wee96 wrote:Faith in that sense yes, because tangible evidence was given and proven. Faith in the religious sense HAS no tangible evidence, its just simply based on words from several ancient storywriters, yes? Theres a big difference between the two. You guys have no clue how much of the ancient text could have been totally written out of someones imagination using their present day themes.
I've said it once before but, faith by definition is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. You can't have faith and proof at the same time.
Ghosthunter wrote:they dont mention them becuase the people who wrote the bible did not know about it.....still does not fit accroding to the 7 days God created everything.
I can answer the real reason why..Genesis was a myth it never really happened that way.
Wrong.
The Bible does not contradict an old earth. Biblical time is measured from man's FALL, not his creation.....there is absolutely no knowing how long Adam and Eve were in the garden before the fall. This is the time I personally believe that dinosaurs existed.
staceyb wrote:Wrong.
The Bible does not contradict an old earth. Biblical time is measured from man's FALL, not his creation.....there is absolutely no knowing how long Adam and Eve were in the garden before the fall. This is the time I personally believe that dinosaurs existed.
petty convenient if you ask me
then again if you beleive the story of Adam & Eve to be literal then I guess you must beleive in incest...then I thought incest is wrong?
you have to accept him as the lord Jesus Christ, you have to want him to fill your life, save you from sin and forgive you of your sins, you have to tell him that you believe in him, you have to admit it to him and humble yourself to him
Ghosthunter wrote:of course when you say all men..bible does not include women? The bible is extremely chauvinsitic...What kind of God believes that women is inferior to man? I guess the same god that creates homosexuals and then condems them to Hell..Yeah what a God he is.,..not a God I could love or want to be in heaven with...
ok, God did not create homosexuals...God created man, told him to go forth and multply...he did, God also gave man free-will...you can do the rest of the math...
Those quotes from the biblical text are an example of how your using them to try to explain something that wasnt explained.
what?
The main difference is science is tangiable, faith is not. Our reality as we know it. Sure you can say our reality might not be real, but again you dont know that, you only know our reality.
and you answered your own statement...YOUR faith may not be tangiable...how do you know mine or anyone elses isnt? you dont...
then again if you beleive the story of Adam & Eve to be literal then I guess you must beleive in incest...then I thought incest is wrong?
how is it incest?
Every normal man must be tempted at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. I often wonder if the voices in my head ever get frustrated because I'm just too damn lazy to climb that clock tower.
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My father just happened to call me and I asked him about this very thread. He as a Catholic said he believes that man and man can be united but not under the Catholic church. He did also say however that man and man can be united as one. The old bastard has a sense of knowing what is right. That's how I was raised.
sitosterol wrote:Outside of law, it's still live and let live IMO.
Every normal man must be tempted at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. I often wonder if the voices in my head ever get frustrated because I'm just too damn lazy to climb that clock tower.
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Ghosthunter wrote:I know that bible does not believe in science...why is that? Becuase science did not exist 2,000 years ago when a bunch of people decided to write the bible.
Early Science = Magic according to most/some anthropologists....but then again Anthropologists don't exactly get alone with Religions according some Religious people.
"There is a big difference between breaking the law and having a law designed to break you. We will not be broken." -- Jinny Simms
"On the street everything is legal! I don't believe in an eye for an eye, I believe in 2 eyes for an eye." -- Bas Rutten
You always have at least one guy who doesn't know what hes talking about
And then you get arguements instead of discussions
And then they go on for like 10+ pages....
If you truly want to know what goes one, its not likely you'll find it here.
But me being religious myself, laughs at some of these posts :]
Although you could accuse me of "judging,' who said judging wasn't a sin only until it comes through your brain and out of your mouth :]
Plus talking about this stuff is just plain misleading....
Because the term "christian" is thrown around too loosely.
There are different kinds of christians, so you can't really address "christians" in general as most people do.
mattkim wrote: so you can't really address "christians" in general as most people do.
Good point.
but you also can't address non-believers in the same way. Some of these non-believers believe in God or gods just not Christianity. *putting a side the concept of there is only 1 true religion*
I'm just speaking out of mine and others point of views whether it is wrong or right.
"There is a big difference between breaking the law and having a law designed to break you. We will not be broken." -- Jinny Simms
"On the street everything is legal! I don't believe in an eye for an eye, I believe in 2 eyes for an eye." -- Bas Rutten
mattkim wrote:I hate these religous related posts...
You always have at least one guy who doesn't know what hes talking about
And then you get arguements instead of discussions
And then they go on for like 10+ pages....
If you truly want to know what goes one, its not likely you'll find it here.
But me being religious myself, laughs at some of these posts :]
Although you could accuse me of "judging,' who said judging wasn't a sin only until it comes through your brain and out of your mouth :]
Plus talking about this stuff is just plain misleading....
Because the term "christian" is thrown around too loosely.
There are different kinds of christians, so you can't really address "christians" in general as most people do.
It's the never ending story, but I somehow can't resist debating the topic. To come up with an answer indefinately would be awesome, but each and every time I enter to discuss it, I know it will never happen, but I'm still posting in it all the same.
God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.
yes, that's the one
my bad, didn't research it before I posted (hence the...paraphrasing, I much prefer the original version), and I left the source completely out of my earlier post (been busy and forgot the quotes).
still folding away, haven't been on as much lately
You and I agree on this, our job is to bring people to Christ, that's what every saved Christian wants to do.
But making a law and enforcing it saying gay people can't get married you are instantly turning people off from hearing of the Lord. Let God judge them for getting married, it isn't our place as Christians to say to the non-believer that you can't do that. Ultimately the choice is theirs, remember free will?
As believers though, as Christians who have accepted Christ into their life that should very much be the 'law'. But really you don't have to make that a law because we know it isn't something to do so we wouldn't do it anyway.
What we can do as Christians is to show by action, Love the Person, Hate the Sin.
Again I bring up Jesus says nothing about homosexuality in the Bible, yes, God hates it, in the old testament, that's for sure, but Jesus never mentions it in the new testament, only Paul does in his letters, and we live in a new testament world.
Here is another issue, Divorce. It clearly states in the bible that divorce is wrong.
Why aren't Christians more upset about Divorce going on in this country?
Why are we so up in arms about Homosexuality rights then we are about Divorce?
Divorce has been a bigger problem in this country than Homosexuals getting married has.
People are not turned off because of laws. They are turned off becaus eof hard hearts. The Laws that the lord gave were for all, not just the saved. If we do not require His mopral laws for society then we deny Him. It is a responsibility we have. This friend of yours is not a freind of God.
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. http://www.ourchurch.com/view/?pageID=113036
Ghosthunter wrote:It is my choice based upon there are way too many inaccuracies..and most of it was myths based upon ancient pagan cultures...There was a form of Jesus in several other ancient cultures..that was way before his time..it is obvious the bible was written by man and is not the word of God. That is why I dont beleive in it.
Exactly GH and that was what I wanted to prove all along. That is what your choice not to believe it and not just because man wrote it.
mattkim wrote:I hate these religous related posts...
You always have at least one guy who doesn't know what hes talking about
And then you get arguements instead of discussions
And then they go on for like 10+ pages....
Who are you to say anyone knows what their talking about? YOU dont have the answers, you believe you do but thats all you have is belief.
Roody wrote:Exactly GH and that was what I wanted to prove all along. That is what your choice not to believe it and not just because man wrote it.
I have no idea what your point is it makes no sense...it sounds like you are trying to twist everything I say..between how do we know what gravity is and what a pen is...you surely got me confusd
Brent wrote:
in my threads defense it started off as a thread about homosexual marriage, heh
that was the main topic i wanted to explore
it is definitely NOT your bad, it is nobodys bad
everyone here has remained civil and I appreciate that
good discusssion everyone!
A) You planted this seed knowing it would morph into what it has,
and
B) It has not remained civil and without flames and other insults, else we'd not have as many posts edited and/or deleted as we have, and no complaints in our inbox.
It always has to turn into "One side insults the other" doesn't it?
Can there ever be "Respect others beliefs"?
MORNING WOOD Lumber Company
Guinness for Strength!!!
Ghosthunter wrote:...then again if you beleive the story of Adam & Eve to be literal then I guess you must beleive in incest...then I thought incest is wrong?
That one is weak GH. Life started some where and who is to say that there were physical & genetic complications "In the beginning?" Think about it, diseases as we know them didn't exist yet. There was still a huge physical purity. Some men lived hundreds of years. As man decided to continue in disobediance, sin ruled their lives and so did every type of disease, ailment, heartache and so on. What greater gift than free will? YOU decide. Now that is a God that truly loves his children and gives them a Godliness feature to do what they will.
bigmo66 wrote:That one is weak GH. Life started some where and who is to say that there were physical & genetic complications "In the beginning?" Think about it, diseases as we know them didn't exist yet. There was still a huge physical purity. Some men lived hundreds of years. As man decided to continue in disobediance, sin ruled their lives and so did every type of disease, ailment, heartache and so on. What greater gift than free will? YOU decide. Now that is a God that truly loves his children and gives them a Godliness feature to do what they will.
umm we have no proof that man lived hundreds of years..only by what the bible says...every skeleton that we have ever uneartherd or fossil shows otherwise
On the other hand you saying people who don't live in sin have good disease free lives? That is bull...what happens to children who have no choice in their actions and get killed or abused by some sicko? Or the children who have cancer and are dieing? Ever walk through a pediatric oncology ward? It is one of the worst saddest things to go through. What did they do to deserve that treatment? What kind of God allows that to happen?
Ghosthunter wrote:umm we have no proof that man lived hundreds of years..only by what the bible says...every skeleton that we have ever uneartherd or fossil shows otherwise
On the other hand you saying people who don't live in sin have good disease free lives? That is bull...what happens to children who have no choice in their actions and get killed or abused by some sicko? Or the children who have cancer and are dieing? Ever walk through a pediatric oncology ward? It is one of the worst saddest things to go through. What did they do to deserve that treatment? What kind of God allows that to happen?
Why do you only use what you want for a re-buttal? I'm not talking about today as far as disease goes, didn't you read? I am talking about the first humans. It makes perfect sense to think that the human body was much healthier in the beginning. Since you are not a believer, I guess I can't expect you to understand. Non-believers always use, "What about little kids getting hurt, what kind of God would allow that?" Who are you to judge a God that you don't believe in? Who is to say that this life is nothing more than "stepping stone" into the next. Gotta go, be back.....
bigmo66 wrote:Why do you only use what you want for a re-buttal? I'm not talking about today as far as disease goes, didn't you read? I am talking about the first humans. It makes perfect sense to think that the human body was much healthier in the beginning. Since you are not a believer, I guess I can't expect you to understand. Non-believers always use, "What about little kids getting hurt, what kind of God would allow that?" Who are you to judge a God that you don't believe in? Who is to say that this life is nothing more than "stepping stone" into the next. Gotta go, be back.....
You mean I cannot judge the bible's God and its words becuase I dont believe in it? But religious christians can judge homosexuals and if they want to get married even though they dont believe in it?
Ghosthunter wrote:I have no idea what your point is it makes no sense...it sounds like you are trying to twist everything I say..between how do we know what gravity is and what a pen is...you surely got me confusd
My point is that you say you dont believe the Bible (or along those lines) because it was written by man. Well everything we learn whether it be by voice or by reading is learned from man. Man had to tell us that Science existed or that Religion existed.
That's why I was trying to get you to say you didnt believe in the Bible because you choose not too, and not because it was written by man and I finally got you to say that.
As for twisting stuff you know I dont do that to people so that was never my intent.
Roody wrote:My point is that you say you dont believe the Bible (or along those lines) because it was written by man. Well everything we learn whether it be by voice or by reading is learned from man. Man had to tell us that Science existed or that Religion existed.
That's why I was trying to get you to say you didnt believe in the Bible because you choose not too, and not because it was written by man and I finally got you to say that.
As for twisting stuff you know I dont do that to people so that was never my intent.
So you are agreeing it was written by men? If it was how is it the word of God? That is my point.
If it was truly written by God, there would be no mistakes, no inconsitencies,
That is why i don't believe in the bible as literalists do. I am not sure how much clearer I can get.
Ghosthunter wrote:So you are agreeing it was written by men? If it was how is it the word of God? That is my point.
If it was truly written by God, there would be no mistakes, no inconsitencies,
That is why i don't believe in the bible as literalists do. I am not sure how much clearer I can get.
Of course it was written by man GH. No one here that I have seen has said otherwise. The Bible is transcribed by man, but is inspired by God himself and at points in it both God and Jesus have direct communication within it.
You never once heard me personally suggest otherwise. All this said my point was that your decision was based on choice, and not just because man wrote it because if it had to do with man writing it then theoretically you couldnt believe in anything that man either said or wrote.
