Microsoft Starts Banning 360s on LIVE - MS Confirms

[Rivas]

No its liek saying I can tell what kinda firmware(bios) your mobo has on it, and that is possible.

Hello ?????? We are talking about consoles and not PC's.

And a person shouldn't be banned for tinkering around with their own property.

[Joel]

Hello ?????? We are talking about consoles and not PC's.

And a person shouldn't be banned for tinkering around with their own property.

The lines between consoles and PCs are extremely blurred these days.

+.02

[YARDofSTUF]

Hello ?????? We are talking about consoles and not PC's.

And a person shouldn't be banned for tinkering around with their own property.

Its similar hardware.

[Rivas]

Its similar hardware.

Ya, you are the expert

[Jim]

And a person shouldn't be banned for tinkering around with their own property.

A person banned from XBL isn't banned from using their own products. You can still use the machine. Hell, you can still use it online using programs like XBConnect.

When you sign up for Live, you agree to the TOS Microsoft has for it.

You also may not use it in a way that harms us or our affiliates, resellers, distributors, service providers, partners and/or suppliers (collectively, the "Microsoft Parties"), or any customer of a Microsoft Party. Some examples of harmful activity that we do not permit include:

(vii) exploiting any bug, or making unauthorized modifications to any software or data, in the Service or particular game to gain unfair advantage in a game.

You agree that you are using authorized software and hardware to access the Service, and that your software and hardware have not been modified in any unauthorized way (e.g., authorized repairs, upgrades and downloads). Any attempt to disassemble, decompile, create derivative works of, reverse engineer, modify, further sublicense, distribute, or use for other purposes either the hardware or software associated with an original Xbox or Xbox 360 console or the Service, is strictly prohibited and may result in cancellation of your account and/or your ability to access the Service

Whether you believe it is right or not, this is something everyone clicked "I Agree" to when they first signed onto XBOX Live.

[Rivas]

Ok lets end this, it's like well not arguing but it's going like never ending story.

Wondering what are going to be next MS steps to resolve this issue.

[pinguinosupremo]

you didnt even flash your drive with new firmware, there you go ...also there are no reports that users with new firmware got banned ...
The most interesting thing is they are banning users that didnt touch their consoles at all.

dude.. all over the place.. even the new firmwares are getting banned.. it doesn't matter.. check different sites.. private trackers.. like BCG.. hell pete should be able to tell you that.. we're in the same place.. check the forums.. you'll see that people even with the newest firmware for both hitachi and samsung.

IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT...

*runs around in circles in panic*

so banned yet rivas?

[Rivas]

When you sign up for Live, you agree to the TOS Microsoft has for it.


Whether you believe it is right or not, this is something everyone clicked "I Agree" to when they first signed onto XBOX Live.

I didnt sign up for XBL and I didnt agree with any TOS.
I didnt get bann.

EOS

[Rivas]

dude.. all over the place.. even the new firmwares are getting banned.. it doesn't matter.. check different sites.. private trackers.. you'll see that people even with the newest firmware for both hitachi and samsung.

IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT...

it's going to be fixed

[pinguinosupremo]

for you not for me, I'm not the one crying ....

Lies rivas.. you know you were on xblive.. so you had to agree with their bleedin ToS.. and oh yes.. i edited my post up a bit.. you might want to requote..

whoever said I was crying?.. im just really bored now..

[YARDofSTUF]

Ya, you are the expert

If you can find out one you can find out the other, its not like they had to reinvent the wheel to do it.

[Rivas]

Lies rivas.. you know you were on xblive.. so you had to agree with their bleedin ToS.. and oh yes.. i edited my post up a bit.. you might want to requote..

whoever said I was crying?.. im just really bored now..

I as a person didnt sign up for XBL

And you can see the pressure what am I getting here and people wants me to admit "yes I modded my 360"

You seen my gaming score and games ...I have 6 or 7 games and gaming score below 500, ask Jamie or gameplaya or Rosco ...If my 360 is modded my gaming score would be much higher ..and you know it.It's not like I bought 360 yesterday or 3 months ago.

yah sorry about the banana, you should call them and ask them what's wrong.I would.

[Rivas]

so banned yet rivas?

I dont download unreleased games like you do guys, (PAL version's rings a bell?) or entering beta from ......

I have 6-7 games listed in my profile you got there 30+ games and 10 000+ gamer points.
+ my 360 isnt modded

Playing Halo 3 beta, what about you ?

[YeOldeStonecat]

Hello ?????? We are talking about consoles and not PC's.

Don't forget...the XBox is basically a PC. You're on the internet, you have a MAC address, and most likely at least another trackable ID or two.

Majority of modding XBox's is to allow downloaded/pirated games.

Whenever a crackdown occurs...there are a few innocents that unfortunately get caught in the "net"....it happens, can't be avoided. Those innocents can blame the hackers for ruining it.

[Rivas]

Don't forget...the XBox is basically a PC. You're on the internet, you have a MAC address, and most likely at least another trackable ID or two.

Majority of modding XBox's is to allow downloaded/pirated games.

Whenever a crackdown occurs...there are a few innocents that unfortunately get caught in the "net"....it happens, can't be avoided. Those innocents can blame the hackers for ruining it.

I know, I know YOSC, but there are also people and they didnt tamper with their consoles and got ban, yes it happens and it's wrong imo.

[RoscoPColtrane]

Just pay for your games like everyone else and you wont' have to worry about it....

BTW are they just banning MACs on the console or what? they keep saying the console gets banned....

I didn't feel the need to read all 3 pages btw!

[Rivas]

Just pay for your games like everyone else and you wont' have to worry about it....

BTW are they just banning MACs on the console or what? they keep saying the console gets banned....

I didn't feel the need to read all 3 pages btw!

yah no kidding
Serial numbers.

From the reading M$ is getting kick in the butt anyway ..people are buying new consoles and switching them for the banned ones and bringing them back to stores ...Changing case with serial number is 5 min job + they are not even looking at the serial numbers ..


People are banned when they applied the disc jitter after spring update, logged on XBL with original firmware and then updated it to the xtreme one, also people who flashed the bios back to the original after the spring update.

People who logged/signed up into XBL with hacked firmware already on console are not affected and people who flashed/updated their drives before spring update with the disc jitter.

they caught maybe 8000 individuals and 2 millions are laughing at them .....

[Rivas]

>> Here are some details about the Xbox360 LIVE bans I got directly and indirectly from GaryOPA, Commodore4eva (C4E), Iriez and others. Of course don't take any of this info as 100% confirmed, noone knows exactly based on what data MS is banning ... it's just an analysis of what they think is happening and what MS might/can be checking.

C4E thinks MS is probably detecting and banning consoles from LIVE by tracking usage of backups via timing of the challenge response (c/r) on the drive over the last few weeks or months. A modified FW will reply much faster to the the Challenges requests (stored in a table) than an original firmware (seek on drive). They probably do this test more than once and can ban you if you're above a certain average.
FuzzyLogic also found that microsoft is sometimes doing additional checks on discs: PFI/DMI (so images without these sectors (or if using an old FWs without support for PFI/DMI) can probably be detected easily), drive inquiry (reads ascii string from drive), and capacity (reports capacity of disc) are requested. Strange thing here is MS requests 0x8000 bytes for PFI and DMI, while it should normally be 0x0800 bytes. TheSpecialist pointed out that the remaining 0x7800 bytes contains the relocated SS and PFI on burned discs ... which would make it very easy to detect backups for MS. C4E however told us this would not work on TS drives as its cut off to 0800 even if more data is asked, it's unconfirmed how modified HLG FWs drives respond to this atm.
The "read capacity check" will also work as detection on HLG because, unlike the newest TS FWs, it doesn't have true 'stealth media' yet, these drives are reporting back the burned disc based size of PFI instead of the correct PFI.
Apparently there's also an issue with SS (Security Sector) extracted from Hitachi-LG, some necessary data is screwed ... which means that probably only the Toshiba-Samsung / kreon setup has been extracting correct SS.

Another thing they are probably detecting (but probably not using yet to decide to ban or not) and log/flag is if you ever booted your Xbox360 with DVD SATA cable not connected to your Xbox360 (E64). Many people did this to power their drive when they wanted to flash it (power connected to 360, SATA to PC). So it's highly suggested to use an external power to flash next time.
It's also possible MS also bans based on stuff like bad credit card info for your country, running a NTSC machine with euro-address/credit card (or inverse), having out-of-region (arcade) games and demos on your HDD, unofficial 360 HDD, internet downloaded gamesaves etc. There's no clear view on all this yet.
For now, C4E believes Microsoft is not detecting modified FWs or detecting FW changes/updates. Using a special FW they did not detect any debug commands sent to the drive by MS (they went through the dash/kernel updates with the special FW as well and did not detect any debug commands there either). So they think either:
A/ MS is not doing any FW detection right now, and only previously (maybe on request of MS servers while playing on LIVE?), or
B/ MS is banning based only on the timings of the drive, ss/pfi/dmi checks, capacity, drive inquiry and c/r verification.

We also got information C4E is working on an "iXtreme Online" FW for Toshiba-Samsung drives, a Hitachi-LG version and maybe even BenQ version might follow later.
The new FW will have less features than the current Xtreme FWs: no single-layer (DVD5) support, no ripping of games (0800 mode), but more features to safely play from burned discs (emulate the exact speed and timings of the original games) and prevent booting from un-safe discs (without PFI and DMI or bad SS - so discs not passing the 'Stealth Check' (using Xbox Backup Creator(info)(info) for example) are not going to boot on the new firmware), or images that aren't exact dumps of the original.
There's no official ETA (maybe this weekend though for TS drives), and of course no guarantee MS will never ban you based on new checks (that's the risk it takes if you want to be part of the modding community ) The HLG FW will take a bit longer as it'll require true 'Stealth media' etc added.

This new FW will of course be made mostly for new consoles being modded, because even if you're not banned from LIVE yet there's no way to know if MS already has info/logs on your console ID regarding timings or other stuff so even changing to this new firmware in the near future may not stop that console ID from being banned in the next wave of MS bans.
If your console is not banned yet, it's highly suggested you don't boot any burned discs, originals should be ok, even when offline (MS might be storing results of some checks in flash), until the release of the new FW.
If your console is already banned this will of course not help you ... just enjoy the offline playing on that console for now (with some games you could try using 3rd party networks like XLink Kai(info)) and maybe some day a new exploit will allow you to do more with that console.

To end with ... X-Scene's obvious tip of the month: don't buy 2nd hand Xbox360 consoles


source xbox-scene

[YARDofSTUF]

To end with ... X-Scene's obvious tip of the month: don't buy 2nd hand Xbox360 consoles

Thats for damn sure!

[pinguinosupremo]

Yeah I sent that to my modder.. along with tons of other info.. so basically I should be able to go over there and get it updated to the new firmware then call M$ tell them to re-scan my 360 saying that it was an accidental ban and when they do check it should say that it's not modded.. then I got my xbox 360 unbanned.. hooray... hopefully...

[Rivas]

Yeah I sent that to my modder.. along with tons of other info.. so basically I should be able to go over there and get it updated to the new firmware then call M$ tell them to re-scan my 360 saying that it was an accidental ban and when they do check it should say that it's not modded.. then I got my xbox 360 unbanned.. hooray... hopefully...

You know, they are saying your LIVE account is still there but after you got the hammer you dissapeared (it's like I deleted you but I didnt) from my friend list with bunch of other people.
Strange isnt it ?

[pinguinosupremo]

Ooh.. I did that on accident like a few days before I got banned.. My controller was acting stupid again.. It was stuck on up and I was pressing on random things to make it stop and in the process I deleted you.. along with 2 other people.. -.-'.. I even tried unplugging and re-plugging the battery pack but it still did it.. finally gave up and restarted my console then it stopped.. well the other 2 people was my brother and some random kid who was trying to fill up his friends list for no apparent reason.. hah... there's no point for me to keep my brother anyways.. we live in the same house and use the same xbox 360.. as for you.. all you ever did was play gears of war from what I saw.. so there's no point in us keeping each other on the friends list.. I don't even play gears of war.. so yeah.. there's no need to worry there Rivas..

[Rivas]

Ooh.. I did that on accident like a few days before I got banned.. My controller was acting stupid again.. It was stuck on up and I was pressing on random things to make it stop and in the process I deleted you.. along with 2 other people.. -.-'.. I even tried unplugging and re-plugging the battery pack but it still did it.. finally gave up and restarted my console then it stopped.. well the other 2 people was my brother and some random kid who was trying to fill up his friends list for no apparent reason.. hah... there's no point for me to keep my brother anyways.. we live in the same house and use the same xbox 360.. as for you.. all you ever did was play gears of war from what I saw.. so there's no point in us keeping each other on the friends list.. I don't even play gears of war.. so yeah.. there's no need to worry there Rivas..

Yah good point, you was always more single player/achievements oriented person compared to me, so really no point at all ....

[pinguinosupremo]

Single player is definately not my style.. it's multiplayer.. except I just got bored of all my games.. most of my time was spent on the dashboard.. then I figured I'd try PSU again.. downloaded the demo started playing that some more.. and also rivas.. most of the games you see.. are game rentals from gamefly, blockbuster and hollywood video.. I had about 6k before I was even on live.. so in total i've only made about 4k..a small chunk of the other games I actually own.. some games were borrowed from a friend of mines.. -.-'.. i still want his broken xbox 360.. but his older brother wants it.. so I just let it be.. he'll get the thing fixed so he can have an xbox 360 himself as well.. since he bought an elite.. anyways.. so very few of my games are actually downloaded.. only 6 games are downloaded.. now since I never paid for a single one of the games I own.. my brother did.. he let his friend jasper borrow.. otherwise you'd see me playing more games.. I still want THP8 back..anyways.. I just thought I'd clear that up now..

[Rivas]

Single player is definately not my style.. it's multiplayer.. except I just got bored of all my games.. most of my time was spent on the dashboard.. then I figured I'd try PSU again.. downloaded the demo started playing that some more.. and also rivas.. most of the games you see.. are game rentals from gamefly, blockbuster and hollywood video.. I had about 6k before I was even on live.. so in total i've only made about 4k..a small chunk of the other games I actually own.. some games were borrowed from a friend of mines.. -.-'.. i still want his broken xbox 360.. but his older brother wants it.. so I just let it be.. he'll get the thing fixed so he can have an xbox 360 himself as well.. since he bought an elite.. anyways.. so very few of my games are actually downloaded.. only 6 games are downloaded.. now since I never paid for a single one of the games I own.. my brother did.. he let his friend jasper borrow.. otherwise you'd see me playing more games.. I still want THP8 back..anyways.. I just thought I'd clear that up now..

nice story but it doesnt makes sence, for 6 games you flashed your fw ?
Rental places get games at same day as release day ?
Wow I never knew that, thanks for the info.
no matter if you downloaded 1 or 6 or 30 ....it's still piracy ...

[pinguinosupremo]

nice story but it doesnt makes sence, for 6 games you flashed your fw ?
Rental places get games at same day as release day ?
Wow I never knew that, thanks for the info.
no matter if you downloaded 1 or 6 or 30 ....it's still piracy ...

Oh really, you think that doesn't make any sense? You know there's some people out there who have never played 1 mother f*cking back up copy game and they still have a flashed firmware? Did you think of that Erik?

I f*cking hate 90% of the games that have came out so far thus being the reason I really don't have many games and the reason I mainly rent them and actually there's a nice little rental store right around the corner from my house, on the main street that crosses by, they usually have movies and rarely games that aren't out of shelves in major stores in shelves usually 1-2 weeks before depending on when they get it and actually most of the rental places around here do get them on release date, well they always get them earlier but they don't put it on shelves until they're supposed to, just like the rest of the major stores.

As for the rest of the games you'd see in my profile, those were rentals either that or my brother bought them.

The only game I've gotten before release date was Spider Man 3, which in fact, I didn't download, my brother did, I hate Spider Man, Always did even when I was a little kid I hated him, Hated his cartoon, comics, games, movies and whatever may involve him, they were all f*cking lame.

Now here's the thing you need to understand, I've only had my Xbox 360 with flashed firmware for 4 months 1 week and I've had an Xbox 360 for a little less than 2 years now, so basically that's a large difference between when I had it modded and when I haven't had it modded and that's another reason why I have so little games.

Also you know what doesn't make any sense? Is that you Erik, said that you as a person didn't agree to the ToS for Xbox Live, but yet you signed up anyways and started using it so therefore you had to agree to it even unwillingly, so you as a person, Agreed to M$'s ToS for Xbox Live unwillingly, as a person, there's no other way you can agree to them.

Frankly, I've thought about this a lot before actually posting this, I know the consequences and well.. Truly, I accepted that and I honestly don't care what happens from this post.. Although.. I do plan on leaving soon as there's no point for me to be on here really.. I overstayed my welcome long ago I'm sure.. Seeing as no matter what I do.. I can't get my account deleted.. so.. I guess this is goodbye from me.

At least I said what I had to say, at least I didn't lie to keep the SG Police off my ass.

ycariP llits s'ti ,001 ro yek notron 1 etareneg uoy fi rettam t'nseod tI ,kirE seY.

Later days.

Philip if you're reading this, check your inbox, assuming you didn't check that first.

[Jamie_R]

I guess this is goodbye from me.

well ... bye.

[YARDofSTUF]

What the hell I spent 3 pages instigating this and it didnt even go in the right direction. BAH!

[Rivas]

Oh really, you think that doesn't make any sense? You know there's some people out there who have never played 1 mother f*cking back up copy game and they still have a flashed firmware? Did you think of that Erik?

I f*cking hate 90% of the games that have came out so far thus being the reason I really don't have many games and the reason I mainly rent them and actually there's a nice little rental store right around the corner from my house, on the main street that crosses by, they usually have movies and rarely games that aren't out of shelves in major stores in shelves usually 1-2 weeks before depending on when they get it and actually most of the rental places around here do get them on release date, well they always get them earlier but they don't put it on shelves until they're supposed to, just like the rest of the major stores.

As for the rest of the games you'd see in my profile, those were rentals either that or my brother bought them.

The only game I've gotten before release date was Spider Man 3, which in fact, I didn't download, my brother did, I hate Spider Man, Always did even when I was a little kid I hated him, Hated his cartoon, comics, games, movies and whatever may involve him, they were all f*cking lame.

Now here's the thing you need to understand, I've only had my Xbox 360 with flashed firmware for 4 months 1 week and I've had an Xbox 360 for a little less than 2 years now, so basically that's a large difference between when I had it modded and when I haven't had it modded and that's another reason why I have so little games.

Also you know what doesn't make any sense? Is that you Erik, said that you as a person didn't agree to the ToS for Xbox Live, but yet you signed up anyways and started using it so therefore you had to agree to it even unwillingly, so you as a person, Agreed to M$'s ToS for Xbox Live unwillingly, as a person, there's no other way you can agree to them.

Frankly, I've thought about this a lot before actually posting this, I know the consequences and well.. Truly, I accepted that and I honestly don't care what happens from this post.. Although.. I do plan on leaving soon as there's no point for me to be on here really.. I overstayed my welcome long ago I'm sure.. Seeing as no matter what I do.. I can't get my account deleted.. so.. I guess this is goodbye from me.

At least I said what I had to say, at least I didn't lie to keep the SG Police off my ass.

ycariP llits s'ti ,001 ro yek notron 1 etareneg uoy fi rettam t'nseod tI ,kirE seY.

Later days.

Philip if you're reading this, check your inbox, assuming you didn't check that first.

Reading your post is very disturbing.

I didnt sign up for XBL, I got XBL for life from kit tronics.I can do whatever I want with my gamertag but I cant change the address, and it's not even signed up under name.
It was a gift.

I'm not aware of

there's some people out there who have never played 1 mother f*cking back up copy game and they still have a flashed firmware

but seems like you are more informed as always.

You are downloading games what were stolen from private servers and spread out to bt/p2p, they doesnt belong to you, they are not for public, and whoever downloading them is a retard.

You dont need to tell me how long you had your 360, frankly I dont care, you played pirated games thats what got you banned and even with new firmware you are doomed.You think MS is stupid ?

Oh and one last thing, stop calling me Erik, it's only for friends just so you know.

and yeah

Originally Posted by pinguinosupremo
I guess this is goodbye from me.

well ... bye.

[morbidpete]

i was hit with the ban hammer my own fault and i accept my punishment. time for a new 360

[Rivas]

i was hit with the ban hammer my own fault and i accept my punishment. time for a new 360

I know
NEVER ever sign up for XBL without modded fw.What I mean is, MS stores somehow your data when you sign up first time and after you flash it it's changed.

Read pm.