Israel Attacks Syria

Zilog B · Post by **Zilog B** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:05 pm

Originally posted by Patrick K
Your were an Army recruiter, weren't you? lol

I went into the Army straight out of high school. I told the MEPPS guy, "give me something where i'll never have to set behind another desk". He hooked me up for sure LOL.

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:21 am

Originally posted by chilt
UOD, do some research on the AIPAC (American Israeli Political Action Committee) before you judge KMAX's opinion. I am no Conspiracy Theorist but this organization scares the hell out of alot of Politicians trying to get re-elected, and they have ended the careers of quite a few people that dared say or do anything against Israel or Jews.

Also , consider what Jews have done to the innocent Palestinians, basically bull-dozing their homes to make room for more Jewish settlements. And where do they get the money to afford this and fund the elite army that they have, which some experts believe has surpassed our own Army's technology? It all comes from us. There is a reason why Israel is the most hated nation in the world, and why we were the only nation to stand up for Israel at the recent UN resolution vote to eliminate Arafat.

Just to make things clear, I do not condone terrorism or believe in their end goal. A nation has a right to defend itself against enemies, foreign and domestic, but Israel's sword is too broad and something should be done to end their tyranny.

We have far greater threats from other lobbyists. There have been quite a few Americans elected and broadcasting with no small amount of antipathy for Jews.

The bulldozing, which I concur is awful, is not to create settlements. It is to punish. Unlike the bombs going off in civilian locations, they do come with a warning. Tyranny? Do sincerely believe that Israel is "most hated" solely for its military or its treatment of Palestinians? I agree that the situation requires amerioration and the Palestinian should have a homeland, but Israel is responding to deadly force in kind to foreign backed Palestinian militants. Can you think of anywhere else in the world where ethnics have been treated far far worse?

Believe it or not, I had a huge response for this thread, but I felt it redundant and I really did not wish to argue all the points.

shant,
david

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:30 am

I had a huge response for this thread, but I felt it redundant and I really did not wish to argue all the points.

We deserve to hear ALL sides.....especially your point of view.

in2deep · Post by **in2deep** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:01 am

There is no point trying to post balanced and reasonable replies to threads like this because they suggest things that many people do not want hear. Reasoned debate goes out of the window and the flames start flying.

Acheives nothing.

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:23 am

Originally posted by in2deep
There is no point trying to post balanced and reasonable replies to threads like this because they suggest things that many people do not want hear. Reasoned debate goes out of the window and the flames start flying.

Acheives nothing.

It has been debated on this site more than once. The history is ugly. It does not speak well of many people. So yes, flames can fly.

A rock best left unturned.

shant,
david

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:22 am

So I guess we'll just leave it up to the imaginations of the uninformed. Maybe apathy is a cure...

in2deep · Post by **in2deep** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:35 am

There is no reason to be uniformed. Search the web. What you will need to do however, is learn to read what happened/is happening. Picking the facts out of the billions of lines of propaganda is not easy.

Start perhaps, with how the modern day state if Israel came into being.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:48 am

Originally posted by nepenthe
We have far greater threats from other lobbyists. There have been quite a few Americans elected and broadcasting with no small amount of antipathy for Jews.

The bulldozing, which I concur is awful, is not to create settlements. It is to punish. Unlike the bombs going off in civilian locations, they do come with a warning. Tyranny? Do sincerely believe that Israel is "most hated" solely for its military or its treatment of Palestinians? I agree that the situation requires amerioration and the Palestinian should have a homeland, but Israel is responding to deadly force in kind to foreign backed Palestinian militants. Can you think of anywhere else in the world where ethnics have been treated far far worse?

Believe it or not, I had a huge response for this thread, but I felt it redundant and I really did not wish to argue all the points.

shant,
david

I totallay agree with what you said.

While the bulldzoing might be awful, there is still no exucse for terrorism to kill innocent people.

Of the origianl issue, Syria is known to harbor and sponsor terrorism, and I really find it funny how Syria is now trying to take this to the U.N.

They should be laughed at.

chilt · Post by **chilt** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 11:56 am

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely against the terrorism that goes on in the middle east, both the Palestinian terrorism and the Israeli terrorism. But to look at the State of Israel as a victim is insane!

The innocent Jews and Arabs trying to live in Israel and surrounding areas while all this is going on are the real victims. The government of Israel cares about nothing but themselves and funneling more and more money from the U.S. to support their own agenda. Palestinian leaders are to blame as well only they do not have control over THE World's superpower and the funding that goes along with that.

This entire subject is immposible to cover in one post and since tone and affliction can not be represented properly it is very easy to misunderstand what another is saying. As I did with my initial post commenting on what OUD said.

Bouncer · Post by **Bouncer** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:52 pm

Umm.. last time I checked Israel didn't have control of the US Gov't.

Pretty sure that remains the case since there aren't any American carriers off the coast of Israel engaging targets as directed by the Israelis.

Do they have influence/ Yes. Does the US have influence with them? Yes.

I find it interesting that critics in both countries and elsewhere think one is controlling the other.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:11 pm

Originally posted by in2deep
There is no reason to be uniformed. Search the web. What you will need to do however, is learn to read what happened/is happening. Picking the facts out of the billions of lines of propaganda is not easy.

Start perhaps, with how the modern day state if Israel came into being.

I think you misunderstood my post...I was being sarcastic and I was attempting to get nepenthe to post because he's so well versed in this particular subject. I understand that it may seem repetitive to him and to some of the others but we get new faces here at SG all the time. They should be afforded the same knowledge as the rest of us old timers.

So basically, I would enjoy seeing nepenthe post for the benefit of those who are uninformed. I am not one of the uninformed.

chilt · Post by **chilt** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:25 pm

Originally posted by Bouncer
Umm.. last time I checked Israel didn't have control of the US Gov't.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

-- Senator Fullbright, Chair of Senate Foreign Relations Committee: 10/07/1973 on CBS' "Face the Nation".

"I am aware how almost impossible it is in this country to carry out a foreign policy [in the Middle East] not approved by the Jews..... terrific control the Jews have over the news media and the barrage the Jews have built up on congressmen .... I am very much concerned over the fact that the Jewish influence here is completely dominating the scene and making it almost impossible to get congress to do anything they don't approve of. The Israeli embassy is practically dictating to the congress through influential Jewish people in the country"

"On October 3, 2001, I.A.P. News reported that according to Israel Radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yisrael an acrimonious argument erupted during the Israeli cabinet weekly session last week between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his foreign Minister Shimon Peres. Peres warned Sharon that refusing to heed incessant American requests for a cease-fire with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and "turn the US against us. "Sharon reportedly yelled at Peres, saying "don't worry about American pressure, we the Jewish people control America."

These statement were made in 1973 and 2001 and there are many others these days that echo the same message. It's not like this is a "new arguement". Whatever Israel whats us to do we do. There are people on the very far right, myself NOT included, that believe the entire war in Iraq is going on because of Israeli pressure on this administration. Do some research on:

- USS Liberty and that horrific cover up
- Jonathan Pollard and how Sharon STILL says he is innocent and should be released.

I know this is completely off the original topic but these few events show the control that Israel has over us. And it is truely ashame that many people only see on side to this issue.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:40 pm

1973? Your views are based on a story that's 30 years old?

in2deep · Post by **in2deep** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:27 pm

>>>
I was attempting to get nepenthe to post because he's so well versed in this particular subject.
<<<

He may well be, however, having someone present their view on a flammable topic such as this will invariably result in someone with equal and oppsite views taking the post apart, and then his, and then it gets acrimonious and nasty.

Believe me, we've had this thread/subject pop up about once a month on the boards I moderate, and invariable after a page or two it dissolves into great long rambling posts of accusations, defenses and counter accusations and so on until the mods like me have to step in and clear up.

I think if you wish to make a specific point to a specific person on a matter like this, it should go to PM's.

chilt · Post by **chilt** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:31 pm

Originally posted by downhill
1973? Your views are based on a story that's 30 years old?

I could find more recent examples if you like. This is what I came up with off the cuff.

My views are based in unbiased information. How about the public flogging of Congressman Moran by several Jewish organizations for a statement regarding the power of Israel.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:53 pm

Your positive your views are unbiased?

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:27 pm

Originally posted by in2deep
>>>
I was attempting to get nepenthe to post because he's so well versed in this particular subject.
<<<

He may well be, however, having someone present their view on a flammable topic such as this will invariably result in someone with equal and oppsite views taking the post apart, and then his, and then it gets acrimonious and nasty.

Believe me, we've had this thread/subject pop up about once a month on the boards I moderate, and invariable after a page or two it dissolves into great long rambling posts of accusations, defenses and counter accusations and so on until the mods like me have to step in and clear up.

I think if you wish to make a specific point to a specific person on a matter like this, it should go to PM's.

I did not start this thread, nor did I hijack it. We are blessed with an excellent cross section of people on this site. Many here also spend time on other forums, so they are aware of how ugly certain topics can get. PMing does not always make it easier.
I did a bit of reseach on specific types of forum. One variety in particular was White Pride/ National Socialist. Invariably a few of the members would poke their heads into mainstream site, armed with the well honed rhetoric provided by their gurus. When researched, you might find that they refer to sites run by friends of the WP/NS. The internet is replete with apocryphal information, it so easy to BS.
There is a natural tendancy to believe "alternative" sources have validity and are unbiased. This usually is quite the opposite.

shant,
david

in2deep · Post by **in2deep** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:23 am

>>> few of the members would poke their heads into mainstream site,

That is not my experience. I am not talking about strangers coming in, I am talking about the regular members.

The forums I moderate, (computer programming forums), are vastly more international than this one which seems to me to be 90% North American.

You don't need specialist racist extremists to stir up heated and nasty debates on topics like the Middle East and so forth. You just need a more international group of regular members, (i.e. been members for a year or more with post counts in the 1,000's).

BTW, I am only guessing that the WP/NS sites you refer too are what I referred to above as "specialist racist extremists", I have no experience of either organisation. I lived in the UK for a long period and there were groups like the National Front and the British National Party which seemed to fill those roles.

chilt · Post by **chilt** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:04 am

Originally posted by downhill
Your positive your views are unbiased?

Are you positive your views are NOT biased?

I read books like "Bias : A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News" by Bernard Goldberg
and "Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism" by Ann Coulter, both books providing undisputible facts of a "biased" media, along with "Big Lies: The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How It Distorts the Truth" by Joe Conason and I come to my own conclusions.

Downhill we could argue about this subject all day, you have your views and I mine. Lets agree to disagree if that is the case.

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:19 am

Originally posted by chilt
Are you positive your views are NOT biased?

I read books like "Bias : A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News" by Bernard Goldberg
and "Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism" by Ann Coulter, both books providing undisputible facts of a "biased" media, along with "Big Lies: The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How It Distorts the Truth" by Joe Conason and I come to my own conclusions.

Downhill we could argue about this subject all day, you have your views and I mine. Lets agree to disagree if that is the case.

You are the one who claimed to have unbiased information.

Yes, let us agree to disagree...

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:26 am

Originally posted by chilt
Are you positive your views are NOT biased?

I read books like "Bias : A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News" by Bernard Goldberg
and "Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism" by Ann Coulter, both books providing undisputible facts of a "biased" media, along with "Big Lies: The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How It Distorts the Truth" by Joe Conason and I come to my own conclusions.

Downhill we could argue about this subject all day, you have your views and I mine. Lets agree to disagree if that is the case.

I have read those books also....And more....I'm pleased to see your at least adding Conason to the Coutler mix......

My question was more retorical than an attack. I see a lot of race/religion bashing where I live. I'm never taken a backseat to standing up and calling it for what I see it as is all....I've a lot of friends who believe somewhat as I, but just won't take a stand..

As to them books....there isn't a lot on Isreal or the Jews persecutions. No?

chilt · Post by **chilt** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:53 am

Originally posted by downhill
As to them books....there isn't a lot on Isreal or the Jews persecutions. No?

No , more regarding the media slant on specific topics.

I didn't want to start siting numerous examples of Israeli atrocities because this issue is something you and I could argue all day, going back and forth with examples.

However this topic originated from Israeli attacks on a Syrian terroist training camp which is now being reported to be NOT a terroist camp but a civilian site with civilian casulties.

I don't want you to think I am an anti-semite jewbasher, like I said before I have no problem with Jewish people , I have Jewish friends and co-workers, the only real difference is our religous beliefs.

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:36 pm

Originally posted by in2deep
>>> few of the members would poke their heads into mainstream site,

That is not my experience. I am not talking about strangers coming in, I am talking about the regular members.

The forums I moderate, (computer programming forums), are vastly more international than this one which seems to me to be 90% North American.

You don't need specialist racist extremists to stir up heated and nasty debates on topics like the Middle East and so forth. You just need a more international group of regular members, (i.e. been members for a year or more with post counts in the 1,000's).

BTW, I am only guessing that the WP/NS sites you refer too are what I referred to above as "specialist racist extremists", I have no experience of either organisation. I lived in the UK for a long period and there were groups like the National Front and the British National Party which seemed to fill those roles.

We seem to have divergent experiences. I have lurked and participated in over 40 different forums in the past 3.5 years. Agreed that not all folks are trolls or racists to have anitpathy toward Israel, however their are certain key phrases that can be traced directly to racist sites.

As I said before, this forum has seen its share of Middle East, political and religious threads. I avoided going into details out of redundancy.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:11 pm

i am totally lost in this thread now

I dont get what the debate is? about what happened in syria or about debating isreal in a forum?

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:45 pm

Originally posted by The_Lurker
Arnold isn't Jewish . but then again, he's not a politician......yet.

A neo womanizer nazi terminator is going to be govner of cali ! woot!

he'll keep and eye on those sneaky jewish "movie" types in hollyweird, ummHmm!

How did I miss this gem?....

ghost · Post by **ghost** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:51 pm

LOL, last I read nepenthe was ducking out of this discussion, what was that, page two?

I knew you couldn't stay away.

[ADDED]: Correction, page three.

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:54 pm

Originally posted by ghost
LOL, last I read nepenthe was ducking out of this discussion, what was that, page two? I knew you couldn't stay away.

[ADDED]: Correction, page three.

It is the trainwreck I can't take your eyes off of.....

BUSTED!

ghost · Post by **ghost** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:57 pm

Originally posted by nepenthe
It is the trainwreck I can't take your eyes off of.....

BUSTED!

LOL, I understand completely.

chimdogger · Post by **chimdogger** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:06 pm

I hate to say it, but the middle east needs a big war to satify their blood thirst. Hope we can stay out of it....

Mehmet · Post by **Mehmet** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:36 pm

Originally posted by Roody
lol Mehmet, In case you didn't know man and based on your little shot at the current Prez, Im wondering if you did, but our relationship with Israel has spanned back much further then this current President.

Have you read the news man? If a group claims responsibility for it, how exactly is it alleged?

Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the suicide bombing Saturday at a popular restaurant owned by Jews and Arabs in Haifa that also wounded more than 50 people.

WTF are you talking about.

i was talking about the alleged "terrorists training ground"

Are you guys freakin blind? WE STILL HAVE NO WOMD, NO SADDAM, NO OSAMA.

And yet we are gearing up to go in to syria and iran just like that?

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:48 pm

Originally posted by Mehmet
WTF are you talking about.

i was talking about the alleged "terrorists training ground"

Are you guys freakin blind? WE STILL HAVE NO WOMD, NO SADDAM, NO OSAMA.

And yet we are gearing up to go in to syria and iran just like that?

It dont matter if we have them or not...they are no longer in power is what matters

If you think it is so easy to get them why not join the military and try to find him?

Our military is doing the best job anyone out there in the entire world can do while trying to minimize loss of innocent lives best they can do.

Mehmet · Post by **Mehmet** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:03 pm

Originally posted by Ghosthunter
It dont matter if we have them or not...they are no longer in power is what matters

Yeah, you're right, we will probably get somebody like the Shah over there right?

This war was started because of the WOMD that we thought was there, and we still cant find it.

The troops i dont blame anything for, they are just doing their jobs.

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:22 pm

Originally posted by Mehmet
Yeah, you're right, we will probably get somebody like the Shah over there right?

This war was started because of the WOMD that we thought was there, and we still cant find it.

The troops i dont blame anything for, they are just doing their jobs.

lets all watch and learn. read this thread. here--->http://www.fedex.com/cgi-bin/tracking?a ... 7394019918

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:44 pm

Originally posted by Mehmet
Yeah, you're right, we will probably get somebody like the Shah over there right?

This war was started because of the WOMD that we thought was there, and we still cant find it.

The troops i dont blame anything for, they are just doing their jobs.

Even if they dont find WOMD, it dont matter because Saddam Houssein and his evil regime is gone and that is more important.

chilt · Post by **chilt** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:10 am

Originally posted by Mehmet
This war was started because of the WOMD that we thought was there, and we still cant find it.

Actually this war was started because of the weapons programs Iraq has that could eventually lead to weapons of mass destruction. We have already found proof of those programs and proof of chemical and biological weapons.

Do you honestly think we are going to find smoking nuclear silos ready to launch missles? There are weapons that could fit into a shoebox that could kill the inhabitats of D.C.

Lets see, if I were a shoebox trying to hid in Iraq where would I be.........

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:13 am

btw just for the record we have found evidence here:

Kay has said he's "amazed" at news reports claiming he found nothing when he found illegal missile, chemical- and biological-warfare programs, even a vial of lethal botulinum toxin that could quickly have been made into weapons.

taken from this article:

http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/7687.htm