Are Facebook users that stupid?

Easto · Post by **Easto** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:06 am

How naive do you have to be to think that FB isn't selling your information? All this stuff in the news lately with everyone acting so shocked just cracks me up. Then I see Sheryl Sandberg being interviewed and she answers one of the questions regarding revenue... "we're just like the stations on the TV and Radio, that's how we generate revenue". Yeah, but the TV and Radio don't ask for my information and they don't sell it to someone else.

Don't worry, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I just think anyone who uses the internet and thinks they are the only ones privy to that information needs to wake up.

Post by **Philip** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:25 pm

You are right that personal privacy is hard to achieve online and in this digital age. It is not just the internet though.

Easto wrote:Yeah, but the TV and Radio don't ask for my information and they don't sell it to someone else.

Actually, Cable TV companies have pretty good idea what you are watching and when, and they can link it personally to you. They can (and do) sell that info as well, theoretically only "aggregate" information.

Here is what Comcast Xfinity discloses it collects, for example (source: https://www.xfinity.com/Corporate/Custo ... merPrivacy )

Your account number;
billing, payment, and deposit history;
maintenance information;
the types of Services to which you subscribe;
the device identifiers and network addresses of equipment used with your account;
voice commands;
video and audio recordings;
records indicating the number and types of devices connected to our network;
technical information about your Service-related devices, including customization settings and preferences;
network traffic data;
information about your use of the Services and their features, including video activity data, as well as Internet or online information such as web addresses and other activity data in order to render Internet service; and
additional information about the Service options you have chosen.

When you use the Services, our cable system automatically generates, transmits, and collects much of this information as part of providing the Services to you. For example, we receive information about the use of set-top boxes, remote controls, program guides, video players, applications, and other devices and software connected to our cable system (“video activity data&#8221 . The video activity data includes, for example, which channels, programs, and advertisements are viewed and for how long. It may also include information about navigation through program guides and applications, and use of devices like remote controls and tablets. If you select various features of our equipment, such as voice commands or search, we also will collect and process the data needed to fulfill your requests.

When you combine this info with Location info, information about you they obtain from third-parties, etc. they can get a pretty good picture of who you are, they can target advertising to you and resell some of your info.

The question then becomes how all this personal information they have on you is disclosed to third parties, and used? Do they only disclose non-personally-identifiable info?

Easto · Post by **Easto** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:16 pm

No cable TV at the Easto home. The closest we get is Netflix. I do know they know what I watch, but I really don't care.

Post by **Philip** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:05 pm

I cut the wire as well.. I was just making an observation that everyone is competing for gathering your personal data, it being FANG (Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google) or service providers. They need it for their big data/machine learning/AI algorithms to spoon feed us relevant information/ads, analyze it, or, simply sell it as in that latest Facebook fiasco. Naturally in the process privacy gets stomped over to some degree.

I think another huge privacy/hacking target is all those millions of connected "smart" IoT devices, including cloud cameras, heart/baby monitors, alarms/sensors, car computers, smart speakers, etc. distributed with very little scrutiny or security audits, often with gaping backdoors built in, readily handing out a peak into your private space/life to any company that creates enough buzz.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:34 pm

The take-off and power of intelligence/information gathering is getting scary.

Before the Prez election, I remember pointing out a few times about one of Trumps biggest donors....Mercer from Renaissance Technology.

And now in the midst of all this breach of info ...Cambridge Analytica...created by Robert Mercer.

Easto · Post by **Easto** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:09 pm

I guess what I was trying to say was that I think there are a LOT of people out there who live under the misconception that their internet activity is not be used, harvested or sold in one way or another. I guess the IoT and a refrigerator that tells you when your milk expires just adds to the information that is being passed around. Every email I send I treat as if someone who shouldn't see it... see's it and it could come back to bite me at a later day. I was even caught up in the Experian breach. I mean if they can't keep their files safe, I'm not expecting much more from COSTCO etc.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:48 am

Here's another point to ponder...

Alexa. Currently known as that Amazon toy adults purchase to have in the home, to talk to it. Play a song, interact with other smart home things, and getting to Amazons real goal..order stuff from Amazon with it (they're securing your sale).

But...let's back up a bit. Back in the 90's...the dial up days of Windows 95 computers, there was a company that came out with one of the first grand daddies of "tracking" programs. Called "Alexa Internet". 1996 "Alexa initially offered a toolbar that gave Internet users suggestions on where to go next, based on the traffic patterns of its user community."

Back then, the Alexa toolbar was one of the early "adware" programs that we would clean up. Back in the early days of malware/adware cleaning programs would see it and remove it, such as Lavasofts Adaware, and the early Spybot S&D programs.

In 1999, Amazon purchased the company.

...and now we have this thing that sits in many users homes. It may or may not be coincidence that Amazon broke into the top 5 companies in the world less than 2x years after they released that Alexa home appliance.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:49 am

Easto wrote: I was even caught up in the Experian breach. I mean if they can't keep their files safe, I'm not expecting much more from COSTCO etc.

How about the "Last Pass" breach? Ya know..that secure password storing service? I know..the breach was just usernames and salts...not the actual passwords, but still..it's a shot across the bow.

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:00 am

You guys aren't going deep enough... Millions to Billions almost overnight... Just from ads... How much have you ever paid to use FB?

With all of the facial recognition software that the gov is using, putting up cameras in all of the major cities, all it needed was a data base... Keep posting selfies, providing contact info, friends, hang-outs and such...

Soon when you get pulled over by the po-po, they will know where you are coming from, who was with you, how long you were there...

"I just left my house, officer"! "Wrong, you were at Kelly's bar and grill for 3 hours and I don't think eating was the only thing that you were doing for that long... Step out of the car for a breathalyzer test"...
Just wait for it as it won't be long, and that is just one example...

Post by **Philip** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:47 am

Hi Ken

Yeah, we give away a bit of our privacy every day it seems. Our own parents didn't know what we were up to as kids, nowadays every movement is tracked and analyzed. I will go put on my tinfoil hat before I go to a strip club from now on

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:17 am

Ken wrote:You guys aren't going deep enough... .

You asking MadDoc that question?

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:33 am

Are you still using tinfoil?????? That is so 20th century!! Step up to better metal alloys!

Everything that is said or typed is archived... Never say or type anything that you would not say in front of a judge...

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:33 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote:You asking MadDoc that question?

Maybe...

Are you jealous???????//////////

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:50 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:You asking MadDoc that question?

Yes. Yes he is.

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:55 pm

Ken wrote:Maybe... Are you jealous???????//////////

You know he's jealous. My toes are quivering with excitement (which feels real real good!!!)!

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:56 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:You asking MadDoc that question?

Nice...

Easto · Post by **Easto** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:42 pm

Soon the NSA may request copies/recordings of your voice that were harvested while using Alexa. They will search your Costco shopping habits and find out you buy the 1.75 ltr bottles of Grey Goose every other week. While at the same time you're telling your doctor you don't drink. Next think you know, you health insurance premiums go up. Those are some of the things I'm worried about. I couldn't care less if they know I frequent this forum, search for boots at REI or that I'm looking for a new car.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:46 am

Amazon Alexa will tell them we have loud sex, and I'm also really noisy when taking a dump on the can.

Easto · Post by **Easto** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:28 am

Wow, I wonder if that would be considered a threesome?

Just wait until it starts to mimic you and asks you questions at various times of the day. If it said the wrong thing at the wrong time I might have some explaining to do, LOL.

TonyT · Post by **TonyT** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:55 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Here's another point to ponder...

Alexa. Currently known as that Amazon toy adults purchase to have in the home, to talk to it. Play a song, interact with other smart home things, and getting to Amazons real goal..order stuff from Amazon with it (they're securing your sale).

But...let's back up a bit. Back in the 90's...the dial up days of Windows 95 computers, there was a company that came out with one of the first grand daddies of "tracking" programs. Called "Alexa Internet". 1996 "Alexa initially offered a toolbar that gave Internet users suggestions on where to go next, based on the traffic patterns of its user community."

Back then, the Alexa toolbar was one of the early "adware" programs that we would clean up. Back in the early days of malware/adware cleaning programs would see it and remove it, such as Lavasofts Adaware, and the early Spybot S&D programs.

In 1999, Amazon purchased the company.

...and now we have this thing that sits in many users homes. It may or may not be coincidence that Amazon broke into the top 5 companies in the world less than 2x years after they released that Alexa home appliance.

I remember that alexa toolbar. Disposed of many of them!

Nothing in my home with a built in microphone except my laptop.

You guys watch the HBO show Silicon Valley? Last episode was all about smart refrigerators recording everything and sending it to the cloud.

nightowl · Post by **nightowl** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:22 pm

skynet is coming!

bishnugupta · Post by **bishnugupta** » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:08 pm

Lol the testimony hearing seems like a bunch of grandparents trying to learn what internet is. Just a trend of few days things will be back to normal. Companies will keep collecting data, thats how it works.

Easto · Post by **Easto** » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:36 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Amazon Alexa will tell them we have loud sex

I don't think they save audio files shorter than 7 seconds.

nightowl · Post by **nightowl** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:41 am

Easto wrote:I don't think they save audio files shorter than 7 seconds.

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:16 am

Easto wrote:I don't think they save audio files shorter than 7 seconds.

Sweet burn!!!!!!!

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:56 pm

Easto wrote:I don't think they save audio files shorter than 7 seconds.

Ouch suckpump, thats going to leave a mark.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:27 am

7? You give me too much credit! Been known to be under 3 doing a rimshot on MadDoc.

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:45 pm

side topic -Banks track your purchases and create profiles on your shopping habits etc..

Easto · Post by **Easto** » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:23 am

Randy wrote:side topic -Banks track your purchases and create profiles on your shopping habits etc..

Actually, it's pretty much inline with the whole "harvesting" issue. I just think that it's rather funny that all these advertisers are trying to achieve and target an exact demographic, whether that be an age, brand, shopping habits etc. Although I'm sure it may benefit them in one way or another... I still think how they're missing the 1 main issue that 1 computer is used by multiple family members. When I use my wife's eyePad I'm always getting advertisements for all kinds of makeup offers (and they're not even my brand!, LOL). I'm about as interested in what Revlon has to sell as my wife is interested in the bicycle tire tubes I've been researching.

amandaperkins · Post by **amandaperkins** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:12 am

Right, Easto. The Internet is not a safe place nowadays to keep private information. And, there are clouds everywhere now. Everyone is allowing to store your data in the cloud that is not safe at all. They will have all the access to your contacts, images, videos whatever you put on it. Shame!

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:42 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:7? You give me too much credit! Been known to be under 3 doing a rimshot on MadDoc.

hayc59 · Post by **hayc59** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:22 pm

Yes!!

Post by **Philip** » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:29 am

MadDoctor wrote:

Happy cause admittedly you excite him faster?

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:56 pm

Facebook has already done their part, so why not Amazon...

https://gizmodo.com/amazon-shareholders ... 1826920326

David · Post by **David** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:34 pm

Utilizing echo chambers and troll-bots, they are controlling thoughts as well.

I feel a special blessing having got most of the online debating out of my system before FB

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:35 pm

Conspiracy theories? Ahhh
I always said the truth is stranger than fiction

jeremyboycool · Post by **jeremyboycool** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:30 pm

David wrote:Utilizing echo chambers and troll-bots, they are controlling thoughts as well.

I feel a special blessing having got most of the online debating out of my system before FB

I don't think that is necessarily true. We have to remember that correlation does not imply causation, and it may be that the most they can do is reinforce ideologies that already existed. Certainly propaganda can motivate people but how much and in what way is a hard thing to determine. It could be that what it mostly does is excite those who were already predisposed to its rhetoric.

Easto · Post by **Easto** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:10 pm

jeremyboycool wrote:We have to remember that correlation does not imply causation

You know, I was just starting to like you and then you say something like that.....

jeremyboycool · Post by **jeremyboycool** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:20 am

Confusing correlation and causation is the most common mistake in data science, by both the professional and the layperson, and so we should be cautious when drawing such conclusions. I have no doubt these data are being collected; however, collecting data and using them are two very different things, and I question how much influence they actually have. Propaganda is not a new concept, this is a different approach, but the base idea is not new, and I assume that propaganda has limits. I would just like to understand those limits better before concluding that they are using data science to control people's minds. I think statistics is great, I have nearly finished my degree in it, but people may be exaggerating its abilities. I would just like to understand the interaction of the data analysis and public opinion a bit better before concluding it as "controlling thoughts".