How much packet loss is too much?

Epiphany · Post by **Epiphany** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 12:24 pm

I've been testing packet loss at dslreports.com and am having some trouble interpreting the results.

If I have ANY packet loss, even if it's a passing grade like 2%, is it better to lower the RWIN? When I lowered it, my packet loss dropped, does that make sense?

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 12:45 pm

Please click in my signature where it says Test your tweak here, then:
At top where it says edit click and select, Select all,
Then go back to same edit button at top, click and select copy.
Come back to Speedguide, same thread you were on, in post reply box, with cursor blinking at begining of box go to top, edit, click, select paste, click, this will put information in box. Please X out your IP address, Thank you.

Epiphany · Post by **Epiphany** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:08 pm

Tue Jul 17 12:57:57 2001.

SpeedGuide.net TCP/IP Analyzer
Browser/OS = Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98)

TCP options string = 020405ac0103030201010402

MTU = 1492
MTU seems to be optimized for PPPoE... If you are not on a PPPoE connection, consider increasing your MTU to 1500 for optimal throughput.

MSS = 1452
Maximum useful data in each packet = 1452, which is equal to MSS.
MSS is optimized for PPPoE. If you are not on a PPPoE connection, consider increasing your MTU value.

Default Receive Window (RWIN) = 255552
RWIN Scaling (RFC1323) = 2 bits
Unscaled Receive Window = 63888
RWIN is a multiple of MSS
Other values for RWIN that might work well with your current MTU/MSS:
511104 (MSS x 44 * scale factor of 8)
127776 (MSS x 44 * scale factor of 2)
63888 (MSS x 44)

bandwidth * delay product:
Your RcvWindow limits you to: 10222.08 kbps (1277.76 KBytes/s) @ 200ms
Your RcvWindow limits you to: 4088.832 kbps (511.104 KBytes/s) @ 500ms

MTU Discovery (RFC1191) = ON

Time to live left = 50 hops
TTL value is ok.

Timestamps (RFC1323) = OFF

Selective Acknowledgements (RFC2018) = ON

IP type of service field (RFC1349)= 00000000

18761 connections tested since 03.10.2001.
Analyzer version: Beta 0.99

Lobo,
I was experimenting with RWIN of 371712, when I tested packet loss it was like 29% or something, whoa, then I switched back to 255552 which was what the patch originally set it to and packet loss went to 2%. I'm confused because after reading, I think RWIN doesn't CAUSE packet loss, right?

xbit · Post by **xbit** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:10 pm

could be dslreports. Ping your gateway and do some traceroutes to see if its your isp. I have used some very high rwins right lobo

and no packetloss.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:20 pm

Try 63888 as RWIN, the other was to large for your system

Are you talking about packet loss or retransmissions which mean nothing here, stay there and take test after test, different result each time

How do do speed test
1. The best time is early in the morning (3 AM - 6 AM)
2. Make sure defrag has been run so no files are fragmented
3. Delete Temp internet files, not while testing, but after each test. IE browser, click tools, internet options, click on delete files and no this will not harm system, just get rid of temp files
4. Go to a fast server such as http://www.happypuppy.com and click on 10 demos, select a LARGE file to download (not all of it , just most of it, before you click cancel) this will show you how fast you are downloading, it's not going to be quick except except early in morning when not many people on net. I recommend you go to http://www.analogX.com and download Net State live, run this while downloading as it will give you avg of your download speed, really all you need on Net Stat is incoming data, incoming totals and Local machine, right click on Net Stat anywhere, stactics and check these 3 items, the rest need not be checked unless you want them, all you care about is average.
Put system defrag in scheduled tasks to run everyday.
5. Probably the most important, nothing can be running during test, no firewalls, no virus stuff, no ICQ, no AIM (some of you may have to go into BIOS to disable virus scanner, nothing running except Net Stat live
Scheduled tasks will run disk defrag, 98 & SE in Taskbar, WIN ME in control panel
The people who want speed surfing or doing whatever must close all other programs.
(NOTE: at present time http://www.AOL.com seems to be fastest download site, at bottom download aol 6.0)
Or if you wish you may go to http://www.testmyspeed.com and do one of the online tests, these vary to much for me but you may like them.

Epiphany · Post by **Epiphany** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 11:07 am

xbit, I think it WAS dslreports. I can't seem to recreate the original slew of bad results; did several tests last night and all show 2% loss now, even using higher RWIN that seemed to cause problem before. I did tracert and pinged my gateway and the hops (is that what you meant?) and could not find any problem whatsoever. Thanks.

Lobo, RWIN too high?? Wah! I want a big one like other people, no fair! What makes it too high please?

Good ideas for doing speedtests. However, I test with firewall and anti-cookie/popup stuff all running because it seems I'm getting a more realistic result that way, i.e., just want to know what speed I can get/expect when I use my connection normally. I do a speed test at sympatico plus I download the same 3 files from the same locations, that's what I use to see if I'm going faster/slower. Downloads average out 127-132KB/s, the sympatico speed test 1000-1020kb/s at present settings... will try RWIN of 63888 and let you know how that works. Thanks.

P.S. You asked if I was talking about packet loss or retransmissions; I have no idea. I was doing the packet loss test at dslreports, the report said there was 'loss' at certain points, so I assumed that was packet loss but I don't know. (kind of new to all this, if you hadn't noticed!)

xbit · Post by **xbit** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 11:44 am

For rwin you could try 511104

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 12:13 pm

I don't believe your CPU is big enough to handle a RWIN that large, you can try

Epiphany · Post by **Epiphany** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 12:39 pm

Lobo, I have it at 63888 with no scaling now so I'll try that for a couple days and see how it looks. I'm making a little chart of numbers I try and writing down how the tests go over time and average them... so hopefully I'll come up with a number eventually that seems to outperform the others. What exactly happens if the Rwin is too big for my processor? Does it just slow down again or are there other problems?

Thanks xbit, I always like to try suggestions first before I start pulling numbers out of my... , uh, head. Will put that one on my list.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 12:52 pm

If the RWIN is to large, yes it will slow you down, the reason I said turn everything off while testing, is get your highest speed and then turn what you want on, here are some numbers another member posted that you can try: Remember if RWIN is above 65535 Tcp1323Opts must be set at 1 to enable scaling, try 87120, 92928, 130680, 139392, 174240, 185856, 217800, 232300, 261360, 278784, 304920, I know it's alot of numbers but I am on cable, not dsl, so take your time and find what works best for you, also see help page below 2nd page at bottom for Tips

Epiphany · Post by **Epiphany** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 1:58 pm

That's quite an eye-popping list

Thanks, will try those out too!

I understand why you would shut down a lot of things for the speed test... it's just that I never turn off the anti-cookie utils or my firewall (well almost never) so I might as well test what my speed is with them running. I suppose some time I might do a test like you suggested to find out the real maximum speed just out of curiousity. Thanks for your help as always.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:00 pm

You will notice big difference with those off

HalfLifer · Post by **HalfLifer** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:05 pm

RWIN wont care about CPU power or anything. Your connection cares..if too many or large windows are open, packets will be lost.

Lobo is terribly mistaken, it doesnt matter.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:12 pm

He's back with his one sided ways, hay kid, I mean DQ, and again if CPU size does not matter, why in your sig the patches go by CPU size and RAM which are system specs

HalfLifer · Post by **HalfLifer** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:14 pm

Originally posted by Lobo
He's back with his one sided ways, hay kid, I mean DQ, and again if CPU size does not matter, why in your sig the patches go by CPU size and RAM which are system specs

How many times must I explain this to you? You've asked this 12 times, probably out of spam, and Ive answered it every time. I said they work off NIC buffers, rwin isnt the only thing changes.

Learn some grammar, kid.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:16 pm

And you have always dodged the question, the patches go by CPU and RAM=system specs

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:23 pm

If CPU size and RAM, system specs don't matter, whats all this

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HalfLifer · Post by **HalfLifer** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:26 pm

Lobo,

I seriously am wondering if you have mental problems...I really am.

Ive said it: these specific ones do because they change the NIC buffers.....

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:28 pm

I know they change NIC buffers, the point is they go by CPU size and RAM

HalfLifer · Post by **HalfLifer** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:34 pm

Exactly, so it goes by NIC buffers. Regular tweaks like RWIN, MTU, TTl, etc dont care about system peformance!

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:37 pm

I'm not debating with you anymore, you do it your way and I will do it mine

HalfLifer · Post by **HalfLifer** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:41 pm

But others wont learn unless you teach them right!

Thats why Im trying to help! Theres nothing to debate Lobo.