Sandy sure has brought the climate change debate back to the forefront. Its sad that we need a human death toll to bring about discussion.
With that, are humans influencing global climate change?
I do believe in two things...weather is cyclical and natural and I believe that pollution is bad.
So to start a discussion, we all have to accept as truth/fact that our natural weather patterns are cyclical. We all know this to be true...we've had ice ages for crying out loud. So we can all agree that the earth changes. We can also agree that pollution exists. Every time you start your car's engine, you are releasing pollutants into the air. If you put your mouth on the tailpipe and breathed in, the pollutants would kill you. So we can all agree that pollution exists and we can all agree that the earth's weather patterns are cyclical.
Politically this is a mess and it doesn't need to be.
Let's stop conflating these two separate issues as each one can be handled individually.
First, since we all agree that the earth's weather is cyclical and can be extreme, we just need to be better prepared. Where we live and how we setup infrastructure will be critical to the conversation.
Secondly, since we all agree that pollution is bad, we need to seriously engage in better pollution control. From trash to nuclear waste, we need to look at EVERYTHING and do EVERYTHING to minimize it. I think everyone on the planet knows this to be true even in their own gut but they ignore it for whatever reason.
So let's agree that a serious discussion needs to happen quickly with regards to these two issues and that quick action is also necessary.
Global warming/Climate change and our current weather
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RaisinCain
- Posts: 1941
- Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:11 pm
The senior datum is that weather on this planet is not in a static pattern, it has fluctuated widely over the ages. That cyclic pattern, if it's even cyclic, is influenced by a multitude of factors: the planet's internal volcanic activity, energy waves from the sun and galaxy, miniscule changes in the earth's rotation & orbit, gravity from itself and the moon, and many other influences.
To a small degree, man affects earth weather too, but hardly enough to cause major shifts in weather patterns globally. I believe that pollution and excessive CO2 emissions should be monitored and in some cases regulated.
The plain truth about ice cap melting, rising temp trends and the other alarmist conditions is that no one knows for certain what the exact causes are. And it's unlikely that exact causes will be known in the next 1000 years either. Man has no accurate records of weather prior to about 200 tears. What was the tornado activity in the US 300 years ago? 1000 years ago?
As for cyclic earth weather, I tend to think that weather has a much higher degree of randomity than realized because there are so many factors that affect it. I'd even go a step further and say that our own thoughts have a degree of influence on the weather. Just how that it, I cannot say, it's just a perception of mine.
To a small degree, man affects earth weather too, but hardly enough to cause major shifts in weather patterns globally. I believe that pollution and excessive CO2 emissions should be monitored and in some cases regulated.
The plain truth about ice cap melting, rising temp trends and the other alarmist conditions is that no one knows for certain what the exact causes are. And it's unlikely that exact causes will be known in the next 1000 years either. Man has no accurate records of weather prior to about 200 tears. What was the tornado activity in the US 300 years ago? 1000 years ago?
As for cyclic earth weather, I tend to think that weather has a much higher degree of randomity than realized because there are so many factors that affect it. I'd even go a step further and say that our own thoughts have a degree of influence on the weather. Just how that it, I cannot say, it's just a perception of mine.
No one has any right to force data on you
and command you to believe it or else.
If it is not true for you, it isn't true.
LRH
and command you to believe it or else.
If it is not true for you, it isn't true.
LRH
TonyT wrote:The senior datum is that weather on this planet is not in a static pattern, it has fluctuated widely over the ages. That cyclic pattern, if it's even cyclic, is influenced by a multitude of factors: the planet's internal volcanic activity, energy waves from the sun and galaxy, miniscule changes in the earth's rotation & orbit, gravity from itself and the moon, and many other influences.
To a small degree, man affects earth weather too, but hardly enough to cause major shifts in weather patterns globally. I believe that pollution and excessive CO2 emissions should be monitored and in some cases regulated.
The plain truth about ice cap melting, rising temp trends and the other alarmist conditions is that no one knows for certain what the exact causes are. And it's unlikely that exact causes will be known in the next 1000 years either. Man has no accurate records of weather prior to about 200 tears. What was the tornado activity in the US 300 years ago? 1000 years ago?
As for cyclic earth weather, I tend to think that weather has a much higher degree of randomity than realized because there are so many factors that affect it. I'd even go a step further and say that our own thoughts have a degree of influence on the weather. Just how that it, I cannot say, it's just a perception of mine.
So you agree that due to the random nature of weather, that humans should be more proactive in taking preventive measures? And you also agree that man made pollution should be monitored and even regulated?
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Mad_Haggis
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4128
- Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:00 pm
Whe do the Europeans make a game called 2013, that starts with a super volcano underneath Washington, DC?JawZ wrote:So you agree that due to the random nature of weather, that humans should be more proactive in taking preventive measures? And you also agree that man made pollution should be monitored and even regulated?
Called Emergency?
BEER
Yes, I think we should take preventative measures and even monitor/regulate pollution, but not to the extreme that the global warming alarmists would want. For example, emission monitoring of cars is a good thing, but only in zones that need it, such as urban and very highly populated suburban areas. It's not necessary in rural zones. Some states enforce it in counties where there are very few cars and people solely for economic reasons.JawZ wrote:So you agree that due to the random nature of weather, that humans should be more proactive in taking preventive measures? And you also agree that man made pollution should be monitored and even regulated?
Most of the CO2 in the atmopsphere comes from the oceans, not pollution.
No one has any right to force data on you
and command you to believe it or else.
If it is not true for you, it isn't true.
LRH
and command you to believe it or else.
If it is not true for you, it isn't true.
LRH
JawZ wrote:Sandy sure has brought the climate change debate back to the forefront. Its sad that we need a human death toll to bring about discussion.
With that, are humans influencing global climate change?
I do believe in two things...weather is cyclical and natural and I believe that pollution is bad.
So to start a discussion, we all have to accept as truth/fact that our natural weather patterns are cyclical. We all know this to be true...we've had ice ages for crying out loud. So we can all agree that the earth changes. We can also agree that pollution exists. Every time you start your car's engine, you are releasing pollutants into the air. If you put your mouth on the tailpipe and breathed in, the pollutants would kill you. So we can all agree that pollution exists and we can all agree that the earth's weather patterns are cyclical.
Politically this is a mess and it doesn't need to be.
Let's stop conflating these two separate issues as each one can be handled individually.
First, since we all agree that the earth's weather is cyclical and can be extreme, we just need to be better prepared. Where we live and how we setup infrastructure will be critical to the conversation.
Secondly, since we all agree that pollution is bad, we need to seriously engage in better pollution control. From trash to nuclear waste, we need to look at EVERYTHING and do EVERYTHING to minimize it. I think everyone on the planet knows this to be true even in their own gut but they ignore it for whatever reason.
So let's agree that a serious discussion needs to happen quickly with regards to these two issues and that quick action is also necessary.
I recycle glass, paper and plastic.. my 5yr old daughter is in the routine now, we pitch those in the bin, and the truck comes on Friday and takes it away. I think it helps and I wish more people would do that.
_______________________________________________
Vendor neutral certified in IT Project Management, IT Security, Cisco Networking, Cisco Security, Wide Area Networks, IPv6, IT Hardware, Unix, Linux, and Windows server administration
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Vendor neutral certified in IT Project Management, IT Security, Cisco Networking, Cisco Security, Wide Area Networks, IPv6, IT Hardware, Unix, Linux, and Windows server administration
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
From an interesting article on New Scientist.
A short paragraph at the end of it.
Technically, though, the ice age has not actually ended. The ice has advanced and retreated many times over the past few million years, but some ice has always remained at the poles. Perhaps not for much longer, though. It took just a small increase in sunshine and a gradual, 70-ppm rise in CO2 to melt the great ice sheets that once covered Eurasia and America. Since the dawn of the industrial age levels have risen by 130 ppm and counting. If we haven't already pumped enough CO2 into the atmosphere to melt the ice sheets on Greenland and Antarctica, we might soon.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... tml?page=1
A couple of thoughts here. Of course it cyclical but again and one can argue till we all turn blue but the evidence is irrefutable that man is also affecting climate change.
Even if you don't believe its true, my personal opinion is non of us have the right to be such poor stewards of this spinning ball of rock and water, we call earth.
I think a more interesting subject is why oil and coal spend so much money on supporting the ideas that climate scientists are wrong while they fleece people as much as possible out of hard earned cash. I think it's obvious but then I don't pay much attention to Limbaugh (well over 30 million a year to make stuff up) or Fox News.. (nuff said)
Also by finding anything to argue about alternative energy.
Oh and by posting this...... I'm sure I'll draw the wrath of an unnamed biased super mod. hehe
A short paragraph at the end of it.
Technically, though, the ice age has not actually ended. The ice has advanced and retreated many times over the past few million years, but some ice has always remained at the poles. Perhaps not for much longer, though. It took just a small increase in sunshine and a gradual, 70-ppm rise in CO2 to melt the great ice sheets that once covered Eurasia and America. Since the dawn of the industrial age levels have risen by 130 ppm and counting. If we haven't already pumped enough CO2 into the atmosphere to melt the ice sheets on Greenland and Antarctica, we might soon.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... tml?page=1
A couple of thoughts here. Of course it cyclical but again and one can argue till we all turn blue but the evidence is irrefutable that man is also affecting climate change.
Even if you don't believe its true, my personal opinion is non of us have the right to be such poor stewards of this spinning ball of rock and water, we call earth.
I think a more interesting subject is why oil and coal spend so much money on supporting the ideas that climate scientists are wrong while they fleece people as much as possible out of hard earned cash. I think it's obvious but then I don't pay much attention to Limbaugh (well over 30 million a year to make stuff up) or Fox News.. (nuff said)
Also by finding anything to argue about alternative energy.
Oh and by posting this...... I'm sure I'll draw the wrath of an unnamed biased super mod. hehe
The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, and prejudices to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all of its own for the children and the children yet unborn and the pity of it is that these things cannot be confined to the Twilight Zone.
my wife & myself do a good job of recycling(cardboard/milk/meat trays/etc/etc),Shinobi wrote:I recycle glass, paper and plastic.. my 5yr old daughter is in the routine now, we pitch those in the bin, and the truck comes on Friday and takes it away. I think it helps and I wish more people would do that.
every week we have two cans picked up,trash & recycle,
and I recycle for money all my cans,bottles,& water bottle plastic.(good for more beer money ! LOL)
The current method of regulation, purchasing carbon credits is farcical to the point of insulting. If governments consider overpolluting criminal, they should force such entities into compliance or be shut down. Creating credits, rightfully produces the image of a money grab, a pollution tax. Perhaps speeding credits, would be a more palatable method of tithing.
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Mad_Haggis
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4128
- Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:00 pm
