanity in the observer! Instead, what occurs is that a theory is proposed and the research revolves and evolves along that theoretic line of thought, whether rational or irrational.
A true science does NOT discount any other possible solutions to problems or observable phenomena. Mathematics is a science. There is also a science of Politics andf Physics. In physics, you drop an apple and it falls, obeying the law of gravity. In psychology & psychiatry, there are NO fundamental truths which these subjects rest upon. There is only disagreement between textbook authors and practitioners.
Show me any two psych texts that have a standard definition of the subject! Most psyche texts fail to even define their own subject at all, as the bulk of most texts contain only an author's opinion and unproven theories.
Psychiatry is NOT a science in that it does NOT adhere to any scientific method. Nor is psychology a true science either.
These subjects are misnamed as sciences by authorities and textbook publishers and universities. The trouble with both of these subjects is that the "scientific" methods used during investigations of phenomena is that the only insanity is observed and classified. They have failed to classify sanity as to do so requires sanity in the observer! Instead, what occurs is that a theory is proposed and the research revolves and evolves along that theoretic line of thought, whether rational or irrational.
A true science does NOT discount any other possible solutions to problems or observable phenomena. Mathematics is a science. There is also a science of Politics andf Physics. In physics, you drop an apple and it falls, obeying the law of gravity. In psychology & psychiatry, there are NO fundamental truths which these subjects rest upon. There is only disagreement between textbook authors and practitioners.
Show me any two psych texts that have a standard definition of the subject! Most psyche texts fail to even define their own subject at all, as the bulk of most texts contain only an author's opinion and unproven theories.
TonyT,
It is a science in its infancy.
It is much like weather prediction, it is nearly impossible to take in account all variables to give a fool-proof, guaranteed result (Do you think meteorology is not a science).
The misuse of the concepts of the science is not unlike accounting (another imprecise science.... <snicker>) The data, like any good statistition will tell you, can be massaged to have it read what you wish.
david.
It is a science in its infancy.
It is much like weather prediction, it is nearly impossible to take in account all variables to give a fool-proof, guaranteed result (Do you think meteorology is not a science).
The misuse of the concepts of the science is not unlike accounting (another imprecise science.... <snicker>) The data, like any good statistition will tell you, can be massaged to have it read what you wish.
david.
all is a lie
-
RoundEye
- Posts: 18219
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 12:00 am
- Location: In a dry but moldy New Orleans, Louisiana
Glad to see you back posting here.Originally posted by Psalmist
TonyT,
It is a science in its infancy.
It is much like weather prediction, it is nearly impossible to take in account all variables to give a fool-proof, guaranteed result (Do you think meteorology is not a science).
The misuse of the concepts of the science is not unlike accounting (another imprecise science.... <snicker>) The data, like any good statistition will tell you, can be massaged to have it read what you wish.
david.
Sliding down the banister of life ..........................
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Chris
- Posts: 13515
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: Northern AB, CA, turn left Alaska, Turn right, Yukon Territoies
heres some information that may be of interest
And after reading this article another thought arises. All these children that are being diagnosed with attention Deficit Disorder, will they as they become adults be refused health insurance coverage???
I am starting to think there may be more behind this then just the Schools, Pharma and the Psyc industry. What if the Health insurance companies are also putting money into broadening the diagnostic base. In the future this would give them bases to deney coverage to members of health plans and possibly their families. The insurance companies are constantly finding new grounds for denial of medicalcoverage and denial of other forms of insurance based on things such as smoking, drinking, past medical history andso on. If these so called mental disorders are found to be an effective loophole for the insurance industry then any child diagnosed may fall victim later in life.
And after reading this article another thought arises. All these children that are being diagnosed with attention Deficit Disorder, will they as they become adults be refused health insurance coverage???
I am starting to think there may be more behind this then just the Schools, Pharma and the Psyc industry. What if the Health insurance companies are also putting money into broadening the diagnostic base. In the future this would give them bases to deney coverage to members of health plans and possibly their families. The insurance companies are constantly finding new grounds for denial of medicalcoverage and denial of other forms of insurance based on things such as smoking, drinking, past medical history andso on. If these so called mental disorders are found to be an effective loophole for the insurance industry then any child diagnosed may fall victim later in life.
These should both work, each is a ~20 meg download.Originally posted by RoundEye
I know somebody that has to see that. How do I save it to disk?
http://www.adhdvideo.org/SchoolPsychiatry250.asf
http://www.adhdvideo.org/SchoolPsychiatry250.rm
Thanks for the reference! I always get concerned when insurance companies take that much interest in a subject...Originally posted by Martiangod
heres some information that may be of interest
And after reading this article another thought arises. All these children that are being diagnosed with attention Deficit Disorder, will they as they become adults be refused health insurance coverage???
I am starting to think there may be more behind this then just the Schools, Pharma and the Psyc industry. What if the Health insurance companies are also putting money into broadening the diagnostic base. In the future this would give them bases to deney coverage to members of health plans and possibly their families. The insurance companies are constantly finding new grounds for denial of medicalcoverage and denial of other forms of insurance based on things such as smoking, drinking, past medical history andso on. If these so called mental disorders are found to be an effective loophole for the insurance industry then any child diagnosed may fall victim later in life.
"People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Kierkegaard
-Kierkegaard
-
Chris
- Posts: 13515
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: Northern AB, CA, turn left Alaska, Turn right, Yukon Territoies
Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)
Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is generally first diagnosed during the primary school years. Symptoms are always present before the age of seven, but sometimes continue into adolescence. ADHD is seen more commonly in boys. Symptoms often become less severe in late teenage and in early adulthood, although it seems that people do not 'outgrow' ADHD, but learn to master strategies to compensate for the symptoms.
ADHD is under-recognised, with less than a half of the affected individuals receiving appropriate diagnoses, and of those who are diagnosed, few receive appropriate treatment.
Children with ADHD tend to exhibit hyperactive and impulsive behaviour, and have problems paying attention and concentrating. Despite good intentions, they may be unable to listen well, organise work, and follow directions, and co-operating in sports and games may be difficult. Acting before thinking can cause problems with parents, teachers, and friends. Such children are often restless, fidgety, and unable to sit still. These problems can be very upsetting to the young person, their family, school friends and teachers.
ADHD is not a learning disability. Although it affects the performance of the child in school, it will also have a negative impact on a number of other aspects of life.
Signs of hyperactive behaviour include:
almost constant fidgeting and restlessness
inability to sit in the same seat for very long
running or climbing at an inappropriate time or place
talking too much
always playing too loudly
always active
blurting out answers to questions in the classroom
pushing into queues, unable to wait for a turn in activities
interrupting others
Many children with ADHD have problems with hyperactive, impulsive behaviour before the age of 6. Some mothers even comment that their baby was hyperactive in the womb, and parents often remember their children as having been fussy and difficult to quieten as babies.
Children with ADHD cannot control at least some of their behaviour. They may seem to be 'in another world' and do not respond when told to stop, whereas children who misbehave on purpose will often look to see how adults react to their behaviour. Because parents can often sense that their child can't (rather than won't) sit still or be quiet, they often feel more frustrated than angry. Most parents have tried many different ways of coping with the problem behaviours without much success.
Signs of attention problems include:
difficulty following instructions
not seeming to listen to parents or teachers
not being able to focus on activities
frequently losing things needed for school or at home
not being able to pay attention to details
appearing disorganised
being unable to plan ahead effectively
being forgetful
appearing very distractible
Children with ADHD often lose interest in an activity in 5 minutes or less, and continually move from one activity to another. If the child ADHD shows behaviour problems only at home and not in other places, such as at school, then ADHD is less likely to be the problem. ADHD symptoms often become worse where there is more activity and noise, but children show some of the signs of hyperactivity in several different settings (in the classroom or the playground; at home watching television). Children with ADHD are often able to keep their attention focused on cartoons and video games, but at the same time they may be fidgeting with their arms and legs.
Most children with ADHD have both hyperactivity and attention problems, but some may have only signs of inattention. This type of problem used to be called attention-deficit disorder (ADD), but is now thought to be a form of ADHD.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I like is this para most
Children with ADHD tend to exhibit hyperactive and impulsive behaviour, and have problems paying attention and concentrating. Despite good intentions, they may be unable to listen well, organise work, and follow directions, and co-operating in sports and games may be difficult. Acting before thinking can cause problems with parents, teachers, and friends. Such children are often restless, fidgety, and unable to sit still. These problems can be very upsetting to the young person, their family, school friends and teachers.
Most of the symptoms listed also affect my one son, and for these reasons they tried to label him ADHD.
Sports and games comment
: He has congenital heart disease and can not keep up with the other kids
Such children are often restless, fidgety, and unable to sit still
: is on prescribed diaretics for his heart condition and has to go to washroom numerouse times in a day, also his blood flow is not great therefore he gets fidgety and restless.
I could go on about his case but i think you know where I'm heading
I had to fight like hell to have him not labeled , to the point that the school board reported me to childrens aids which at the time as a single parent I was put in jeopardy of loosing my kids.
All because THEY do not want to see or hear the truth, only that THEY are right in their diagnosis andeveryone else is wrong.
Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is generally first diagnosed during the primary school years. Symptoms are always present before the age of seven, but sometimes continue into adolescence. ADHD is seen more commonly in boys. Symptoms often become less severe in late teenage and in early adulthood, although it seems that people do not 'outgrow' ADHD, but learn to master strategies to compensate for the symptoms.
ADHD is under-recognised, with less than a half of the affected individuals receiving appropriate diagnoses, and of those who are diagnosed, few receive appropriate treatment.
Children with ADHD tend to exhibit hyperactive and impulsive behaviour, and have problems paying attention and concentrating. Despite good intentions, they may be unable to listen well, organise work, and follow directions, and co-operating in sports and games may be difficult. Acting before thinking can cause problems with parents, teachers, and friends. Such children are often restless, fidgety, and unable to sit still. These problems can be very upsetting to the young person, their family, school friends and teachers.
ADHD is not a learning disability. Although it affects the performance of the child in school, it will also have a negative impact on a number of other aspects of life.
Signs of hyperactive behaviour include:
almost constant fidgeting and restlessness
inability to sit in the same seat for very long
running or climbing at an inappropriate time or place
talking too much
always playing too loudly
always active
blurting out answers to questions in the classroom
pushing into queues, unable to wait for a turn in activities
interrupting others
Many children with ADHD have problems with hyperactive, impulsive behaviour before the age of 6. Some mothers even comment that their baby was hyperactive in the womb, and parents often remember their children as having been fussy and difficult to quieten as babies.
Children with ADHD cannot control at least some of their behaviour. They may seem to be 'in another world' and do not respond when told to stop, whereas children who misbehave on purpose will often look to see how adults react to their behaviour. Because parents can often sense that their child can't (rather than won't) sit still or be quiet, they often feel more frustrated than angry. Most parents have tried many different ways of coping with the problem behaviours without much success.
Signs of attention problems include:
difficulty following instructions
not seeming to listen to parents or teachers
not being able to focus on activities
frequently losing things needed for school or at home
not being able to pay attention to details
appearing disorganised
being unable to plan ahead effectively
being forgetful
appearing very distractible
Children with ADHD often lose interest in an activity in 5 minutes or less, and continually move from one activity to another. If the child ADHD shows behaviour problems only at home and not in other places, such as at school, then ADHD is less likely to be the problem. ADHD symptoms often become worse where there is more activity and noise, but children show some of the signs of hyperactivity in several different settings (in the classroom or the playground; at home watching television). Children with ADHD are often able to keep their attention focused on cartoons and video games, but at the same time they may be fidgeting with their arms and legs.
Most children with ADHD have both hyperactivity and attention problems, but some may have only signs of inattention. This type of problem used to be called attention-deficit disorder (ADD), but is now thought to be a form of ADHD.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I like is this para most
Children with ADHD tend to exhibit hyperactive and impulsive behaviour, and have problems paying attention and concentrating. Despite good intentions, they may be unable to listen well, organise work, and follow directions, and co-operating in sports and games may be difficult. Acting before thinking can cause problems with parents, teachers, and friends. Such children are often restless, fidgety, and unable to sit still. These problems can be very upsetting to the young person, their family, school friends and teachers.
Most of the symptoms listed also affect my one son, and for these reasons they tried to label him ADHD.
Sports and games comment
: He has congenital heart disease and can not keep up with the other kids
Such children are often restless, fidgety, and unable to sit still
: is on prescribed diaretics for his heart condition and has to go to washroom numerouse times in a day, also his blood flow is not great therefore he gets fidgety and restless.
I could go on about his case but i think you know where I'm heading
I had to fight like hell to have him not labeled , to the point that the school board reported me to childrens aids which at the time as a single parent I was put in jeopardy of loosing my kids.
All because THEY do not want to see or hear the truth, only that THEY are right in their diagnosis andeveryone else is wrong.
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Chris
- Posts: 13515
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: Northern AB, CA, turn left Alaska, Turn right, Yukon Territoies
here a nice little blurb from a text on medications for adhd
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Nine out of 10 children improve on one of the stimulant drugs, so if one doesn't help, the others should be tried. Usually a medication should be tried for a week to see if it helps. If necessary, the doctor will also try adjusting the dosage before switching to a different drug. The length of time a person takes the medicine differs between individuals. Some will need only 1 to 2 years of treatment, but others may need longer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This was not in the context of diagnosed ADHD, this was a general statement about all children from an Psyc article
from the same article
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Critics also argue that many children who do not have a true attention disorder are medicated as a way to control their disruptive behaviours.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nine out of 10 children improve on one of the stimulant drugs, so if one doesn't help, the others should be tried. Usually a medication should be tried for a week to see if it helps. If necessary, the doctor will also try adjusting the dosage before switching to a different drug. The length of time a person takes the medicine differs between individuals. Some will need only 1 to 2 years of treatment, but others may need longer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This was not in the context of diagnosed ADHD, this was a general statement about all children from an Psyc article
from the same article
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Critics also argue that many children who do not have a true attention disorder are medicated as a way to control their disruptive behaviours.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Martiangod
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What I like is this para most
Children with ADHD tend to exhibit hyperactive and impulsive behaviour, and have problems paying attention and concentrating. Despite good intentions, they may be unable to listen well, organise work, and follow directions, and co-operating in sports and games may be difficult. Acting before thinking can cause problems with parents, teachers, and friends. Such children are often restless, fidgety, and unable to sit still. These problems can be very upsetting to the young person, their family, school friends and teachers.
Most of the symptoms listed also affect my one son, and for these reasons they tried to label him ADHD.
Sports and games comment
: He has congenital heart disease and can not keep up with the other kids
Such children are often restless, fidgety, and unable to sit still
: is on prescribed diaretics for his heart condition and has to go to washroom numerouse times in a day, also his blood flow is not great therefore he gets fidgety and restless.
I could go on about his case but i think you know where I'm heading
I had to fight like hell to have him not labeled , to the point that the school board reported me to childrens aids which at the time as a single parent I was put in jeopardy of loosing my kids.
All because THEY do not want to see or here the truth, only that THEY are right in their diagnosis andeveryone else is wrong.
You know, this kind of labeling has been taking place since the '70s. Sometimes it seems that if more time was spent addressing the problem, rather than naming it a lot more people would benefit.
Its frustrating to hear that in the end, you are your child's only real advocate...
"People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Kierkegaard
-Kierkegaard
-
Chris
- Posts: 13515
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: Northern AB, CA, turn left Alaska, Turn right, Yukon Territoies
Does anyone remember when little johnny was acting up and having trouble in class the teacher walking over putting here arm on on little Johnny's shoulder and talking to him, then spending a few extra minutes a day with little Johnny.
With that approach little Johnny usually settled down and started to fit in.
Today it is get the kid on drugs and arrest that teacher for sexual abuse, she touched my little Johnny.
With that approach little Johnny usually settled down and started to fit in.
Today it is get the kid on drugs and arrest that teacher for sexual abuse, she touched my little Johnny.
Well informed you be, Chris. Very well presented.
Sad that you have to be so, one would hope that those who hold power would have said information and perhaps a bit more foresight.
Andrea,
Unfortunately, most folks are comfortable with labels and prejudices....
As your Soren quote indicates.....
shant,
david
Sad that you have to be so, one would hope that those who hold power would have said information and perhaps a bit more foresight.
Andrea,
Unfortunately, most folks are comfortable with labels and prejudices....
As your Soren quote indicates.....
shant,
david
all is a lie
Agreed. Labels can have the effect of lulling one into a place that resembles comfortable familiarity... Prejudices are usually not far behind.Originally posted by Psalmist
Well informed you be, Chris. Very well presented.
Sad that you have to be so, one would hope that those who hold power would have said information and perhaps a bit more foresight.
Andrea,
Unfortunately, most folks are comfortable with labels and prejudices....
As your Soren quote indicates.....
shant,
david
"People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Kierkegaard
-Kierkegaard
-
Chris
- Posts: 13515
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: Northern AB, CA, turn left Alaska, Turn right, Yukon Territoies
I posted the link for this article but i think this paragraph is a must read
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Mr. Fred Ehrlich wasn’t warned that according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-III-R), published in 1987, “...suicide is the major complication” of withdrawal from Ritalin and similar drugs. Ehrlich’s son, Daniel, was a normal 10-year-old boy who liked to “monkey around and climb trees.” But Daniel didn’t take school seriously, and teachers suggested he be taken to a psychiatrist. He was psychologically tested and subsequently placed on Ritalin and the major tranquilizer, Mellaril. When the parents’ health insurance ran out, the only “help” they could get from the psychiatrist was a repeat prescription. Four years later, Ehrlich read that behavioral problems could be caused by sugar and diet and saw the chance for Daniel to live drug-free and be returned to a normal life. He eliminated sugar from Daniel’s diet and within two weeks saw a remarkable change. He stopped getting the drug prescriptions and withdrew Daniel suddenly from the drugs. Two months later, Daniel, 14, hanged himself.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Fred Ehrlich wasn’t warned that according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-III-R), published in 1987, “...suicide is the major complication” of withdrawal from Ritalin and similar drugs. Ehrlich’s son, Daniel, was a normal 10-year-old boy who liked to “monkey around and climb trees.” But Daniel didn’t take school seriously, and teachers suggested he be taken to a psychiatrist. He was psychologically tested and subsequently placed on Ritalin and the major tranquilizer, Mellaril. When the parents’ health insurance ran out, the only “help” they could get from the psychiatrist was a repeat prescription. Four years later, Ehrlich read that behavioral problems could be caused by sugar and diet and saw the chance for Daniel to live drug-free and be returned to a normal life. He eliminated sugar from Daniel’s diet and within two weeks saw a remarkable change. He stopped getting the drug prescriptions and withdrew Daniel suddenly from the drugs. Two months later, Daniel, 14, hanged himself.
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Chris
- Posts: 13515
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: Northern AB, CA, turn left Alaska, Turn right, Yukon Territoies
"In their anxiety to keep their failures explained while they ask congresses, parliaments and legislatures for more millions to put in their pockets, psychiatry continually redefines key words relating to the mind'"
“The main point of all these tangled terms today is that anyone can be said to have some form of insanity just by saying a big word. As no one has agreed what the word means or what the symptoms are, this leaves the psychiatrist as an ‘authority.’”
L Ron Hubard
“The main point of all these tangled terms today is that anyone can be said to have some form of insanity just by saying a big word. As no one has agreed what the word means or what the symptoms are, this leaves the psychiatrist as an ‘authority.’”
L Ron Hubard
Re the insurance companies and other organisations -
An interesting fact is that ANY child who has ever been prescribed Ritilan or any other psyche drug is automatically inelligable for service in any of the US armed forces. Most people do not realize that! But the military does realize that these drugs have serious side efects later in life and they do not trust the mental stability of anyone that has taked any of these drugs. I don't blame them either. This military policy is non-negotiable, court recognized policy.
While I am neither a Hawk nor a Dove, I do believe the military is necessary at this point in our history and I agree with their policy on this.
Most all of the major health bills introduced into Congress in the last 10 years have included mental health proposals burried deep in them such as empowering police to recognize & detain suspected "mentally ill persons", empowering them to commit people without consent for "mental observation" etc etc. Many insurance companies do not recognize these so called illnesses and deny coverrage now, or they limit coverage to 30 days or 60 days. This is why there is so much fraud in the mental health industry. People are kept institutionalized for the max time that the facility can collect. Then the insurance companies are billed for services that never get delivered or for quack treatments that do nothing more than worsen the patients.
This is why you cannot view the treatments in psyche hospitals. You can watch an appendectomy in a hospital, or even heart surgery on TV, but the psyche wards never permit filming of treatments or outside observers to look on and see what really results from their barbaric methods. The docs there know that they wopuld be ridiculed and possibly arrested for what they do to these poor people. I have seen their treatments on people and the results. I even know a male nurse at a psyche hospital that got trained in TaiQuonDo at the hospital's expense to better his patient handling! Why would a nurse need that training? Because the nurse considers that the patients need man handling and more pain administered to them. he docs and nurses treat thes folks as animals. Why? Because their "science" defines man as an animal and denies the existance of the soul or spirit or "life force". It considers us to be electrical energy animating cells.
An interesting fact is that ANY child who has ever been prescribed Ritilan or any other psyche drug is automatically inelligable for service in any of the US armed forces. Most people do not realize that! But the military does realize that these drugs have serious side efects later in life and they do not trust the mental stability of anyone that has taked any of these drugs. I don't blame them either. This military policy is non-negotiable, court recognized policy.
While I am neither a Hawk nor a Dove, I do believe the military is necessary at this point in our history and I agree with their policy on this.
Most all of the major health bills introduced into Congress in the last 10 years have included mental health proposals burried deep in them such as empowering police to recognize & detain suspected "mentally ill persons", empowering them to commit people without consent for "mental observation" etc etc. Many insurance companies do not recognize these so called illnesses and deny coverrage now, or they limit coverage to 30 days or 60 days. This is why there is so much fraud in the mental health industry. People are kept institutionalized for the max time that the facility can collect. Then the insurance companies are billed for services that never get delivered or for quack treatments that do nothing more than worsen the patients.
This is why you cannot view the treatments in psyche hospitals. You can watch an appendectomy in a hospital, or even heart surgery on TV, but the psyche wards never permit filming of treatments or outside observers to look on and see what really results from their barbaric methods. The docs there know that they wopuld be ridiculed and possibly arrested for what they do to these poor people. I have seen their treatments on people and the results. I even know a male nurse at a psyche hospital that got trained in TaiQuonDo at the hospital's expense to better his patient handling! Why would a nurse need that training? Because the nurse considers that the patients need man handling and more pain administered to them. he docs and nurses treat thes folks as animals. Why? Because their "science" defines man as an animal and denies the existance of the soul or spirit or "life force". It considers us to be electrical energy animating cells.
TonyT,
Have you dealt with the non-compliant insane?
I have been inside an institution in Philadelphia to help with dental care. Trust me, it is a warehouse for the junked minds of humanity. It is not pretty.
david
Have you dealt with the non-compliant insane?
I have been inside an institution in Philadelphia to help with dental care. Trust me, it is a warehouse for the junked minds of humanity. It is not pretty.
david
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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RoundEye
- Posts: 18219
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 12:00 am
- Location: In a dry but moldy New Orleans, Louisiana
Thanks a lot, I couldn't figure out how to download them.Originally posted by BIGJIMSLATE
These should both work, each is a ~20 meg download.
http://www.adhdvideo.org/SchoolPsychiatry250.asf
http://www.adhdvideo.org/SchoolPsychiatry250.rm
I'm following this thread closely, taking in all the info from both sides. We really need to help this kid, he's failing all of his courses, and they want to pass him anyway. Louisiana schools are not the best and we are getting a lot of negative attention in the news. They are trying to improve the test scores, but that's gonna take a while to do.
I'm going to try and scan the test and put them up here when I get a chance. They (the teachers) contradict themselves big time, at one point "he is restless" and then on another page they say "he sleeps in class". My in-laws just don't want him labeled, but the only way to get help is if he has a "problem". The school board will not give him any special help unless he is under meds or has been diagnosed with some type of disorder. The private schools won't let him in because his scores are low. After school tutoring may be the best alternative at this point, I would think. Maybe even take him out of school all together, and hire a private tutor untill he can be brought back up to a level where he can enter school and not be so far behind. Maybe this would give him some of the freedom he needs to run around a bit when he needs to, and the one-on-one instruction he needs so badly.
I mean what's the point of being in school if they are just going to promote him anyway, if he fails? I didn't realize how screwed up our school system is until all this came about.
Sliding down the banister of life ..........................
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ColdFusion
- Posts: 3542
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2000 12:00 am
- Location: Vancouver, BC
David,
Yes, I have seen it firsthand, not as a patient though!
Yes, there are junked minds there, some reall wacko's, but these people are not the true insane, They at one time in their life were associated with the truely insane and as a result went bonkers from the pressures and suppression placed upon them by real psychos. The real psycho is not in an institution, but rather is moving along in life undetected and unnoticed by most of man.
There are some real psychos in institutions for the criminally insane. The majority of patients in institutions have undected real medical problems such as rare diseases or common diseases misdiagnosed by the docs there. As a result, they are given psychotropic drugs, schock treatments, pain-drug-hypnosis therapy, deprivation therapies, inhumane treatments and other treatments. These treatments make them worse off and eventually they do go insane. That is the sad part.
Unfortunately, as you know, these types of hospitals are struggling economically. So they fraudulantly bill insurance companies, dole out meds by the thousands and do other financial oddities, all to collect a percentage of health care money.
Each pill prescribed is worth about 1000% it's over the counter monetary value. Each time a doc walks into a patients room, the ins co gets billed. The doc sees something new and decides that th epatient has that "disorder" or "illness" and it gets added to the chart which in turn gives way for more treatment and billing for it.
You have seen these places. The care is gone. The love for fellow man is gone. They are meat markets not unlike cattle warehouses, except the death is slow and the profit is not in the slaughter but in the prolonged agony of the patients.
True, psychiatry & psychology are "sciences in their infancy", but the management and care of the insane is an old practice, once controlled by the church who employed patient and understanding people that cared for the sick. I am not saying that the church should have this duty, they do not want it anyway, but at least when they did manage the institutions patients there were better off.
For the most part, modern institutions have one policy and that is "keep the patients subdued so they do not cause trouble". And when they do cause trouble they get tortured with shocks, heavier drugs and physical pain.
I get pissed off because even in it's infancy, these researchers and docs have failed to observe the true causes of insanity and they have closed their minds to possibilities other than what they are told by authority to look for. They are looking at genes, brain cells and other body parts. The cause does not lie there. The mind is not the brain nor is it a part of the body.
Yes, I have seen it firsthand, not as a patient though!
Yes, there are junked minds there, some reall wacko's, but these people are not the true insane, They at one time in their life were associated with the truely insane and as a result went bonkers from the pressures and suppression placed upon them by real psychos. The real psycho is not in an institution, but rather is moving along in life undetected and unnoticed by most of man.
There are some real psychos in institutions for the criminally insane. The majority of patients in institutions have undected real medical problems such as rare diseases or common diseases misdiagnosed by the docs there. As a result, they are given psychotropic drugs, schock treatments, pain-drug-hypnosis therapy, deprivation therapies, inhumane treatments and other treatments. These treatments make them worse off and eventually they do go insane. That is the sad part.
Unfortunately, as you know, these types of hospitals are struggling economically. So they fraudulantly bill insurance companies, dole out meds by the thousands and do other financial oddities, all to collect a percentage of health care money.
Each pill prescribed is worth about 1000% it's over the counter monetary value. Each time a doc walks into a patients room, the ins co gets billed. The doc sees something new and decides that th epatient has that "disorder" or "illness" and it gets added to the chart which in turn gives way for more treatment and billing for it.
You have seen these places. The care is gone. The love for fellow man is gone. They are meat markets not unlike cattle warehouses, except the death is slow and the profit is not in the slaughter but in the prolonged agony of the patients.
True, psychiatry & psychology are "sciences in their infancy", but the management and care of the insane is an old practice, once controlled by the church who employed patient and understanding people that cared for the sick. I am not saying that the church should have this duty, they do not want it anyway, but at least when they did manage the institutions patients there were better off.
For the most part, modern institutions have one policy and that is "keep the patients subdued so they do not cause trouble". And when they do cause trouble they get tortured with shocks, heavier drugs and physical pain.
I get pissed off because even in it's infancy, these researchers and docs have failed to observe the true causes of insanity and they have closed their minds to possibilities other than what they are told by authority to look for. They are looking at genes, brain cells and other body parts. The cause does not lie there. The mind is not the brain nor is it a part of the body.
RoundEye, if there is a college or university in your area with a strong teacher's education program, they may offer an education testing service. An independent evaluation of both his abilities and his behavior would be a good place to start. They would likely run a battery of standardized tests (maybe some of the same ones he has already taken), and observe him "at work" and probably "at play".
With that information in hand, his family would be in a better position to let the school know what their expectations are. And how the shared goals could be achieved...
With that information in hand, his family would be in a better position to let the school know what their expectations are. And how the shared goals could be achieved...
"People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Kierkegaard
-Kierkegaard
The fact of the matter is this: The Liberals have found a way to breakdown the last obstacle to Socialism...by disqualifying the youth of America from Military Service...Clinton always had it out for us in the military...well it looks as if his other programs are finally paying off!Originally posted by TonyT
Re the insurance companies and other organisations -
An interesting fact is that ANY child who has ever been prescribed Ritilan or any other psyche drug is automatically inelligable for service in any of the US armed forces. Most people do not realize that! But the military does realize that these drugs have serious side efects later in life and they do not trust the mental stability of anyone that has taked any of these drugs. I don't blame them either. This military policy is non-negotiable, court recognized policy.
This makes me sick and it makes me wonder if people really know that this is just a piece of the bigger picture...which is the liberal realization of the New World Order.
It's funny how us believers in the NWO have known about this for several years now. I can even put you in touch with my web source that has this crap in the archives section!
http://williamcooper.com/
We've been talking about this for a long time now in the underground communities...please take the time to read this stuff!
The fact of the matter is this: The Liberals have found a way to breakdown the last obstacle to Socialism...by disqualifying the youth of America from Military Service...Clinton always had it out for us in the military...well it looks as if his other programs are finally paying off!
I am no liberal and do not wish to engage in a political discussion in this thread, but that policy of the military has been around long before Clinton's administration. The fact of the matter is that people who have a history of taking psychotropic drugs or illegal street drugs or other prescribed mind altering drugs such as Ritilan, are difficult to train on any subject. They learn slower, they have a lowered rate of duplication and they often get confused ideas about what they are to study due to the effects of those drugs.
Not to mention that these drugs have serious side effects in a great percentage of people that can be triggered long after one has stopped taking the drugs. People who have been on these drugs or who are currently on them do not have good perceptions nor do they have good judgement. Therefore it is wise to not atempt to train them to use guns and weapons as they will most certainly miss the imoportant parts of that training such as gun safety and control.
Even the post office is beginning to catch on to this. Every single one of their employees who "had gone postal" were under the care of a psychiatrist or psychologist PRIOR to them going bonkers and ALL had a history of psyche medication. The govt is now beginning to realize that the treatment is responsible for creating crazy people and not curing mental illness.
Tony, you made reference to the insurance companies...THAT is the Clinton scam, it just so happens to affect the miltary also. Secondly, Ritalin is a subsidized drug given out by TriCare...given away on Military Installations...I should know, I'm in the military and have been for the past 12 years. The statement about the military disqualifying people is somewhat false...they don't. I'm working with some new troops now who took ritalin and other drugs as children. As far as being political...sorry but this IS a LIBERAL agenda no matter how you slice it...btw, I know liberals who are really GOP and GOP'ers who are Jackasses! So the bottom line is yes the drugs are killing our children...and it's by design. I'm just trying to point out that there is a bigger picture here for all to see.
Originally posted by TonyT
David,
Yes, I have seen it firsthand, not as a patient though!
Yes, there are junked minds there, some reall wacko's, but these people are not the true insane, They at one time in their life were associated with the truely insane and as a result went bonkers from the pressures and suppression placed upon them by real psychos. The real psycho is not in an institution, but rather is moving along in life undetected and unnoticed by most of man.
The institution I was associated with had the severely retarded and psychosis to the point of catatonia or blind rages.
There are some real psychos in institutions for the criminally insane. The majority of patients in institutions have undected real medical problems such as rare diseases or common diseases misdiagnosed by the docs there. As a result, they are given psychotropic drugs, schock treatments, pain-drug-hypnosis therapy, deprivation therapies, inhumane treatments and other treatments. These treatments make them worse off and eventually they do go insane. That is the sad part.
You make a good point in terms of misdiagnosis or sloppy work by MD's. It happens WAY too often. The drugs used are similar to yesterday's anticancer drugs. The effects are often shotgun. Still, the needy patient is often better off on meds.
Unfortunately, as you know, these types of hospitals are struggling economically. So they fraudulantly bill insurance companies, dole out meds by the thousands and do other financial oddities, all to collect a percentage of health care money.
Each pill prescribed is worth about 1000% it's over the counter monetary value. Each time a doc walks into a patients room, the ins co gets billed. The doc sees something new and decides that th epatient has that "disorder" or "illness" and it gets added to the chart which in turn gives way for more treatment and billing for it.
Insurance companies have been on the attack for more than a decade against the practices you describe. Here is the funny part: Insurance fraud has your doctor licence pulled; Hack work does not...
You have seen these places. The care is gone. The love for fellow man is gone. They are meat markets not unlike cattle warehouses, except the death is slow and the profit is not in the slaughter but in the prolonged agony of the patients.
You are describing "rest homes" AKA "granny dumps". Asylums lose money.
True, psychiatry & psychology are "sciences in their infancy", but the management and care of the insane is an old practice, once controlled by the church who employed patient and understanding people that cared for the sick. I am not saying that the church should have this duty, they do not want it anyway, but at least when they did manage the institutions patients there were better off.
The church would have viewed the insane as possessed.... and had them stoned or burned.
For the most part, modern institutions have one policy and that is "keep the patients subdued so they do not cause trouble". And when they do cause trouble they get tortured with shocks, heavier drugs and physical pain.
Electro-Shock and Psycho-surgery are considered antiquated modalities. The presently, incurables can only be warehoused until adequate treatment is found. Tony..... I you have an answer, I am sure family of one of them would love to hear it. I pray for your success!!
The medications and treatments are still being parsed. "Ancient therapies" involved shock, torture or poisoning. There is no willow bark or kaolin.I get pissed off because even in it's infancy, these researchers and docs have failed to observe the true causes of insanity and they have closed their minds to possibilities other than what they are told by authority to look for. They are looking at genes, brain cells and other body parts. The cause does not lie there. The mind is not the brain nor is it a part of the body.
The mind is very much part of the brain and body..... Get drunk if you have any doubt...
david
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
UOD....Originally posted by uod2001
Tony, you made reference to the insurance companies...THAT is the Clinton scam, it just so happens to affect the miltary also. Secondly, Ritalin is a subsidized drug given out by TriCare...given away on Military Installations...I should know, I'm in the military and have been for the past 12 years. The statement about the military disqualifying people is somewhat false...they don't. I'm working with some new troops now who took ritalin and other drugs as children. As far as being political...sorry but this IS a LIBERAL agenda no matter how you slice it...btw, I know liberals who are really GOP and GOP'ers who are Jackasses! So the bottom line is yes the drugs are killing our children...and it's by design. I'm just trying to point out that there is a bigger picture here for all to see.
You have been listening to too much 101.5FM.
Insurances have been bilking before Clinton. The military INVENTED LSD. The miserable grease head Reagan turned liberalism into a dirty word. Sorry, but it is not. Look it up in a dictionary. Here is another clue... Selling out your country can be done from any political point of view. Reagan and Bush both did it AS WELL as Clinton. Greed and politics my friend. Beside, this is not a discussion on politics.
david
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
The military INVENTED LSD.
Actualy, the Nazi's and Ely Lilly working together invented LSD in a search for 'population control" drugs.
So the bottom line is yes the drugs are killing our children...and it's by design
agreed
Anyway David, I believe we have run the gammut on this thread and further chat would result in the thread diverging into the next election.
Agreed....Originally posted by TonyT
Actualy, the Nazi's and Ely Lilly working together invented LSD in a search for 'population control" drugs.
agreed
Anyway David, I believe we have run the gammut on this thread and further chat would result in the thread diverging into the next election.
However..... It was discovered in France after a bad rye harvest yielded a town wide ergotimine poisoning...... The US military honed it in the late 40's.... Lilly predates the Military use... you are correct.
shant,
david
and you said you missed me.... <snicker>
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche