Michigan Man Fined for Using Coffee Shop's Wi-Fi Network

[Prey521]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,276720,00.html

A Michigan man has been fined $400 and given 40 hours of community service for accessing an open wireless Internet connection outside a coffee shop.

Under a little known state law against computer hackers, Sam Peterson II, of Cedar Springs, Mich., faced a felony charge after cops found him on March 27 sitting in front of the Re-Union Street Café in Sparta, Mich., surfing the Web from his brand-new laptop.

[mountainman]

Time for a new av...

[RoundEye]

Time for a new av...

Looks like Fat Albert's mug shot.

[Rainbow]

If he has any kind of brain he would have beat that without even trying..

[TonyT]

If he has any kind of brain he would have beat that without even trying..

...but it would have cost him about 10 grand or more in legal fees. Cheaper to pay the fine.

[Noevo]

If it's free for customers of the coffee shop why is okay for him to be sitting in his car in the street and using it? can't be blamed on the coffee shop having it unsecured, that's like saying it's okay to steal a car because it's unlocked.

I don't totally disagree with the law, seems like it has it's place to me

[Izzo]

If it's free for customers of the coffee shop why is okay for him to be sitting in his car in the street and using it? can't be blamed on the coffee shop having it unsecured, that's like saying it's okay to steal a car because it's unlocked.

I don't totally disagree with the law, seems like it has it's place to me

Saw an interview with the owner of the shop...she couldn't care less...it was the local cops observation of the guy checking email in his car......

all he had to say was that he was going to buy a cup of coffee and this is a non issue



edit> I wardrive every day on my way home from work

[Norm]

Saw an interview with the owner of the shop...she couldn't care less...it was the local cops observation of the guy checking email in his car......

all he had to say was that he was going to buy a cup of coffee and this is a non issue



edit> I wardrive every day on my way home from work

Maybe the owner will change the Network name to "Public" now, and save others the same fate.

[Izzo]

Maybe the owner will change the Network name to "Public" now, and save others the same fate.

Hope so.....400.00 bucks is ouch....

[YeOldeStonecat]

It's a gray area.

Coffee shops usually run "open" wireless networks...with the intention of it being a value add service for their clients. People go into coffee shops...purchase coffee, muffins, bagels, etc etc. So the coffee shops make money that way..and offer this service as a value add, and a draw. People will surf for hours..and spend more money on coffee and snacks.

The coffee shop owner certainly doesn't want moochers to sit within range...not spending money inside the coffee shop....mooching all of this bandwidth for free.

Yet it's not practical to try to setup some sort of captive portal with passwords 'n such. The determined moocher (such as this guy obviously) would certainly be able to find out the "password of the day" just by asking someone who's leaving with a laptop bag.

So while this doesn't appear as bad as mooching off of a neighbors unsecured wireless LAN....legally it's not as bad, it wouldn't fly in court, but still a form of abusing a service. Sort of more of a moral gray area.

[TonyT]

So while this doesn't appear as bad as mooching off of a neighbors unsecured wireless LAN....legally it's not as bad, it wouldn't fly in court, but still a form of abusing a service. Sort of more of a moral gray area.

Actually, it would fly in court!
There are no federal laws regulating whether or not one wirelessly connects to someone else's wlan. The only law, an FCC law, states clearly that it is legal to receive any unencrypted wifi signals and data transmitted, but it is absolutely illegal to receive encrypted data wirelessly w/out permission of the wlan owner. This law covers all wireless transmissions & data be it 80211 comps, cell phones, baby monitors, cordless phones, etc.

Because there are no clear federal laws re using someone unsecured wlan, and no precedents have been set in federal courts yet, the feds have left regulating it to the states and municipalities, and a local law in existance will fly in their local courts. No one has challenged a local law all the way to the supreme court yet, it's cheaper to pay a few hundred bucks fine.

There are federal laws re theft of services, connecting to networks w/out permission, etc.

Wardriving is 100% legal per FCC laws. The legality of wardriving and then using a discovered unsecured wlan is regulated by local or state laws. Wardriving and then connecting to wlans w/out permission and accesing other clients on the wlan is illegal per federal law.

Some states, such as Vermont, have enacted laws that place the responsibility of securing wlans upon the owners of them, and thus one cannot be charged for using someone else's wlan w/out permission.

[jeremyboycool]

faced a felony charge

That's a little much. A felony could mark him for life.

He probably did something to upset the cops so they nailed him on what ever they could fabricate.

[RoundEye]

....He probably did something to upset the cops so they nailed him on what ever they could fabricate.....

Cops don't always have to fabricate things. Years ago a friend of mine got kicked out of his house. He parked his car by one of those mini-mart stores and plugged in his coffee pot to brew before work.

The cops pulled up and arrested him for "theft of electricity". He had priors on his record for stealing cassette tapes and they took him straight to jail and impounded his car.

That’s why I had my record expunged. If a cop ask me if I ever been arrested, I can say “No”. You can see the look of “Bullchit” on their faces, but when they run my name it comes up clean.

[Bailenforcer]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,276720,00.html

HELP!
I need to find out whos been stealing my internet connection (wireless) I live in Northern Michigan in the dang woods and I have someone stealing my internet. I want to leave it open but I have seen usage and see the footprint on my 2Wire network from a computer called ( YOUR-6BCD7F2FB7 ) and another one I forget at this time. I am concerned they might download something ilegal or worse yet. And I want to keep it open for when company shows up. Is there a way I can set a splash page to warn them to keep out? Is there a way I pull some harmless prank to scare them away, and if not I will need proof to whom they are to prosecute if it comes to that. I have an idea who it is but have no proof. I am open to any ideas.

And No it's not any computer I have, or my friends.

Thanks


bailenforcer@gmail.com

[Bailenforcer]

If it's free for customers of the coffee shop why is okay for him to be sitting in his car in the street and using it? can't be blamed on the coffee shop having it unsecured, that's like saying it's okay to steal a car because it's unlocked.

I don't totally disagree with the law, seems like it has it's place to me

I fail to understand the stupidity of internet and computer users. Why would anyone think it's perfectly ok to steal? Either candy, cars, or internet. If the shoe is on the other foot those who think it's ok to steal would scream bloody murder. Any moron knows it isn't legal to steal internet, my children know this. I get sick of those who try and justify stupid behavior. And the nerds who justify this anarchist mentality would be the first to perish in that anarchist society they so promote. I am old school Let's hang the horse thieves! As Libertarian as I am, I have no patience for thieves, as they steal the lives of others and think it's perfectly ok. It takes a certain period of a mans life to make enough money to buy something, and they think it's ok to remove that portion of life from someone. It's no different that killing someone slowly, minute by minute, hour by hour, month by month, however long it took to buy the item stolen. This includes services like internet. Think hard about that lawless society you thieves want, that lawless society also would allow the victims to kill to protect what is theirs. There are lines people should never cross, and being a thief is one.

[Izzo]

I fail to understand the stupidity of internet and computer users. Why would anyone think it's perfectly ok to steal? Either candy, cars, or internet. If the shoe is on the other foot those who think it's ok to steal would scream bloody murder. Any moron knows it isn't legal to steal internet, my children know this. I get sick of those who try and justify stupid behavior. And the nerds who justify this anarchist mentality would be the first to perish in that anarchist society they so promote. I am old school Let's hang the horse thieves! As Libertarian as I am, I have no patience for thieves, as they steal the lives of others and think it's perfectly ok. It takes a certain period of a mans life to make enough money to buy something, and they think it's ok to remove that portion of life from someone. It's no different that killing someone slowly, minute by minute, hour by hour, month by month, however long it took to buy the item stolen. This includes services like internet. Think hard about that lawless society you thieves want, that lawless society also would allow the victims to kill to protect what is theirs. There are lines people should never cross, and being a thief is one.

[Bailenforcer]

Actually, it would fly in court!
There are no federal laws regulating whether or not one wirelessly connects to someone else's wlan. The only law, an FCC law, states clearly that it is legal to receive any unencrypted wifi signals and data transmitted, but it is absolutely illegal to receive encrypted data wirelessly w/out permission of the wlan owner. This law covers all wireless transmissions & data be it 80211 comps, cell phones, baby monitors, cordless phones, etc.

Because there are no clear federal laws re using someone unsecured wlan, and no precedents have been set in federal courts yet, the feds have left regulating it to the states and municipalities, and a local law in existance will fly in their local courts. No one has challenged a local law all the way to the supreme court yet, it's cheaper to pay a few hundred bucks fine.

There are federal laws re theft of services, connecting to networks w/out permission, etc.

Wardriving is 100% legal per FCC laws. The legality of wardriving and then using a discovered unsecured wlan is regulated by local or state laws. Wardriving and then connecting to wlans w/out permission and accesing other clients on the wlan is illegal per federal law.

Some states, such as Vermont, have enacted laws that place the responsibility of securing wlans upon the owners of them, and thus one cannot be charged for using someone else's wlan w/out permission.

Laws are often written by the likes of Ted Kennedy types who love criminals and hate law abiding Americans. Theft is theft no matter the UNJUST law or excuse. I should not have to lock my home to protect me from criminals. In Michigan we finally woke up with the new Castle doctrine law. It's high time we say enough is enough to the criminals and the lawyers in congress who protect them. Not even and idiot can say he didn't know, theft is theft. The Federal laws are in direct violation to the principles of our constitution and civilization, if they allow the theft of that which is paid for by others. If you want FREE then get together and put up free wilans, quit stealing mine and make excuses as to why I should tolerate scum stealing from me. I play Xbox and have had so much bandwith taken by my hacker neighbor dope sucking freak that I wasn't able to even play. He makes more money than I do, maybe he needs to buy less dope and then he could afford to have internet. I have been patient for too long. Soon the other shoe will drop. Then he will probably whine about how unfair it is that he can't prey on others anymore and how harsh the consequences are for being a thief.
This moron can't have a telephone because he refuses to pay his bills, can't get cable internet, DSL, even electric is in his mothers name because he won't pay for what he uses, yet he can smoke and ounce of dope a week. Theres something wrong when a single man makes $40,000. a year plus. and can't afford anything because his dope habit is so out of control. I wasn't born yesterday I know what it smells like, I try and be a good Libertarian and look the other way, but his theft will eventually bring the dope cops around if he keeps it up. If that is what I have to do to stop him from leaching off me I will. Theres a consequence for every action. And yes I have asked him to stop he just denys it. Problem is hes so dumb his compuer ID number has his name on it LOL. And I remember it from the time a year ago I fixed his computer.
Lets hang horse thieves......

[Bailenforcer]

Only a parasite would back up other parasites.
Obviosuly some only read a line or two of a post and decide from that point what to say in response. There is no defending theft, period.

[Bailenforcer]

Actually, it would fly in court!
There are no federal laws regulating whether or not one wirelessly connects to someone else's wlan. The only law, an FCC law, states clearly that it is legal to receive any unencrypted wifi signals and data transmitted, but it is absolutely illegal to receive encrypted data wirelessly w/out permission of the wlan owner. This law covers all wireless transmissions & data be it 80211 comps, cell phones, baby monitors, cordless phones, etc.

Because there are no clear federal laws re using someone unsecured wlan, and no precedents have been set in federal courts yet, the feds have left regulating it to the states and municipalities, and a local law in existance will fly in their local courts. No one has challenged a local law all the way to the supreme court yet, it's cheaper to pay a few hundred bucks fine.

There are federal laws re theft of services, connecting to networks w/out permission, etc.

Wardriving is 100% legal per FCC laws. The legality of wardriving and then using a discovered unsecured wlan is regulated by local or state laws. Wardriving and then connecting to wlans w/out permission and accesing other clients on the wlan is illegal per federal law.

Some states, such as Vermont, have enacted laws that place the responsibility of securing wlans upon the owners of them, and thus one cannot be charged for using someone else's wlan w/out permission.

That is so typical of Vermont to protect the criminals not the victims.

[Izzo]

Only a parasite would back up other parasites.
Obviosuly some only read a line or two of a post and decide from that point what to say in response. There is no defending theft, period.

[YeOldeStonecat]

Just setup WPA security..it's so_easy to setup, and so_easy to configure a client PC to it...unlike old clunky WEP. Really doesn't add any difficulty in having people use it when they come over..you just tell them the passphrase.

HELP!
I need to find out whos been stealing my internet connection (wireless) I live in Northern Michigan in the dang woods and I have someone stealing my internet. I want to leave it open but I have seen usage and see the footprint on my 2Wire network from a computer called ( YOUR-6BCD7F2FB7 ) and another one I forget at this time. I am concerned they might download something ilegal or worse yet. And I want to keep it open for when company shows up. Is there a way I can set a splash page to warn them to keep out? Is there a way I pull some harmless prank to scare them away, and if not I will need proof to whom they are to prosecute if it comes to that. I have an idea who it is but have no proof. I am open to any ideas.

And No it's not any computer I have, or my friends.

Thanks


bailenforcer@gmail.com

[Bailenforcer]

It's a gray area.

Coffee shops usually run "open" wireless networks...with the intention of it being a value add service for their clients. People go into coffee shops...purchase coffee, muffins, bagels, etc etc. So the coffee shops make money that way..and offer this service as a value add, and a draw. People will surf for hours..and spend more money on coffee and snacks.

The coffee shop owner certainly doesn't want moochers to sit within range...not spending money inside the coffee shop....mooching all of this bandwidth for free.

Yet it's not practical to try to setup some sort of captive portal with passwords 'n such. The determined moocher (such as this guy obviously) would certainly be able to find out the "password of the day" just by asking someone who's leaving with a laptop bag.

So while this doesn't appear as bad as mooching off of a neighbors unsecured wireless LAN....legally it's not as bad, it wouldn't fly in court, but still a form of abusing a service. Sort of more of a moral gray area.

Moral grey area?!?!? HUH? Theft is theft, the coffee shop owner provided a service to lure customers, give the more value for their dollar spent, that is a good thing! I own small businesses and know the costs involved, commercial internet normally costs far more than residential internet for the same bandwidth. Here in Michigan charter charges$39.99 a month for 3 megs, the comercial cost is $129.00 a month plus othe hidden fees. The taxes a small business pays is far more than you or any large corporation pays. We need to relaize that the small business man/woman risks all their lifes worth to start and run a business, a corporation only risks the investors money per se.
So to answer it might not be as bad, yes it is! Because that small business owner pays much more for it. Oh and if you think that StarBucks is a big Corporation think again! It's most likely a franchise where the business owner/franchise holder had to pay well over anywhere from $200,000 to well over a million to start up a franchise operation. So if you had to borrow that much money to start a business you would be a little ruffled at the man sitting out front like a bum, stealing what you had to pay so much for.

Think! trust me it will not hurt to think....

[RoundEye]

....Lets hang horse thieves......

Then shoot him and be done with it. We all know that stealing some bandwidth is justification enough to take a man’s life.

You need to put your wifi back in the box and return it to the manufacturer.

[Izzo]

You need to put your wifi back in the box and return it to the manufacturer.

exactly...

[RoundEye]

....Think! trust me it will not hurt to think....

I think you should heed your own advice. Statements like that from a new guy to a respected member of the board ain’t going to get you one damn bit of help. Get off your friggin moral high horse, or go the hell away.

We got a lot of helpful people around here, but you’re starting off on the wrong foot.

[Indy]

.

[YeOldeStonecat]

Think! trust me it will not hurt to think....

Pause..and re-read before you pounce to insult...it's not that scarey to read past the first 5 words...you obviously missed my stance on it.

[burple]

I will try to keep this simple and as logical as possible. You do not want anyone "stealing" your bandwidth then do not leave it open. If you chose to leave it open then it is your own damn fault. If you have friends come over and want to share then give them access to log on to the network and then change it when they leave if you are that worried. Not rocket science here.

[Kyle]

You need to put your wifi back in the box and return it to the manufacturer.

Rep sent!

[Lefty]

Only a parasite would back up other parasites.
Obviosuly some only read a line or two of a post and decide from that point what to say in response. There is no defending theft, period.

Think! trust me it will not hurt to think....

[Shinobi]

I will try to keep this simple and as logical as possible. You do not want anyone "stealing" your bandwidth then do not leave it open. If you chose to leave it open then it is your own damn fault. If you have friends come over and want to share then give them access to log on to the network and then change it when they leave if you are that worried. Not rocket science here.

People really don't care.. sad but true... but they scream all bloody hell when they think that "they", are being taken advantage of.
Check this out..
One of my neighbors has a WAP and it is wide open. I talked to him, and I told him that I would help him out, and show him how to enable WEP / WPA. He didn't care if people could access the internet off of his Wireless router. Even when I told him that people could do anything..
like sniffing his network for passwords.. or hacking other computers.
And "his" I.P. address would be the one listed... He just didn't care.

[Xpunge]

People really don't care.. sad but true... but they scream all bloody hell when they think that "they", are being taken advantage of.
Check this out..
One of my neighbors has a WAP and it is wide open. I talked to him, and I told him that I would help him out, and show him how to enable WEP / WPA. He didn't care if people could access the internet off of his Wireless router. Even when I told him that people could do anything..
like sniffing his network for passwords.. or hacking other computers.
And "his" I.P. address would be the one listed... He just didn't care.

It gives him plausible deniability when he gets the Lawsuit letter from the RIAA. To date, the only people to have "Beat" a RIAA lawsuit are the ones who had open WiFi. Being ignorant of the possibility of someone else using their connection to down/upload songs seems to get you a "get out of jail free" card.

[TonyT]

I wasn't born yesterday I know what it smells like, I try and be a good Libertarian and look the other way, but his theft will eventually bring the dope cops around if he keeps it up.

Therein lies the source of the problems with you and your neighbor! The "liberatarian look the other way" attitude actually contributes to crime. People with no balz, who are afraid to confront-face what is happening around them, typically turn a blind eye. There is no inbetween when it comes to this, you either are party to a crime or you are not. Witness a crime, fail to DO something about it and take some responsibility, then you in essence are then condoning it.

It works like this:
1. man sees or knows of a crime.
2, man disagrees with what he sees, thinks he should do something about it.
3. man gets scared.
4. man comes up w/ reasons why he should not get involved.
5. man complains about how rampant crime is, complains about his neighbor.
6. man votes the democratic party ticket because some liberal politician, who himself habitually turns a blind eye, promised to reduce crime.
7. crime rate increases.
8. citizens lose freedoms & rights because laws made stricter.
9. man gets angrier & more upset about crime.
10. man decides to now do something about it and becomes a cop! (soon enough, security ios the only expanding job market!)