Tcp/Mtu for online gaming?

Outlaw · Post by **Outlaw** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:23 am

First Hi All,

I'm new to this forum and have a question/issue.

I have a very stable cable connection 8000/1200 ,wich i use for playing Call of Duty online.
Have tried alot of different settings with TCP optimiser ,but always suffer from the same problem:

When playing online , sometimes my game runs normal and i hit everything,
and the next it runs crap ,and i have to shoot more than double the shots for one kill.
Also on close combat ,it seems like my opponents are twice as fast ,and i can burst complete mags of ammo and still no hits.
This is no FPS thing ,and i'm sure it has something to do with networking.

My thought is that my connection maybe is too stable/fast for this game ,and i should tweak it down to delay .
As i often have the feeling ,my packets get dropped by the server ,because the moment has passed before the info from other players has arrived.

I know this maybe sounds stupid ,but is there anyone who has the same experiences ,or know something about this?

As i'm on Teamspeak mostly while playing , i sometimes get reactions from other players who say "you just entered the room ,and i just killed you" .
As in my game ,i was in that room already for more than two seconds ,and had shot that other player 10 times already.
And ofcourse ,nothing happened with my shots.

Some help with this would be great,.................

Thanks

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:15 am

sounds like your ISP is dropping packets on you.. from your description of your speeds I'd guess you have someone similar to comcast. Call them up and complain..but don't back down cause if they don't get it fixed you need to keep calling till the problem is fixed.

http://www.pingplotter.com is a nice little program you can set to 1second trace intervals to test your packetloss.. just download the regular version.

Outlaw · Post by **Outlaw** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:49 am

Tx Sava for your advice ,

But i'm pretty sure that it isn't my ISP wich drops the packets.
I've even switched ISP three times ,because i thought it was packetloss the first six months.
Than i started to monitor my packetloss ,and it is almost down to zero.
I've tested this at several different times , to be sure it doesn't just happen when the traffic is the highest.
My hunch is that the gameserver drops my packets because the game software can't handle the different connection speeds ,and therefore waits for the slower connections ,and drops the packets from people who have fast traffic ,because the moment has passed as soon as the last packet arrived.
I know this sounds strange ,and it is complicated stuff ,i don't really understand myself.
Another option could be the TCP window being too high , so your comp doesn't send the smaller gamepackets until your data reach a certain size.

I'm mainly interested in finding out ,how this works exactly, and what the optimal setting would be for gaming ,especially older online games.
But i will have a look at the pingplotter proggy anyway.

Any ideas?

Thanks..............

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:58 am

Your connection would not be too fast for playing online.
Are you behind a router?
Do you run wireless on your network? If so, is it locked down?
Any other PCs sharing your connection?

Outlaw · Post by **Outlaw** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:51 am

I use wired connection ,and there is only one pc connected .
I have a cable router on wich my Net and Phone are connected ,both direct with cable.

Type : Touchstone / Arris telephony modem Tm 401B

And i have been using other modems ,as i had Dsl connection before i went to cable.

Basicly the problem was the same on every connection i had till now.
Only as i first started playing Cod online ,i had a 2 meg Dsl connection.
And i didn't have this problem then i think.
Then this provider upgraded to 4 megs and the problem started.
So i switched to another provider ,wich had a 6 meg dsl , and this one was the worst regarding this problem.
So i switched again to my current 8 meg cable , and this one is the most stable regarding up/download speeds .
On every test i run it hits the 8 meg mark ,and the upload also runs max.
So it's perfect for up/downloading, just this problem with gaming remains.........
As i got a different comp at the same time with the 2 till 4 megs upgrade ,i also have investigated my comp for internal lag etc.
But everything seems to be 100% ,so i'm puzzled about this.........?

Thanks for your help till now.

yoyaz · Post by **yoyaz** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:13 am

is this realy outlaw .. from ta?

Outlaw · Post by **Outlaw** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:38 am

Hi Yoyaz,

Nope ,it's just a player name i sometimes used for playing COD online.
My normal player name is B@bouchon ,and i'm not in a clan anymore.
Think i already registered here with this name ,but i changed email adres ,so had to reregister with a different name.
That's all.........

yoyaz · Post by **yoyaz** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:59 pm

damn u had me freaked out thought u were outlaw from *TA*.. which nobody has seen for atleast a week and a half O.o, Btw, you should join *TA*

Outlaw · Post by **Outlaw** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:24 pm

Do you mean TA ,as in Tartan Army Yoyaz?
If so i know this clan ,and have been playing on their server a few times, last year.

Anyway ,nobody got an answer to my problem ,or any tips i could use?

Only hunch i have myself , is that setting my TCP to around 256000 seems to work better than setting it to 512000 , but further than that i can't tell.
Has anyone been trying to set it to 64000 range ,so without window scaling ,and notice online gaming was better or worse with this setting ?

These are my current settings:

MTU 1500
Black hole detect No
Mtu discovery YES
Selective acks YES
Max duplicate acks 2
TCP receive window 256960
TTL 64
Window scaling ON
3com etherlink adapter
Max con per serv 10
max con per 01 serv 10
local priority 5
host priority 6
DNS priority 7
Netbt priority 8
lan browsing speedup optimised
Qos 0
DNS error caching ,all values 0
Lan request buffer size 16384

This is when i optimise for 4 meg connection.
Like i said ,it seems to be a little better than having the larger tcp of 513920.
That's why i mostly use this 4 meg setting.

Any ideas?

Thanks ,

yoyaz · Post by **yoyaz** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:50 am

no its a bf2 based clan *TA* team america

Outlaw · Post by **Outlaw** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:13 am

So no experts on online gaming setup over here then?

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:03 pm

Things that can affect your online gaming performance...
*Your choice of ISP..not all ISPs are created equal. Some are better than others. Online gaming latency isn't always tied in with how much bandwidth you have...but the quality of what you had. Years ago I had a 1500/384 bridged DSL connection, 2x of us could play BF2 from my LAN, both of us also using TeamSpeak...and the online play was excellent. Factor in that, since I was somewhat distant from the CO, my online speed benchmarks were only 700/300. My online gaming was much better than the current cable ISP I have now...which is a 6000/384 account which benchmarks at about 5800/320.

*Your choice of router...basic older models are OK for single players, as you add more computers..they can get bogged down a bit.

*Health of your computers, free from bandwidth sucking ad/malware.

*Your choice of antivirus..some antivirus software bogs down your PC more than others

*If you run an additional software firewall, some can slow down your connection a bit..added CPU cycles

*What settings you have your game set to, as far as connection speed...the "game rate". This is in your games setup options, where you select what connection you have. Try a lower settings, it will use less bandwidth if you're choking.

*Game resolution...higher resolutions can demand more updates from the server, possibly putting you over the edge of what your bandwidth can support

*Other traffic on your connection. If you have other PCs on your network..are they clean? Doing anything?

*MTU should be set correctly based on what your connection type is. This includes the setting on your router as well as your computer. PPPoE DSL, usually 1492. Bridged DSL and cable, 1500. RWIN..I always just left mine at whatever the SG TCP Optimizer suggested was good for my connection speed based on the scale. The 256960 should be fine, back when I had higher speed Comcast cable I ran at 513920 and it was fine. You can experiment with this yourself..all peoples systems are different, takes just a few seconds to apply, reboot..and launch your game and try to see how it runs on the current setting.

*Make sure you're not double NAT'd..meaning, some people add their own routers to what they think is just a modem from their ISP..but in fact that "modem" is actually a gateway...combo modem/router device that is already running NAT. IMO, always best to run just 1x NAT device on your own network..either use the ISPs device, or "bridge" that device and use your own router.

*If you happen to run wireless..is it locked down well? Any neighbors sucking from your connection without you knowing it?

Outlaw · Post by **Outlaw** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:49 pm

Thanks Stonecat,

Atleast some descent info here.

I already had a look at most of your points you mention.

* about the antivirus and firewall ,i run completely without them.
this was the first step i took ,when the problems arrised.
To be sure these weren't the problem.

* health of computer is perfect and adware , dns cache , and internet history and cookies cleared.

* My computer is connected wired ,and singly connected to the ISP's cable Modem.
* No additional background software running wich uses bandwith.
* Yes ,the MTU settings don't seem to make alot of difference , probably psychological mostly....lol

* The game ( Call of duty UO) is standard set to max rate 25000, and the connection option is dsl/cable.
Didn't alter this till now.

* There is an option called "maxpackets" with wich i fiddled alot ,with different results .
Some days it seemed to help on a certain server ,and it was worse on another.

* My connection is 8000/1200 cable with 7800/1140 benchmarks.
* Nowadays play with 1600x1200 ,but used to play at 1280x1024 , and the problem was already there then.
* also tried alot different max fps settings ,wich also doesn't seem to make a big difference.

* Don't have any additional info on my modem ,but i'll try to google it ,and see what i find out about it.

Same as you're telling , on my first connection 2000/256 dsl connection ,
i was on Skype with a friend ,and playing COD at the same time .
And never any problems then ,although skype uses more bandwith then Teamspeak.
Think it started as they upgraded to 4000/ 512 , so it's certainly strange.
That's why i switched my ISP three times till now.

Or are the today's connectons less stable than the first dsl ones , and do they have priority protocols installed to provide the today's connection speeds to their customers ,and therefore disadvantage online gamers?

B.t.w. i always have very good pings ,and mostly play on servers between 25 and 45 ping ,so that's not the problem.
Just shooting rubber bullets 7 out of ten times.
And it sometimes looks like the game literally "chokes" like you said.
And other players seem twice as fast in close combat.

Thanks alot till now...........

Outlaw · Post by **Outlaw** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:16 pm

Update:

I've been reading an article about refresh rates /Fps etc today.
They claimed there was no use in running more fps then your monitor's refresh rate.
Because your monitor could get out of sync with your graphics card ,and screen tearing and no accurate views could be the result.
Although i didn't suffer from tearing , i certainly believe my monitor and GPU were out of sync.
As i played a game tonight ,it was a world of difference , with V-sync on ,and both monitor and GPU to 60 Hz and 60 Fps.
Almost all previous symptoms were resolved by this , and my whole experience was different.

*On upclose battles the other players weren't twice as fast anymore
*My movements in game seemed to me much more accurate ,and so was the aiming.
*Ping even dropped from a normal 30 to about 15

Before i suffered from:

I mostly had the feeling "my view" ran ahead of the game .
1) like shooting from a window , duck behind it ,and still got shot through the wall .
2) Running into a room ,empty a whole mag ,and still got shot by the opponent who just sat there ,and fired one shot.( and the guy told me "you just got into the room and never fired a single shot at me" ?)
3) My shots didn't arrive ,atleast they missed target alot, although my view showed perfect hits everytime.

I didn't notice these things at all tonight.
So don't know ,if the desync could get that bad ,but i'm gonna test this some more to find out.

Not sure if this is the whole solution ,and if all problems have gone ,
but i'm gonna test this setting for awhile ,and will post my findings.

Thanks for now..............

B@b

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:21 pm

Outlaw wrote:Update:

I've been reading an article about refresh rates /Fps etc today.
They claimed there was no use in running more fps then your monitor's refresh rate.
Because your monitor could get out of sync with your graphics card ,and screen tearing and no accurate views could be the result.
Although i didn't suffer from tearing , i certainly believe my monitor and GPU were out of sync.
As i played a game tonight ,it was a world of difference , with V-sync on ,and both monitor and GPU to 60 Hz and 60 Fps.
Almost all previous symptoms were resolved by this , and my whole experience was different.

*On upclose battles the other players weren't twice as fast anymore
*My movements in game seemed to me much more accurate ,and so was the aiming.
*Ping even dropped from a normal 30 to about 15

Before i suffered from:

I mostly had the feeling "my view" ran ahead of the game .
1) like shooting from a window , duck behind it ,and still got shot through the wall .
2) Running into a room ,empty a whole mag ,and still got shot by the opponent who just sat there ,and fired one shot.( and the guy told me "you just got into the room and never fired a single shot at me" ?)
3) My shots didn't arrive ,atleast they missed target alot, although my view showed perfect hits everytime.

I didn't notice these things at all tonight.
So don't know ,if the desync could get that bad ,but i'm gonna test this some more to find out.

Not sure if this is the whole solution ,and if all problems have gone ,
but i'm gonna test this setting for awhile ,and will post my findings.

Thanks for now..............

B@b

I have to say...wow....I've been silently watching this thread and am an adamant gamer. I play the BF series and run a clan. I just can't believe that V-Sync is fixing what I see as bullet registration/hitbox issues. So because BF2 has such lousy registration...I'm going to enable V-Sync and see what happens. I'll report back with my findings.

Outlaw · Post by **Outlaw** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:36 pm

Update:

I finally found the answer to this .
Was told to me by a game engine ,connection expert .

It's the netcode for COD /UO wich is the culpritt ,atleast it is for low ping and stable connection players.
Turns out the netcode for COD /UO is setup for high ping /unstable connection players.
So this means servers adjust to the worst connected players ,and they are the only ones who have a "real time" game.
What they see/shoot at is what they'll hit ,and other players shoot at predicted targets.
And prediction differs alot from verified position ,plus that the position has to be verified from the slow connected player to.
I've found an article too about this ,and will post if there would be some interest for it.
Seems like the cod netcode was made to give high ping players a descent game , and at the time the game was launched probably was a good idea.(approx 4 years ago)

But since connections and hardware changed alot since then ,these games just can't cope with it anymore ,and cause desync between players at the servers.

He also told me that more recent netcodes are designed the other way around .
So the best ping /most stable networked player has the advantage in game ,and the laggers just have bad luck.

It's still a shame for COD UO ,still love this game to death ,but think i'll have to move on to newer FPS , or find me a server were i am the worst connected player.